Are we being to harsh

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isutrevman

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It's okay to just admit that Prohm is in over his head here. He has an incomplete roster, doesn't know how to teach basic defense fundamentals, is too stubborn with roster changes, and his teams play soft. He simply under performs as a coach at Iowa State.
It's ok to disagree with this too. Except for the incomplete roster part. That's obviously true this year.
 

Drew0311

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Nope, not being too harsh at all. It's Steve's job to put a competitive product on the floor. I get we lost some pieces, but:

A) Alot of that was expected. Shayok was a senior. Wigginton made it clear he was gone. THT we knew was gone after pretty much November of last year. He had plenty of time to plan for this, and

B) Every coach deals with attrition. It's just not an excuse.

We lost to Florida A&M which was the biggest upset per ESPN BPI in something like 18 years. We got run out of the gym by Iowa. We have 7 loses in conference by double digits, with 5 of those being by 20+ points.

Hell, even in a win last night he couldn't do much to instill confidence in the fan base. That was a bad, bad TCU team, and we still did our best to blow a sizable lead. we had 8 second half fieldgoals.

I can understand some teams will be better than others, and there are years we wont make the tournament. But it's not being overly "harsh" when you put into perspective that this team has been historically bad.

Yet every win we have we always tell each other how bad the other team was. Texas, TCU and OU. OU we smashed and they are a tourney team. TCU has a winning record and so does Texas. TCU is ahead of us in the standings. Texas is ahead of us in the standings and still has a shot at the tourney. Kansas State has had several good years under Webber and they are at the bottom of the barrel this year. Just sayin I think people think we are all of the sudden Duke and can't have an off year or two.
 

Clonefan32

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If memory serves me we were picked to finish 8th in the Big XII this year. And as of this morning we are 8th. Am I happy , nope. Am I shocked, nope.
To be fair, it's also a conference looking at a real possibility of getting 4 teams in, with two of those teams being pretty average.
 
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Clonefan32

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Yet every win we have we always tell each other how bad the other team was. Texas, TCU and OU. OU we smashed and they are a tourney team. TCU has a winning record and so does Texas. TCU is ahead of us in the standings. Texas is ahead of us in the standings and still has a shot at the tourney. Kansas State has had several good years under Webber and they are at the bottom of the barrel this year. Just sayin I think people think we are all of the sudden Duke and can't have an off year or two.
Oklahoma is currently one of the last 4 in. If they don't make the tournament, that means we would have 1 win this year over a team going to the tournament (Seton Hall). Couple that against the historic losses.
 

Gunnerclone

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Nope, not being too harsh at all. It's Steve's job to put a competitive product on the floor. I get we lost some pieces, but:

A) Alot of that was expected. Shayok was a senior. Wigginton made it clear he was gone. THT we knew was gone after pretty much November of last year. He had plenty of time to plan for this, and

B) Every coach deals with attrition. It's just not an excuse.

We lost to Florida A&M which was the biggest upset per ESPN BPI in something like 18 years. We got run out of the gym by Iowa. We have 7 loses in conference by double digits, with 5 of those being by 20+ points.

Hell, even in a win last night he couldn't do much to instill confidence in the fan base. That was a bad, bad TCU team, and we still did our best to blow a sizable lead. we had 8 second half fieldgoals.

I can understand some teams will be better than others, and there are years we wont make the tournament. But it's not being overly "harsh" when you put into perspective that this team has been historically bad.
I don’t remember that.
 

WastedTalent

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It's okay to just admit that Prohm is in over his head here. He has an incomplete roster, doesn't know how to teach basic defense fundamentals, is too stubborn with roster changes, and his teams play soft. He simply under performs as a coach at Iowa State.
Ultimately, I think you may be right. However, it's one thing to say all that on a message board, where we discuss fan opinion's, but at the same time you can't be openly calling out the AD for not firing him after this season.(not saying you, personally, are doing that) You can ***** about the extension he got last season, but even without that extension, he was still going to be allowed to coach next year.

AD's from slightly above average programs, do not fire coaches that have gone to 3/5 tournaments, and are one year removed from their previous bid. Unless there is home run hire that is campaigning to be the coach, Pollard is kind of forced to keep Prohm.
 

cycloneworld

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Who cares if he recruited them? I don't. I think Steve recruits fine when he has the room to.
You are right, it doesn't really matter. But we had 6 (!!!) NBA caliber players on the 2015-2016 roster - and made a Sweet 16. We had 4 NBA guys on the 2016-2017 roster and made the Round of 32. This is a results-oriented profession...not exactly lighting it up and producing results with that talent level.
 
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Clonefan32

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Nov 19, 2008
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Having gotten my complaining out of my system, I will say Solo's play over the last month, plus Jackson and Grill getting more comfortable does provide some hope for the future. I like Bolton's game but I think he's better as a second option. If Johnson can get us 10-12 PPG next year, with Bolton, Jackson, Solo, Conditt and Grill, and if the new recruits can contribute some, we may have an outside shot of making the tournament.
 

MeowingCows

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Jun 1, 2015
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I think if we could have flipped 3 games (that were extremely winnable):
aFm
@UT
@TCU

The morale would be a lot different.
Outside of these games (and the second Seton Hall game), we've pretty much played to average expectation. It's not like we're throwing away a super-talented team that should be world beaters.

It does hurt some that we could've swept UT and TCU this season if not for endgame failures (and we still can sweep OKST and KSU upcoming). Wouldn't alone have put us in the tourney or anything, but we'd still feel better about the consistent results. We've won most games we should win and lost most games we should lose.
 

heitclone

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Having gotten my complaining out of my system, I will say Solo's play over the last month, plus Jackson and Grill getting more comfortable does provide some hope for the future. I like Bolton's game but I think he's better as a second option. If Johnson can get us 10-12 PPG next year, with Bolton, Jackson, Solo, Conditt and Grill, and if the new recruits can contribute some, we may have an outside shot of making the tournament.
This team will still need an alpha, I agree about Bolton, he's good but he's more Robin than Batman. I think Tyrese going down will be good for him in the long run though, he gets to see what its like to be the focal point of the defense. I'd really like to see him off the ball a bit more, if the rumors of Johnson being able to run the offense a bit end up being legit, that could really help him. I think there are some nice pieces in place for next year, but we just need a couple guys who can consistently knock down shots.

Without speculating too specifically, Grill emerging and playing extended minutes probably means we end up with 2 open schollies this spring. That's promising but those have to go to guys who can contribute next year. The downside to that is, we'll have 6 new faces again, that kind of roster turnover is what's had us rebuilding 2/3 years.
 

awd4cy

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Dec 29, 2010
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Not being too harsh at all. Losing at home to teams ranked 300+ and to unranked teams by 30 at home are all not normal processes of a rebuild. We are very fortunate to catch some lucky breaks with other Big 12 teams being horrible too. There are some past years where I don’t know if we win more than 2 conference games when the Big 12 was loaded top to bottom.
 
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Kurttr

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This team will still need an alpha, I agree about Bolton, he's good but he's more Robin than Batman. I think Tyrese going down will be good for him in the long run though, he gets to see what its like to be the focal point of the defense. I'd really like to see him off the ball a bit more, if the rumors of Johnson being able to run the offense a bit end up being legit, that could really help him. I think there are some nice pieces in place for next year, but we just need a couple guys who can consistently knock down shots.

Without speculating too specifically, Grill emerging and playing extended minutes probably means we end up with 2 open schollies this spring. That's promising but those have to go to guys who can contribute next year. The downside to that is, we'll have 6 new faces again, that kind of roster turnover is what's had us rebuilding 2/3 years.
Agree with both these on Bolton - has some nice talent but not a PG. Was much better with TH in the line-up. He also seriously lacks effort at times (see that play where Solo wisely fouled that guy at the end before he dunked - Bolton stood and watched the whole play) and plays little D. He could really use an alpha to push him. Let's not even talk much about Nixon - he's just playing playground ball. I'm hoping that next year Prohm will heavily base playing time on effort, which might help inspire Bolton.

Solo's play has really been impressive and has been a nice "find" with TH out. Jackson lit it up in HS and on this team needs to have a scorer mentality - he's our #2 option after Solo. Grill looks like he can really come along if he can get comfortable on O - he and Griffin need to do tons of ball-handling over the summer; both play hard. Not sure what's going on with Conditt - has just not been good in conference; looks slow - was good to see him show some fire and dive for that ball, at least.

With this recruiting class, JJ, and hopefully a grad/JC transfer, we have a chance next year. Prohm's seat will be hot, but I'm telling you there's a chance...
 

Halincandenza

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Outside of these games (and the second Seton Hall game), we've pretty much played to average expectation. It's not like we're throwing away a super-talented team that should be world beaters.

It does hurt some that we could've swept UT and TCU this season if not for endgame failures (and we still can sweep OKST and KSU upcoming). Wouldn't alone have put us in the tourney or anything, but we'd still feel better about the consistent results. We've won most games we should win and lost most games we should lose.
Yeah, very true. They pull those ones out they still aren't a tourney team but they are a NIT team at least.
 

BWRhasnoAC

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You are right, it doesn't really matter. But we had 6 (!!!) NBA caliber players on the 2015-2016 roster - and made a Sweet 16. We had 4 NBA guys on the 2016-2017 roster and made the Round of 32. This is a results-oriented profession...not exactly lighting it up and producing results with that talent level.
Tournament is a huge crap shoot and the health of the locker room on that team was far from good. I want success as well but it wasn't all or nothing for me last year.
 
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