Big XII vs. Big 10

[HFCS]

Iowa had a realistic shot at a football national title in 2009 until Stanzi went down. Just as much of a shot as isu bball.

They're different animals, the 4 team playoff probably doesn't help not just Iowa, but the Big Ten in general's chances at NCs.

In basketball it's pretty clear ISU '00 and '14 had the best shot the state has seen in a while (since the olson/raveling/early davis years) ISU finished ranked #3 in '00 and was in the top ten of the final AP poll this year. In football '02 Iowa and '09 Iowa had a legit chance with some different breaks. Going forward those same football teams would have needed the same breaks, then beat two likely southern football powers. Consider the USC bowl loss hypothetical round one because that could easily have been a 2/3 seed game.

I think Iowa's basketball NC chances might be better than their football one with the direction things are going.

 

[deanvogs]

Massey rankings show that at the end of the season that the B1G was the strongest conference. This is taking into account 55 different matrix (#1 in 33 of the 55).

http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

I think if you look at the massey rankings, and the NCAA tourney results, there really isn't much left to debate. I'm not sure what the big deal is here though. ISU was obviously a much better team in a very good conference than Iowa was in the B1G.

 

[mikeiastat]

Massey rankings show that at the end of the season that the B1G was the strongest conference. This is taking into account 55 different matrix (#1 in 33 of the 55).

http://www.masseyratings.com/cb/compare.htm

I think if you look at the massey rankings, and the NCAA tourney results, there really isn't much left to debate. I'm not sure what the big deal is here though. ISU was obviously a much better team in a very good conference than Iowa was in the B1G.

Again, not really surprising that the numbers would have the big pulling ahead against a decimated Big XII. Take an all American candidate out and 2 all conference candidates out right at the start of the tourney for the big 10 instead of adding an All American Candidate, at tourney time and see how the numbers change. Throughout the year, the Big XII was stronger top to bottom. The Big 10 was massively top heavy, and those top heavy teams got healthy at the right time.

The top 3 in the BIG are having a good tourney, that doesn't stop the rest of the league from sucking. As I've said all year, Iowa and OSU massively over rated. Top three are legit. But to say that the BIG had to face this MSU team all year is a joke. Even Michigan had some gelling to do with losing McGary. I've been on every bad comment about Wisc on this board this year, and I hate the Badgers. I really don't think that Iowa gets more than 7 wins if schedules were reversed.

To say there no debate left is just flat out stupid. If KU and ISU are full strength they are right there if not better than the top 3 in the BIG. Now consider the drop off in the Big and the fact that more than half the league was just garbage. League strength isn't just how the top does. Other than injuries. Both leagues have done almost exactly what they were expected to do.

 

[JUKEBOX]

How bout this.

Iowa State > Big 10

 

[jabalke]

Leave the Conference masturbating to the Hawkeyes. "Look at all of these great teams we lost to. That makes us an elite team, right?" We're above this.

 

[HFCS]

Leave the Conference masturbating to the Hawkeyes. "Look at all of these great teams we lost to. That makes us an elite team, right?" We're above this.

I think it might have forced me to mature a little in my fandom. I've touted the Big 12's football superiority a few times when our season hasn't gone well. I'll probably stfu at least in the near future when that happens.

Not saying that all records are equal regardless of SOS, but if ISU misses a bowl game or miss the round of 64 it probably doesn't matter how good our conference may have been.

 

[Dreamyfred]

This would be a great point if Michigan weren't missing their pre-season All American and Michigan State has a couple guys that are barely to the point of healthy.

Michigan had all season to adapt without McGary, and MSU is healthy. Nice try Mr Hawkeye guy!

 

[SplitIdentity]

I think it might have forced me to mature a little in my fandom. I've touted the Big 12's football superiority a few times when our season hasn't gone well. I'll probably stfu at least in the near future when that happens.

Not saying that all records are equal regardless of SOS, but if ISU misses a bowl game or miss the round of 64 it probably doesn't matter how good our conference may have been.

Same here. Been a part of many of these arguments. But at some point, I'd rather rely on my team doing well rather than the conference. Conference strength is just a cheap way of piggy backing on the success of other teams.

 

[AmesHawk]

Leave the Conference masturbating to the Hawkeyes. "Look at all of these great teams we lost to. That makes us an elite team, right?" We're above this.

:biglaugh: Please tell me this is sarcasm. God, I might have to change my sig to this in preparation for football season.

Anyway... great season for ISU. Definitely will be a fun one for fans to remember. Also a tough one, as the question of what might have been without an injury will always remain.

 

[mikeiastat]

This would be a great point if Michigan weren't missing their pre-season All American and Michigan State has a couple guys that are barely to the point of healthy.

I would say the timing of McGary's injury would actually mean that Michigan's games that were effected most by the injury were in the BIG 10. Therefore. The Big 10 didn't have to face as good of a Michigan team as ISU, Arizona, Duke and the teams that Played them in the tournament. McGary's injury is just further argument for an inflated BIG SOS. The loss was most prominant at the start of the BIG.

 

[Stormin]

The big 12's top 2 teams both had pretty major injuries to overcome. Not to mention the big 12 got hosed on seeding, with only one team seeded to go to the elite 8(Compared to 2 for the B10).

Had Niang/Embiid not gone down I think the B12 had a great shot at getting 2 teams into the elite 8.

This. Anyone who does not things would be different without those injuries is smoking crack. ISU and Kansas could have possibly both made the Final Four. Then what would be said.

 

[CYphyllis]

As much as I hate to admit it as a Big XII fan, it is pretty clear the Big 10 ended up being the better league the last few years. They have 3 - Elite 8 teams compared to zero for the Big XII.

Makes me really, really sad.

Stealing your logic I'd assume those B10 teams that made it this far are just lucky, right?

Who the **** are you trying to kid.

 

[Doc]

The top of the B1G is looking real tough, and I'm really cheering against the all B1G/SEC Final 4. Not because I give a **** about conference strength, but because a Wisconsin, Kentucky, Florida, and MSU Final 4 bores me.

 

[HFCS]

Same here. Been a part of many of these arguments. But at some point, I'd rather rely on my team doing well rather than the conference. Conference strength is just a cheap way of piggy backing on the success of other teams.

It's especially meaningless when the Big 12 and Big Ten are both almost always in the top 4 in both major sports. It's not like Iowa is playing CUSA football and ISU is playing CUSA basketball. It's safe to say the Big 12 has been a little better at football and the Big Ten a little better at basketball but we're splitting hairs most of the time.

Easy for me to say right now, but hopefully I'm done with that argument when ISU football struggles against a usual football grind. Talking up an 8-4 or even 7-5 team that played a tough schedule is different than talking up a 3-9 team that played a tough schedule.

 

[CyHawk7]

Leave the Conference masturbating to the Hawkeyes. "Look at all of these great teams we lost to. That makes us an elite team, right?" We're above this.

Tell that to the Iowa State football die hards. Sorry but they have this argument down to a T. Aaron white did take a step further though when saying he's tired of losing to teams Iowa is better than. While the Iowa team and fans have been somewhat laughable down the stretch don't act like we don't have fans that do the exact same thing in football.

 

[CyHawk7]

The top of the B1G is looking real tough, and I'm really cheering against the all B1G/SEC Final 4. Not because I give a **** about conference strength, but because a Wisconsin, Kentucky, Florida, and MSU Final 4 bores me.

Wisconsin won't be in the final 4. The other 3 teams are pretty fun to watch I don't know why you would find them boring. I love watching MSU.

 

[Doc]

Wisconsin won't be in the final 4. The other 3 teams are pretty fun to watch I don't know why you would find them boring. I love watching MSU.

Yeah, and Michigan alone is carrying the torch of offense first teams now that ISU is out. Wisky is only one I want to lose. I'd liked a Florida-MSU, Arizona-Michigan Final 4 as long as it doesn't end in an all-Michigan final.

 

[HFCS]

Wisconsin won't be in the final 4. The other 3 teams are pretty fun to watch I don't know why you would find them boring. I love watching MSU.

Kentucky could be as talented as their recent title team every year and I'd still be much more interested in watching other NCAA teams who haven't been in the Final Four lately. When I want to watch fast exciting basketball with talented players I watch the NBA playoffs, when I want to watch drama and upsets I watch the NCAA tournament. The NCAA tournament 68 team format and my devotion to ISU is the only thing that keeps me watching the slow version of televised basketball.

UK, Michigan and MSU are talented teams, they're not remotely more fun to watch than Heat, Thunder, Pacers and Spurs. Just my opinion.

 

[DurangoCy]

I'm amazed that people care about this sort of thing still.

Like

 

[SammyWild]

I think it might have forced me to mature a little in my fandom. I've touted the Big 12's football superiority a few times when our season hasn't gone well. I'll probably stfu at least in the near future when that happens.

Not saying that all records are equal regardless of SOS, but if ISU misses a bowl game or miss the round of 64 it probably doesn't matter how good our conference may have been.

It is different in Iowa State's case because of the true round robin schedule the big 12 plays though.