Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[knowlesjam]

So where in the contract does it state that there is a guaranteed spot in the cfp for the big 12 champion?

There isn't, just as there isn't a guaranteed spot for any of the P5 conferences in the current 4-team CFP...even the SEC. Any talk of a guaranteed spot in the CFP would have to be part of a new CFP, expanded such that named conferences receive a guaranteed spot. Obviously, the SEC wants the CFP expanded to 12 or more...and it would have been approved if the whole OuT thing hadn't been OuTed. The other P5 conferences likely want to settle on a CFP that doesn't give an edge to the SEC.

By the way, per ratings and actual fan attendance, the "new" Big 12 is the #3 conference in the P5...not the ACC or the PAC 12. I think the PAC 12 is going to be really disappointed when the initial media pricing comes out in 2 years...their performance thus far this year couldn't come at a worse time.

 

[Cyclones1969]

How so? NBC put ND on Peacock to try to grow the subscriber base? Can’t compare that to ESPN Plus at all.

Kansas basketball played on ESPN Plus - same thing.

who did notre dame play on peacock?

was it a big game, With potential bowl seeding implications?

and ask Kansas basketball fans their opinions on the conference taking 4 of their games and putting them on plus to try to help espn.

 

[Cyclones1969]

There isn't, just as there isn't a guaranteed spot for any of the P5 conferences in the current 4-team CFP...even the SEC. Any talk of a guaranteed spot in the CFP would have to be part of a new CFP, expanded such that named conferences receive a guaranteed spot. Obviously, the SEC wants the CFP expanded to 12 or more...and it would have been approved if the whole OuT thing hadn't been OuTed. The other P5 conferences likely want to settle on a CFP that doesn't give an edge to the SEC.

By the way, per ratings and actual fan attendance, the "new" Big 12 is the #3 conference in the P5...not the ACC or the PAC 12. I think the PAC 12 is going to be really disappointed when the initial media pricing comes out in 2 years...their performance thus far this year couldn't come at a worse time.

It will be very interesting how their negotiations go.

everyone keeps saying it will be a low number, I hope they’re right. They will definitely set the market for the big aac in ‘25

 

[NetflixAndClone]

Actually, that is great in that you won't go years without playing a team. If you miss them this year, you will see them the next 2. And you will go home-away-skip, and right back to it. So you will have them in your house every 3rd year. Love that.

Question becomes, how do you do the CCG? Do you make it 4 teams, can you get away with that? Obviously lots of cash if you can.
If you do 2 teams, then how? Take the 2 best division winners? If 2, do you use rankings to try help your CFP contenders? Or do you have tie breakers like head to head, etc? Will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

I think you just take 1 and 2 no matter if they are from the same division or not. Sometimes a team might get lucky and miss the best teams to make it to the CCG. Thats the breaks though when you have big conferences.

 

[Yellow Snow]

who did notre dame play on peacock?

was it a big game, With potential bowl seeding implications?

and ask Kansas basketball fans their opinions on the conference taking 4 of their games and putting them on plus to try to help espn.

What do you propose Iowa State should do? Right now, at this moment in time?

Please answer, because you are ******** about a situation (might stink) that Iowa State has no control over. I get it that you don't like this... I don't either. But WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?

That's where the whiney child reference to you is coming from.


FYI

 

[Cyclones1969]

What do you propose Iowa State should do? Right now, at this moment in time?

Please answer, because you are ******** about a situation (that might stink) that Iowa State has no control over. I get it that you don't like this... I don't either. But WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT?

That's where the whiney child reference to you is coming from.


FYI

Be ready to donate more to the AD to make up the shortage.

 

[Yellow Snow]

Be ready to donate more to the AD to make up the shortage.

That is probably the correct answer... well, it IS the correct answer.

I guess my point was that it doesn't do anybody any good to dwell on it continuously. Trust me, I wish things were different, but at the moment they are not. I've learned over the years that it isn't worth it to dwell on negatives you can't change. No matter what you do, it isn't going to change. Healthier for me to just roll with the punches and see what happens. I try to look on the bright side of the **** sandwich. If it offends you (it seems to offend you if somebody is trying to be positive), that is fine. You do you.

Just my 2 cents....

 

[Win5002]

There isn't, just as there isn't a guaranteed spot for any of the P5 conferences in the current 4-team CFP...even the SEC. Any talk of a guaranteed spot in the CFP would have to be part of a new CFP, expanded such that named conferences receive a guaranteed spot. Obviously, the SEC wants the CFP expanded to 12 or more...and it would have been approved if the whole OuT thing hadn't been OuTed. The other P5 conferences likely want to settle on a CFP that doesn't give an edge to the SEC.

By the way, per ratings and actual fan attendance, the "new" Big 12 is the #3 conference in the P5...not the ACC or the PAC 12. I think the PAC 12 is going to be really disappointed when the initial media pricing comes out in 2 years...their performance thus far this year couldn't come at a worse time.

I'm convinced the make up of the ACC will change in 2-5 yrs and I think a better than 50% chance the PAC changes by the next tv deal.

But even in the current makeup the depth of teams or the median games tv ratings will be better in the new B12 if they are given the time slot/promotion to compete. It just doesn't have the blueblood at the top to generate top rated games 4M or more. The ACC only has Clemson or FSU that can generate numbers substantially above the B12, and those games have to be against each other, ND or possibly the exception to the rule where Miami or Va. Tech is a top national team.

If USC is really good they are the only school in the PAC that can produce elite ratings. Although, Oregon, UW & UCLA under the right circumstances will probably still produce above the top B12 games, against each other if both are highly rated or if they get a premium non-conference game like Or vs OSU.

But I don't think the ACC or PAC will have those top teams after 2-3 yrs.

 

[WhoISthis]

There isn't, just as there isn't a guaranteed spot for any of the P5 conferences in the current 4-team CFP...even the SEC. Any talk of a guaranteed spot in the CFP would have to be part of a new CFP, expanded such that named conferences receive a guaranteed spot. Obviously, the SEC wants the CFP expanded to 12 or more...and it would have been approved if the whole OuT thing hadn't been OuTed. The other P5 conferences likely want to settle on a CFP that doesn't give an edge to the SEC.

By the way, per ratings and actual fan attendance, the "new" Big 12 is the #3 conference in the P5...not the ACC or the PAC 12. I think the PAC 12 is going to be really disappointed when the initial media pricing comes out in 2 years...their performance thus far this year couldn't come at a worse time.

That’s what we’re talking about- an expanded playoffs. When they expand, the Big 12 will have an auto. Everyone wants the playoffs to expand, and they can’t without getting the votes. I’m not sure why that one poster has such a struggle comprehending that.

Likely more than 1 when/if the ACC and Pac12 lose teams to the BIG/SEC. As you sayid, the new Big 12 is well positioned to be #3. And once the ACC and Pac12 lose teams, it’s going to be a great conference for an emerging program like Iowa St to be in.

 

[Win5002]

I think you just take 1 and 2 no matter if they are from the same division or not. Sometimes a team might get lucky and miss the best teams to make it to the CCG. Thats the breaks though when you have big conferences.

hopefully, we are headed towards the elimination of bowl games and towards expanded conference playoffs. Leagues can be creative and leave the last game of the season as a floating game to start the first round of conference playoffs. Teams that don't make the conference playoffs get assigned a matchup and teams that do make the playoffs begin if the number of games are an issue.

If leagues are 16, its at least 4 maybe 6. If leagues get to 20 or more I could see even 8. Do some type of revenue sharing of tickets that last week of the season.

All of those games would be SO MUCH more compelling than bowl games. These would be must see.

 

[WhoISthis]

​

I'm convinced the make up of the ACC will change in 2-5 yrs and I think a better than 50% chance the PAC changes by the next tv deal.

​

But even in the current makeup the depth of teams or the median games tv ratings will be better in the new B12 if they are given the time slot/promotion to compete. It just doesn't have the blueblood at the top to generate top rated games 4M or more. The ACC only has Clemson or FSU that can generate numbers substantially above the B12, and those games have to be against each other, ND or possibly the exception to the rule where Miami or Va. Tech is a top national team.

If USC is really good they are the only school in the PAC that can produce elite ratings. Although, Oregon, UW & UCLA under the right circumstances will probably still produce above the top B12 games, against each other if both are highly rated or if they get a premium non-conference game like Or vs OSU.

But I don't think the ACC or PAC will have those top teams after 2-3 yrs.

Agree. We may prefer to have OuT and arguably competing to be the most difficult conference some years, but the Big 12 3.0 is still setup to be #3, more entertaining parity, and has the most stability of the non-P2s.

The Pac12 are ratings disasters and increasingly forgotten, but the ACC is perhaps even more on the brink than the Pac12 since there isn’t the geographical isolation. They’d likely already be the Big 12 had Clemson’s hiring of a Dabo not been a successful dart throw.
FSU is fading quickly. Clemson will never be worth more and they’re going to want to cash in on that with a ticket to the SEC or BIG at some point in the next 5 years. The SEC should also want NC and VA.

 

[Cyclones1969]

That is probably the correct answer... well, it IS the correct answer.

I guess my point was that it doesn't do anybody any good to dwell on it continuously. Trust me, I wish things were different, but at the moment they are not. I've learned over the years that it isn't worth it to dwell on negatives you can't change. No matter what you do, it isn't going to change. Healthier for me to just roll with the punches and see what happens. I try to look on the bright side of the **** sandwich. If it offends you (it seems to offend you if somebody is trying to be positive), that is fine. You do you.

Just my 2 cents....

Actually it isn’t that problem that people are positive. There isn’t any choice with that at this point.

 

[isucy86]

Notre Dame played on Peacock - must be a tiny brand with no value.

Notre Dame on Peacock. OSU & KSU on ESPN+.

Look at last week's game viewership #'s. Just a handful of games drew over 2M people. Sure a primetime PSU v Auburn drew well- but standard network programing like DWS, NCIS, Ninja, etc. would likely get as many viewers and cost significantly less.

IMO we're seeing media partners testing viewer acceptance of subscription based sports services. We will see a growth of high profile teams and games on subscription TV over the next couple years to aid the networks in developing their bids for the Big10, Pac12 and Big12 media deals.

 

[Win5002]

Agree. We may prefer to have OuT and arguably competing to be the most difficult conference some years, but the Big 12 3.0 is still setup to be #3, more entertaining parity, and has the most stability of the non-P2s.

The Pac12 are ratings disasters and increasingly forgotten, but the ACC is perhaps even more on the brink than the Pac12 since there isn’t the geographical isolation. They’d likely already be the Big 12 had Clemson’s hiring of a Dabo not been a successful dart throw.
FSU is fading quickly. Clemson will never be worth more and they’re going to want to cash in on that with a ticket to the SEC or BIG at some point in the next 5 years. The SEC should also want NC and VA.

The real fight that is upcoming is over NC & Va. Both leagues want those two. Whats interesting is what happens after that point. They don't provide great football content but they have a lot of football recruits at least by B1G standards, the basketball is good and high incomes for advertising. Ironically, Ohio St vs NC or Va. will never generate 7M viewers in football like OSU vs OR did, or like USC can(maybe even UW & UCLA can against OSU/Mich/PSU too).

If the B1G gets NC & Va, then I think they get ND eventually and can add USC and 3-5 others out west. Then the SEC stops B1G expansion at Clemson & FSU for sure, maybe at Ga. Tech. The SEC will not concede the southern recruiting states for their dominance on football recruiting. They may allow Miami because it is really separated from the rest of Florida and doesn't control the state, although the B1G may pass on Miami also.

What's interesting to me is if the SEC gains gains NC & Va. I'm not 100% sure the B1G gets ND at some point over the SEC. If the B1G loses the flagship in those two Atlantic states, I'm not sure the B1G is national enough for ND.

What could be even more interesting though is does the SEC dare the B1G to take the 2nd best brand in NC, Va., Ga. & Florida for potential football recruiting purposes(Clemson has probably passed SC but I'm not sure that is forever). While it gives the B1G access to those states its with the inferior brand and probably knocks down the B1G value in relation to the SEC financially long term.

Save me the ND doesn't want a league. I'm not talking about in 2-3 years necessarily because at some point ND will be forced to join one of those two or lose relevance and prestige.

 

[WhoISthis]

That is probably the correct answer... well, it IS the correct answer.

I guess my point was that it doesn't do anybody any good to dwell on it continuously. Trust me, I wish things were different, but at the moment they are not. I've learned over the years that it isn't worth it to dwell on negatives you can't change. No matter what you do, it isn't going to change. Healthier for me to just roll with the punches and see what happens. I try to look on the bright side of the **** sandwich. If it offends you (it seems to offend you if somebody is trying to be positive), that is fine. You do you.

Just my 2 cents....

It’s not just trying to be positive. There are positives in being in the 3rd best P5 with an auto to the expanded playoffs, in which there are no programs that will monopolize the conference. We can compete with any structurally speaking.

The budget hit compared to the BIG/SEC will be a challenge, but it already was. Our budget and recruiting compared to our schedule will actually improve. That’s good in regards to continuing to build the brand. Would you rather be in a conference perceived to be 3rd to 5th, but actually often the most difficult (Big 12), or the 3rd best that’s perceived as 3rd best (Big 12 3.0)?

Our recruiting won’t fall. Sadly, it basically can’t. The number of scholarships and recruits are not changing. Our pecking order hasn’t changed with two programs above us moving conferences. Instead of selling playing OuT we’ll sell winning and a great chance of the playoffs.

 

[KnappShack]

It’s not just trying to be positive. There are positives in being in the 3rd best P5 with an auto to the expanded playoffs, in which there are no programs that will monopolize the conference. We can compete with any structurally speaking.

The budget hit compared to the BIG/SEC will be a challenge, but it already was. Our budget and recruiting compared to our schedule will actually improve. That’s good in regards to continuing to build the brand. Would you rather be in a conference perceived to be 3rd to 5th, but actually often the most difficult (Big 12), or the 3rd best that’s perceived as 3rd best (Big 12 3.0)?

Our recruiting won’t fall. Sadly, it basically can’t. The number of scholarships and recruits are not changing. Our pecking order hasn’t changed with two programs above us moving conferences. Instead of selling playing OuT we’ll sell winning and a great chance of the playoffs.

How about the number of walk ons that can get paid by a local business? Pay the cost of school and more than he can make in the Iowa market even with a scholarship

It could be like the good ol' days

 

[cygrads]

How about the number of walk ons that can get paid by a local business? Pay the cost of school and more than he can make in the Iowa market even with a scholarship

It could be like the good ol' days

Was it BYU that had a sugar daddy that was going to pay all the walk ons?

 

[WhoISthis]

The real fight that is upcoming is over NC & Va. Both leagues want those two. Whats interesting is what happens after that point. They don't provide great football content but they have a lot of football recruits at least by B1G standards, the basketball is good and high incomes for advertising. Ironically, Ohio St vs NC or Va. will never generate 7M viewers in football like OSU vs OR did, or like USC can(maybe even UW & UCLA can against OSU/Mich/PSU too).

If the B1G gets NC & Va, then I think they get ND eventually and can add USC and 3-5 others out west. Then the SEC stops B1G expansion at Clemson & FSU for sure, maybe at Ga. Tech. The SEC will not concede the southern recruiting states for their dominance on football recruiting. They may allow Miami because it is really separated from the rest of Florida and doesn't control the state, although the B1G may pass on Miami also.

What's interesting to me is if the SEC gains gains NC & Va. I'm not 100% sure the B1G gets ND at some point over the SEC. If the B1G loses the flagship in those two Atlantic states, I'm not sure the B1G is national enough for ND.

What could be even more interesting though is does the SEC dare the B1G to take the 2nd best brand in NC, Va., Ga. & Florida for potential football recruiting purposes(Clemson has probably passed SC but I'm not sure that is forever). While it gives the B1G access to those states its with the inferior brand and probably knocks down the B1G value in relation to the SEC financially long term.

Save me the ND doesn't want a league. I'm not talking about in 2-3 years necessarily because at some point ND will be forced to join one of those two or lose relevance and prestige.

Agree. If the SEC pulls UVa, UNC with Clemson and whichever else it takes to execute the haul (likely Duke, Miami? FSU?) , it’s nearly a P1 situation, with ND leaning SEC. USC at that point may say **** it, and take a couple with them to the SEC Big 12 pod. That’s an existential threat level to the current system. Basically Ohio St against the world.

The BIG may take VT,NCSt, FSU/Miami, and GT, but that’s a little like the Big 12’s presence in Texas now.

Perhaps UNC sells the entire cluster to the highest bidder willing to offer to retain the most ACC identity (which should be BIG with Maryland and more room, plus ACC miss in PSU)

 

[cyIclSoneU]

Was it BYU that had a sugar daddy that was going to pay all the walk ons?

Yep. I'm really glad we got BYU; I thought they might believe independence to be better than the new Big 12. They are a huge brand.

 

[Win5002]

Yep. I'm really glad we got BYU; I thought they might believe independence to be better than the new Big 12. They are a huge brand.

Excluding BYU is an example of the PAC's arrogance.