Big-12 / Pac-12 possible merger

[cymonw1980]

At this point, I'm all for just a straight merger of the PAC and the remaining 8 rather than some scheduling thing. Is it as ideal as us going to the Big 10? No, but it seems much more likely. Also, at this point in time, I'm just more concerned about being in the club rather than out of it in order to align us best for the next big shift in college athletics. If this thing is all going to end in a big 64 team league, being in is more key to me than being on the fringe with some scheduling deal.

right… but that may not be the choice. I think everyone would agree if the pac is the best option available you go. The problem is, I don’t think the pac will offer a full merger. I don’t think bay, tcu, wvu would get offers… I could be wrong, but this will come down to money and brands… usc and other pac brands need a rea$onto stay. So, if the pac isn’t adding a brand that brings money, they may look at a schedule alliance that adds quality games to the schedule without splitting up conf payouts. Not as good an option for the 8, but better than nothing.

 

[k123]

I think Big 12 (minus WVU) and Pac 12 DO combine as a "National" Western conference to have scope compared to expanded SEC/ACC/Big 10.

However Pac 12 also lose some "marquee" members to Big Ten (who also expand truly national - pick up Stanford, USC or UCLA, Washington and/or Oregon from Pac 12, try to add Notre Dame...The whole streaming vs geography argument, and Big 10 wants the premier/peer/flagship AAU schools and consistent with their (and Notre Dame's) old "west coast tours" heritage that preceded the Rose Bowl.)

So this combined Big12Pac12 "BigWest20 Conference" has to add BYU and some of Boise St/Utah St/Colo St/Air Force/Houston/SMU.

It was nice being the I-35 Conference...

Then pods like here:

PAC-12 goes with safety in #'s and adds remaining Big members (minus West Va) + BYU to form the PAC-20

They do 5, 4-team PODS that look something like this:
Oregon, Oregon St, Wash, Wash St
USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford
CU, BYU, Utah, & Kansas
Texas Tech, TCU, Arizona, ASU
Baylor, Iowa St, Kansas St, Okie St

You'd have to get a FOX Sports TV deal and all sign an astronomically long (20+ years) and penalty filled Grant of Rights to build trust and stability.

Then, your FB schedule looks something like: Play everyone in your pod (3 games) Play 2 other pods (8 games) every other year Play 1 FCS game. Iowa games goes away. It sucks but we need long-term stability more than that game. The scheduling is workable. Maybe you play 1.5 pods every year so you play 9 conferences games. Whatever.

11 conference games is a lot but it makes scheduling easier and creates unity and a unique brand. "We're going to play each other." Embrace PAC-20 after dark and get auto bid plus 1 at-large every year into 12 team playoff. Avoid irrelevancy.

Championship game in Vegas.

Discuss....

 

[Cycsk]

I don't know much about the politics of the Pac-12. Surely there are institutions with big egos, but are there any with conference power comparable to Texas and Oklahoma?

 

[JM4CY]

I don't know much about the politics of the Pac-12. Surely there are institutions with big egos, but are there any with conference power comparable to Texas and Oklahoma?

There is no way any school has an ego quite like Texas.

 

[dualthreat]

If the conference becomes PAC 12 + Big 12-4+2-2 + UCF and Houston, we could name the conference the National Collegiate Athletic Association, or "NCAA" for short. I hear that acronym may soon become available.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

right… but that may not be the choice. I think everyone would agree if the pac is the best option available you go. The problem is, I don’t think the pac will offer a full merger. I don’t think bay, tcu, wvu would get offers… I could be wrong, but this will come down to money and brands… usc and other pac brands need a rea$onto stay. So, if the pac isn’t adding a brand that brings money, they may look at a schedule alliance that adds quality games to the schedule without splitting up conf payouts. Not as good an option for the 8, but better than nothing.

Pac 12 has 12 teams so they could easily pick up ISU, TT, KU, KSU, OSU and TCU to get to 18. Not sure they want a religious school like Baylor or a school in the eastern time zone like WV along with their poor academics. TCU is becoming more secular the past decade so they would be a good fit and brings along the Dallas Metroplex.

Take Colorado and Utah with one of the Arizona teams and you have 2 nine team divisions or do 3 pods of six teams, to cut travel.
If you do the pods, that would be 5 games from you pod and then 2 from each of the other two pods for a 9 game schedule. Rotating the other pods and you are playing everyone in the conference every 3 years and hosting everyone every 6 years.

 

[JM4CY]

Have we really talked enough about the potential AAU requirement for PAC membership or am I missing something and it’s not a thing like it is with the BIG?

 

[isucy86]

I would be hard pressed to believe the Pac12 & Big12 discussions centered on a merger unless there is no value for the Big10/SEC of schools like USC, Oregon, Stanford and Washington.

IMO the more likely topic of conversation is leveraging the Pac12 Network in 2022 to 2024 if OuT find a way to play in the SEC a year from now.

 

[drmwevr08]

At some point there is strength in numbers and this 20 would have that. Its hard to say though when the big money jumping stops and the rest have to settle into something less glamourous but still stable because there's a lot of solid inventory that fans will still watch. I guess I'm joining the camp that says there are only so many brands out there and only one SEC so eventually a lot of schools more like us will be looking to carry on. I'm not sure that partnership can be cemented though until the nonsense stops.

 

[Cyclonepride]

Have we really talked enough about the potential AAU requirement for PAC membership or am I missing something and it’s not a thing like it is with the BIG?

There are already a few members of the PAC 12 that aren't AAU.

Account Suspended

 

[CycoCyclone]

I'm fairly certain that Oregon thinks pretty highly of itself, based on the fan reactions to the Fiesta bowl.

USC will forever live in their glory days like Nebbie

 

[cyIclSoneU]

right… but that may not be the choice. I think everyone would agree if the pac is the best option available you go. The problem is, I don’t think the pac will offer a full merger. I don’t think bay, tcu, wvu would get offers… I could be wrong, but this will come down to money and brands… usc and other pac brands need a rea$onto stay. So, if the pac isn’t adding a brand that brings money, they may look at a schedule alliance that adds quality games to the schedule without splitting up conf payouts. Not as good an option for the 8, but better than nothing.

If the Pac-12 is only taking some Big 12 teams then WVU (geography), TCU and Baylor (religious and small fanbases) are likely to be first cuts. That leaves 5 schools and taking 4 makes the most sense. The smallest fanbase of the 5 is also in a state that would have to be shared and is the worst school of the 5. K-State would get left out and Tech, OSU, KU, and ISU would join the Pac-16.

 

[Go2Guy]

Perhaps I'll finally get to see my 'Clones play a game in the Rose Bowl Stadium!

And think about the possibility how the Rose Bowl pairs Pac12 - BIG teams, it's a dream to dream that we get Iowa on New Year's Day!

And finally, looks like USC get's to sell booze at their LA Memorial Coliseum games, which makes the long road trips tolerable:

USC to sell beer and wine during home football games at the Coliseum

USC announced it will expand beer and wine sales to all fans at home football games this season for the first time since 2004.

www.latimes.com

 

[CyrideAllstar]

I'm fairly certain that Oregon thinks pretty highly of itself, based on the fan reactions to the Fiesta bowl.

USC will forever live in their glory days like Nebbie

I thought the Oregon fans seemed pretty classy.

 

[Mesaclone1]

If the Pac-12 is only taking some Big 12 teams then WVU (geography), TCU and Baylor (religious and small fanbases) are likely to be first cuts. That leaves 5 schools and taking 4 makes the most sense. The smallest fanbase of the 5 is also in a state that would have to be shared and is the worst school of the 5. K-State would get left out and Tech, OSU, KU, and ISU would join the Pac-16.

Or....you keep K-State and TCU and go to a 3 pod system of 6 teams each. Conference championship participation going to the 2 highest ranked of the 3 pod winners.

Something like this:

Pod 1 (Coastal Pod)		Pod 2 (Rocky Mtn Pod)		Pod 2 (Great plains Pod)
Cal		Stanford		Kansas
Oregon		Oregon State		Kansas State
USC		UCLA		Oklahoma State
Colorado		Utah		Iowa State
Washington		Washington State		TCU
Arizona		Arizona State		Texas Tech
*Guaranteed rival matchups between Pod 1 and Pod 2. Those teams play each other every year.
**All teams play 2 teams from each of the other pods every year.
***Pod 3 rotates down a line every 2 years to create new matchups.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

I would be hard pressed to believe the Pac12 & Big12 discussions centered on a merger unless there is no value for the Big10/SEC of schools like USC, Oregon, Stanford and Washington.

IMO the more likely topic of conversation is leveraging the Pac12 Network in 2022 to 2024 if OuT find a way to play in the SEC a year from now.

There is value to the Big 10 to bring in those 4 schools, but do those school want to be in a conference with the closest school is 2,000 miles away? Even with a four team pod system that still means 2 or 3 trips a year to the Central and Eastern time zones, plus it would end up costing those schools a fortune for the other sports.
Also for every glamor game with Ohio State and Penn. State you have two or more with Rutgers, Purdue and the rest of the schools.

If they merge with the remaining Big 12 schools, that cuts down their trips to the Central time zone, no eastern time zone trips without WV to once a year during football season, and then 3 or 4 during BB season.
Plus they get to run the league like they are now instead of just being another school in the conference, something that OU and UT are going to quickly learn.

 

[OregonCyclone]

When talking through potential divisions and pods if a Big-12/Pac-12 merger should happen, remember that California is a vitally important, fertile recruiting ground for the eight non-California members. In the current alignment, the four Pacific Northwest members are paired with Stanford and Cal, playing one at home and one on the road every year. The Arizona members, Utah, and Colorado are paired with USC and UCLA, playing one at home and one away every year. All members play at least one away game against a California team in the opposite division at least every other year.

This exposure in California is absolutely essential to every team's recruiting. Persuading the non-California members to give up games in California to play Big-12 teams will be a very tough sell. Any division/pod alignment would have to take this into consideration.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

When talking through potential divisions and pods if a Big-12/Pac-12 merger should happen, remember that California is a vitally important, fertile recruiting ground for the eight non-California members. In the current alignment, the four Pacific Northwest members are paired with Stanford and Cal, playing one at home and one on the road every year. The Arizona members, Utah, and Colorado are paired with USC and UCLA, playing one at home and one away every year. All members play at least one away game against a California team in the opposite division at least every other year.

This exposure in California is absolutely essential to every team's recruiting. Persuading the non-California members to give up games in California to play Big-12 teams will be a very tough sell. Any division/pod alignment would have to take this into consideration.

I agree which is why I think a Pac-16 would be more likely to be a pod system than a 16-team B1G would be.

1. Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St
2. Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA,
3. Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Arizona St
4. Iowa St, Kansas, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech

Play your full pod plus 2 of the 4 teams in each of the other 4 pods. Top 2 conference records play CCG.

Every non-CA school gets 1 game in California each year and another game at home vs. a California team. You could easily arrange it so that the game in California alternates between Bay Area and LA every year for every school in the conference.

And most of the intra-pod games in Pod 4 kick off at 11:00 AM Central to make use of that Central Time Zone addition.

 

[SEIOWA CLONE]

Or....you keep K-State and TCU and go to a 3 pod system of 6 teams each. Conference championship participation going to the 2 highest ranked of the 3 pod winners.

Something like this:

Pod 1 (Coastal Pod)		Pod 2 (Rocky Mtn Pod)		Pod 2 (Great plains Pod)
Cal		Stanford		Kansas
Oregon		Oregon State		Kansas State
USC		UCLA		Oklahoma State
Colorado		Utah		Iowa State
Washington		Washington State		TCU
Arizona		Arizona State		Texas Tech
*Guaranteed rival matchups between Pod 1 and Pod 2. Those teams play each other every year.
**All teams play 2 teams from each of the other pods every year.
***Pod 3 rotates down a line every 2 years to create new matchups.

Not sure you want to put your 3 elite teams in the same division, with USC, Oregon and Washington. Even with a protected game every year, to do this would also require a 10 game conference season for all schools, do they want to go to that many?

I like the pods, but keep the Big 12 pod, split the Mt states pod with CO, Utah, the 2 Arizona schools and USC and UCLA, then the rest in the Northern part. Oregon, O. st, Washington W. ST, Cal and Stanford. no protected games and play every team in the other pod every three years, host every six.

 

[Cyclonepride]

There is value to the Big 10 to bring in those 4 schools, but do those school want to be in a conference with the closest school is 2,000 miles away? Even with a four team pod system that still means 2 or 3 trips a year to the Central and Eastern time zones, plus it would end up costing those schools a fortune for the other sports.
Also for every glamor game with Ohio State and Penn. State you have two or more with Rutgers, Purdue and the rest of the schools.

If they merge with the remaining Big 12 schools, that cuts down their trips to the Central time zone, no eastern time zone trips without WV to once a year during football season, and then 3 or 4 during BB season.
Plus they get to run the league like they are now instead of just being another school in the conference, something that OU and UT are going to quickly learn.

I don't think the Big Ten taking PAC 12 teams makes sense on any level whatsoever. Not for the Big Ten, not for the PAC 12.