Demarion Watson

[Statefan10]

Without Milan we are absolutely missing a guard who can come off the bench and score. That’s a big hole. Curtis played all 40 minutes today. Had a career-high but he can’t play that much every game. With Heise in we’re basically playing 4-on-5 on offense, it’s like Tamin freshman year without the driving and finishing.

I really don't know if that's a hole though.. Curtis sure stepped up today, but when someone's injured let alone a starter, guys are going to have to step up. Today was obviously Curtis, no doubt about it. Few days ago it was Jefferson, who had his career night. But that's what really good teams do. Guys step up and that's what we're seeing. Curtis seems to be our anchor and that's okay. Ride the hot hand! He was 100% the reason why we won the game yesterday but Keshon absolutely took over for about 4 minutes scoring 7 straight of his own and having two steals to basically seal the deal. And Jefferson ended up with another double-double.

I think overall my point is that it is not an easy task to win games against quality teams, especially on the road. It's actually quite hard to win on the road lol. If the other team is solid and is playing well, you have to be a very good team to come out on top. I watched Duke today struggle and battle with Wake Forest who is 20 spots lower than ASU, and they found a way to win. Don't get upset that we weren't perfect, because we weren't. I'd be very excited that we won by 15 on the road against a hot team in a game where as a whole we didn't play that well.

We're 17-2, we're a legit team. Smile brotha. Go Cyclones.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Another very solid game with some really big plays by Demarion, but the one that stood out to me was a bit different- when he got called for the first half goaltend, I initially thought it was a bad call, but then his facial expression did not change even slightly, so I thought it must have been legit. Overturned later by official review.

 

[NoCreativity]

Where do you view metrics? On the season as a whole, the net adjusted team efficiency when each player on the floor is actually highest with Heise above everyone else. His BPR is 6th, ahead of Jackson, Chatfield, Watson and Nojus. This is per EvanMiya.

He clearly is not confident right now on offense, but the stats say when he has been on the court the team has played well.

On Torvick his total player rating or " Points Over Replacement Per Adjusted Game" and also his offensive total rating are the worst of anyone besides the 3 guys at the end of the bench.

About the only thing he does well is steals and "close 2s...aka....layups.

If you look at his D-PRPag which I assume is his total defensive rating then he's tied with Deshon as about the 6th best defensive player on the team. So he's decent but not quite the defensive stopper everyone is claiming.

Either way his numbers show he's not getting the job done right now, especially on offense. Watching him yesterday it now looks like he's transitioned into scared to shoot mode. We can't have that.

 

[OtownClone]

I do think the staff is in a position right now where they are having to choose between Watson and Heise for minutes. I hear the perspective that they play different positions, but realistically, Watson is not out of place guarding on the perimeter. He may sometimes allow drivers to get by him, but that can also be a choice to take advantage of his ridiculous wingspan and get blocks.
I like Heise's defense. I like his ball movement and offensive IQ. I like his steals and rebounding. He is a decent cutter. The guy seems like he is in his own head related to his shot. I don't love the form, but he has had decent results from 3 in the past (35+% over the last couple years he was healthy on 2.4 and 4.1 3-point attempts per game.) When he has been good earlier in the year, he seemed like such a huge upgrade for this team. We can't have him struggling this much offensively and be at our best. I can see what the staff saw in him and think getting him right is a big deal.
Watson on the other hand, may not have the previous performance of Heise, but his current performance, in a small sample size, has been better. If neither are regarded as shooters by the defense, it is not that hard to argue that increased size, athleticism, rebounding and rim protection are a positive add. Unfortunately, our offense just won't be what it could be if we have fewer shooters on the floor. We have great players that will make the best of it and still win a lot of games. I am not sure I see Watson as a solution to that problem. Heise seems more likely to right the ship on that front.
Watson could make a case to take some of Jackson or Chatfield's minutes, but they will always be needed to go against bigger 5's. It feels like a tough puzzle to put together for the staff regarding minutes right now.

 

[rosshm16]

He is a certified junkyard DOG. Even if he transfers next year I will cheer for him (except if at Iowa of course), guy is a great Cyclone.

 

[AuH2O]

I do think the staff is in a position right now where they are having to choose between Watson and Heise for minutes. I hear the perspective that they play different positions, but realistically, Watson is not out of place guarding on the perimeter. He may sometime allow drivers to get by him, but that can also be a choice to take advantage of his ridiculous wingspan and get blocks.
I like Heise's defense. I like his ball movement and offensive IQ. I like his steals and rebounding. He is a decent cutter. The guy seems like he is in his own head related to his shot. I don't love the form, but he has had decent results from 3 in the past (35+% over the last couple years he was healthy on 2.4 and 4.1 3-point attempts per game.) When he has been good earlier in the year, he seemed like such a huge upgrade for this team. We can't have him struggling this much offensively and be at our best. I can see what the staff saw in him and think getting him right is a big deal.
Watson on the other hand, may not have the previous performance of Heise, but his current performance, in a small sample size, has been better. If neither are regarded as shooters by the defense, it is not that hard to argue that increased size, athleticism, rebounding and rim protection are a positive add. Unfortunately, our offense just won't be what it could be if we have fewer shooters on the floor. We have great players that will make the best of it and still win a lot of games. I am not sure I see Watson as a solution to that problem. Heise seems more likely to right the ship on that front.
Watson could make a case to take some of Jackson or Chatfield's minutes, but they will always be needed to go against bigger 5's. It feels like a tough puzzle to put together for the staff regarding minutes right now.

Agree that DWs minutes are largely cutting into Chatfield at times, with JJ sliding to the 5 some.

Demarion is at his best as an athletic 4, and as an off the ball help defender that can erase drives. Yesterday and UCF he has struggled guarding wings that can put the ball on the floor.

But I like both guys playing at the very least to keep the Big 4s (CJ, JJ, KG, TL) minutes to an optimum level.

Due to his versatility when Milan is fully back, then the choice of minutes between Watson and Heise becomes more the case.

We will see how it plays out, but Demarion is making his case to get minutes here on out.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

I have no issues with one of the leading NPOY candidates playing 40 minutes for us.

 

[singsing]

Noncon use of Watson is a head scratcher the way he's looking on the court. Not saying he should start or be first off the bench, but getting nothing? Building cohesion with the new frontcourt? Depth at that position? Lots of things it could have been. Maybe he was getting some academics in order..who knows. I'm excited we can go that deep into our bench and have the quality of player Watson is. I've liked his game and attitude since day one. He's awesome at reading balls going up on the rim. Really hunts the ball and gets himself into good position early. Same on D. Excellent reaction and seems to be in the right spot. I do like the small ball lineup with Jefferson at the 5. I could see that being where Watson gets his minutes playing the 4 when Milan gets back.

 

[nrg4isu]

Noncon use of Watson is a head scratcher the way he's looking on the court. Not saying he should start or be first off the bench, but getting nothing? Building cohesion with the new frontcourt? Depth at that position? Lots of things it could have been. Maybe he was getting some academics in order..who knows. I'm excited we can go that deep into our bench and have the quality of player Watson is. I've liked his game and attitude since day one. He's awesome at reading balls going up on the rim. Really hunts the ball and gets himself into good position early. Same on D. Excellent reaction and seems to be in the right spot. I do like the small ball lineup with Jefferson at the 5. I could see that being where Watson gets his minutes playing the 4 when Milan gets back.

Well he did get bitten by a shark in Maui

 

[rosshm16]

Rumor has it the shark chipped off a few teeth in the endeavor.

 

[AuH2O]

On Torvick his total player rating or " Points Over Replacement Per Adjusted Game" and also his offensive total rating are the worst of anyone besides the 3 guys at the end of the bench.

About the only thing he does well is steals and "close 2s...aka....layups.

If you look at his D-PRPag which I assume is his total defensive rating then he's tied with Deshon as about the 6th best defensive player on the team. So he's decent but not quite the defensive stopper everyone is claiming.

Either way his numbers show he's not getting the job done right now, especially on offense. Watching him yesterday it now looks like he's transitioned into scared to shoot mode. We can't have that.

Interesting that these analytics can vary, as some of them are straightforward. EvanMiya has Heise as the 5th best DBPR and 7th best OBPR. These are stat based.

What those stats show is that we clearly have four guys that are way better than everyone else, then Milan, then there’s everybody else.

What I find interesting is the simple O, D and Overall team efficiency adjusted for competition. I like it because it’s about as straight a measure of how well the team plays when a guy is in. There’s a lot that can affect it, but when you are 20 games or more in and a lot of lineups have played, it’s going to indicate value. Regardless of what we fans see or think we are seeing, On the season the team has played really well with Heise on the floor.

 

[AuH2O]

Noncon use of Watson is a head scratcher the way he's looking on the court. Not saying he should start or be first off the bench, but getting nothing? Building cohesion with the new frontcourt? Depth at that position? Lots of things it could have been. Maybe he was getting some academics in order..who knows. I'm excited we can go that deep into our bench and have the quality of player Watson is. I've liked his game and attitude since day one. He's awesome at reading balls going up on the rim. Really hunts the ball and gets himself into good position early. Same on D. Excellent reaction and seems to be in the right spot. I do like the small ball lineup with Jefferson at the 5. I could see that being where Watson gets his minutes playing the 4 when Milan gets back.

Maybe, but we are able to look at this with the hindsight of Milan being out 4-6 weeks. There’s no way you adjust your non con prep that you don’t think is optimum just in case a starter goes out for several weeks. Once TJ decided the 8 man rotation he probably wanted it fine tuned and rolling from day one in conference. If you want a one seed you don’t have the luxury to be figuring things out yet in February unless you are forced by injury.

There’s also a bit of a factor that Watsons role is pretty defined and looks like it’s not changing from last year if called upon. There’s probably less upside to give him run vs trying to get all the new guys figuring out their roles in different lineups.

 

[BWRhasnoAC]

Maybe, but we are able to look at this with the hindsight of Milan being out 4-6 weeks. There’s no way you adjust your non con prep that you don’t think is optimum just in case a starter goes out for several weeks. Once TJ decided the 8 man rotation he probably wanted it fine tuned and rolling from day one in conference. If you want a one seed you don’t have the luxury to be figuring things out yet in February unless you are forced by injury.

There’s also a bit of a factor that Watsons role is pretty defined and looks like it’s not changing from last year if called upon. There’s probably less upside to give him run vs trying to get all the new guys figuring out their roles in different lineups.

His rebound rate alone warrants playing time IMO.

 

[Cloned4Life]

I do think the staff is in a position right now where they are having to choose between Watson and Heise for minutes. I hear the perspective that they play different positions, but realistically, Watson is not out of place guarding on the perimeter.

But the staff isn’t choosing between them. They are playing both, and often at the same time.
And yes, they do play different positions, are very different players stylistically and talent-skill wise, and both bring tremendous versatility on defense (Heise is 6-5 215, and is great against 1-4 at backside protection).

 

[singsing]

Maybe, but we are able to look at this with the hindsight of Milan being out 4-6 weeks. There’s no way you adjust your non con prep that you don’t think is optimum just in case a starter goes out for several weeks. Once TJ decided the 8 man rotation he probably wanted it fine tuned and rolling from day one in conference. If you want a one seed you don’t have the luxury to be figuring things out yet in February unless you are forced by injury.

There’s also a bit of a factor that Watsons role is pretty defined and looks like it’s not changing from last year if called upon. There’s probably less upside to give him run vs trying to get all the new guys figuring out their roles in different lineups.

I agree. It's a fine line for TJ to manage. Lots of factors. Stats are important. Looks good in the papers when you're showing good #'s. Lipsey isn't getting mentioned these days, but I'd consider him one of the most important players on the team. Anyway, Watson plays and somebody else isn't. I wouldn't play him over Milan or Jefferson so that's about all I need to know. If he's good with his roll that's great. I don't think we've seen the best version of Watson yet so hope he sticks around.

 

[flycy]

I would think it's pretty nuts to have Watson playing guard to give ISU's staring guards a spell or to disrupt opponents' backcourts but I'll eat crow if it happens and works.

You know you don't have to play 3 guards, right?

 

[twincyties]

You know you don't have to play 3 guards, right?

Of course you don’t have to. And the line between a guard and a forward in basketball has been blurred for years. Milan is a perfect example.

You can call them what you want. By position or by number.

But we are unlikely to run Watson out there either two other bigs unless it’s a response to other team “going big”. It is obviously not TJs preference. I suspect because we’d be too limited offensively.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Don't think Its possible

Maybe Heise is better in practice than Watson but I think its pretty clear that he is better than Heise on gameday. Pretty sure a good coaching staff (we have a good one) can make that observation and adjust.

They bring different things. We’re going to need both, and for them to play well when called on, to win 4 to 6 straight games in March.

Heise needs to be a quality 3 and D guard that can step in for Gilbert, Jones, and Milan. Particularly when Milan is struggling to defend. Or when we’re looking for another shooter/scorer because others are in a slump shooting. He’s capable of doing that, just keep getting him confident/comfortable

Watson needs to be that athletic 3/4 that can defend/rebound when we face length and athleticism on the perimeter, or need to be able to switch everything. Similar to Illinois last year. Also help our ability to finish on our drives with his athleticism.

IMO Watson being able to play high level minutes is more important because he’s more unique on our roster. Worth investing some minutes in both, but especially Watson imo

 

[twincyties]

I see we’re still here comparing players with completely different skills sets

 

[Cymark86]

I have no issues with one of the leading NPOY candidates playing 40 minutes for us.

Nope. But overtime I worry if it catches up to us. But, end of day you got to have your best guys out there. Right now, he’s not replaceable.