All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

[CloneIce]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

This. This mythical three-year extension that everyone refers to and the actually language of the contract don't match up.

I am thinking Pollard must have given him the three because Gmac and staff chose to move all of the scholarship penalties to Year 1 (which was the smart move), I guess Pollard must have rewarded him because he could have spread them the sc. losses over a couple years which would have resulted in more extensions.

 

[CloneIce]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

Are you sure they were all in year one?

Well, I remember them specifically stating they moved them all up to Year 1 so we could get them all over with that season.

If there were any losses in Year 2 they were inconsequential as we did not fill up all our spots and gave 2 scholarships to walk-ons Petey and Haluska.

 

[ca4cy]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

If you are going to ridcule the contract then you do need to understand the situation because the state of the ISU MBB program at that time was very instrumental in the structure of the contract. You can't say it was a stupid contract without consider what was happening at the time. You can use hindsight all you want but Pollard had to go with what he knew at the time. Quite honestly, no one was ******** about the contract when it was signed...no one. People act like a 6 year contract was not the norm. Heck, Lick signed a 7 year $1.2 million contract and walked into a much, much better situation. fact is 5 years is pretty normal and six is not out of the norm.

The problem is, McD got a longer than average contract PLUS the protection of the APR/schollarship/D1 clauses. I would have thought that one or the other would have been sufficient. You keep pounding on me saying I need to acknowledge the situation at the time. I DID AND DO. The person that evidently didn't was Pollard. He pulled the trigger too quickly on Morgan, then compounded his mistake by not doing his due dilligence on the contract and the ramifications of the clauses therein. Hindsight is most certainly 20/20 but it didn't take an Einstein to figure out that the contract could end up being an albatross for this athletic department.

 

[rholtgraves]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

we only lost two scholarships per an ESPN article.

"Iowa State was penalized two basketball scholarships last season for failing to meet NCAA academic performance standards, the university's athletic director told The Des Moines Register."

 

[vmbplayer]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

Well, I remember them specifically stating they moved them all up to Year 1 so we could get them all over with that season.

If there were any losses in Year 2 they were inconsequential as we did not fill up all our spots and gave 2 scholarships to walk-ons Petey and Haluska.

This is correct

Iowa State below NCAA standard, loses scholarships - Men's College Basketball - ESPN

Last line, we were up to the full 13 in year two.

Also, for the if we didn't fire Wayne we'd be fine folks. Take a look at the fact that we didn't meet the minimum standards for 3 years! Not just a result of Wayne being fired. In fact we were able to waive some of the penalties per the article linked because we fired Wayne. I really doubt that all of sudden in year 3 the players would have reached the minimum requirements if they hadn't left because they hadn't done it the previous 2 years when they stayed.

 

[Incyte]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

I am thinking Pollard must have given him the three because Gmac and staff chose to move all of the scholarship penalties to Year 1 (which was the smart move), I guess Pollard must have rewarded him because he could have spread them the sc. losses over a couple years which would have resulted in more extensions.

I agree with your statement if you change it to "Pollard interprets the original contract to give McD three years" rather than "Pollard gave him the three." Pollard can't just go around giving oral extensions to contracts by waiving a magic wand. It needs to be in writing and I'm not aware of any contract other than the original.

The question this begs is whether ISU and McD were permitted to spread both the APR two scholoarship loss and the Juri-car loss over three years which would entitle McD to three more years. If so, JP's interpretation may be reasonable. I don't know the answer to that question.

 

[vmbplayer]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

The problem is, McD got a longer than average contract PLUS the protection of the APR/schollarship/D1 clauses. I would have thought that one or the other would have been sufficient. You keep pounding on me saying I need to acknowledge the situation at the time. I DID AND DO. The person that evidently didn't was Pollard. He pulled the trigger too quickly on Morgan, then compounded his mistake by not doing his due dilligence on the contract and the ramifications of the clauses therein. Hindsight is most certainly 20/20 but it didn't take an Einstein to figure out that the contract could end up being an albatross for this athletic department.

Morgan's players didn't meet APR the 2 years prior to his getting fired. Whether the players left or not after he got canned we were headed toward scholarship penalties. The question marks and negative publicity that came from D1 scheduling was just another reason to pull the trigger.

Since we were in a position where we were going to get penalized scholarships already, I don't view that as pulling the trigger already. I also for that reason don't buy the Mac is JP's guy argument. If Wayne would have had his guys in higher academic standing during his tenure he would probably still be our coach IMHO.

 

[CYKOFAN]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

tazclone- Carr was probably gone but Stinson and Blaylock said they would explore going pro but left open the option to return. I personally don't think that if JP hadn't created uncertaintly for the basketball program well before the end of the season, we probably not only see a better end to the season but Stinson and Blaylock may not have even considered going pro with all the starters returning for Morgan's year 4. GMac has said numerous times how important it is to have the support he needs (from J.P.). Imagine what it's like for the staff and players when they receive no support from the a.d. and in fact it becomes clear that the a.d is trying to get rid of the coach, as was the case well before the end of Morgan's 3rd year. Clearly JP created a bad situation for the players and staff in Morgan's 3rd year, which was completely unfair to Morgan, his staff, and his players. No wonder many players and recruits wanted nothing to do with ISU and got out of town. We have JP to thank for that, and we fans have had to suffer thru bad basketball ever since.

 

[tazclone]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

Well, I remember them specifically stating they moved them all up to Year 1 so we could get them all over with that season.

If there were any losses in Year 2 they were inconsequential as we did not fill up all our spots and gave 2 scholarships to walk-ons Petey and Haluska.

Let's say they were to be spread out over two years but they moved them up. Then legally it would be two over two years. I agree they were inconsequential and am not arguing that. Just debating the legality

 

[vmbplayer]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

tazclone- Carr was probably gone but Stinson and Blaylock said they would explore going pro but left open the option to return. I personally don't think that if JP hadn't created uncertaintly for the basketball program well before the end of the season, we probably not only see a better end to the season but Stinson and Blaylock may not have even considered going pro with all the starters returning for Morgan's year 4. GMac has said numerous times how important it is to have the support he needs (from J.P.). Imagine what it's like for the staff and players when they receive no support from the a.d. and in fact it becomes clear that the a.d is trying to get rid of the coach, as was the case well before the end of Morgan's 3rd year. Clearly JP created a bad situation for the players and staff in Morgan's 3rd year, which was completely unfair to Morgan, his staff, and his players. No wonder many players and recruits wanted nothing to do with ISU and got out of town. We have JP to thank for that, and we fans have had to suffer thru bad basketball ever since.

That and the fact that they couldn't perform academically.

 

[cy1010]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

I agree with your statement if you change it to "Pollard interprets the original contract to give McD three years" rather than "Pollard gave him the three." Pollard can't just go around giving oral extensions to contracts by waiving a magic wand. It needs to be in writing and I'm not aware of any contract other than the original.

The question this begs is whether ISU and McD were permitted to spread both the APR two scholoarship loss and the Juri-car loss over three years which would entitle McD to three more years. If so, JP's interpretation may be reasonable. I don't know the answer to that question.

As per the other thread, they took the two APR scholarship hits in the first year by choice.

Also as per the other thread, it's a question of fact, not interpretation. If, in any given year ISU had it's full allottment of scholarships, the automatic extension provision is NOT triggered. Period.

Also, why does this require a whole new thread?

 

[cy1010]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

Let's say they were to be spread out over two years but they moved them up. Then legally it would be two over two years. I agree they were inconsequential and am not arguing that. Just debating the legality

That's absolutely not correct. It doesn't matter in the least how they were supposed to be spread out because the issue is how many YEARS ISU wasn't at full strength scholarship-wise.

I have no idea what "legally it would be over two years" even means.

 

[CYKOFAN]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

vmbplayer-Were the apr problems for Morgan caused by LE? Also I thought the team gpa went up under Morgan from the LE years.

 

[rholtgraves]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

The funny/sad thing is McD is not doing any better when it comes to graduating players. Just look at how many players leave each year. This year we have Pomlee, Buckley, Staiger, and Hamilton that all count against us.

 

[rholtgraves]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

vmbplayer-Were the apr problems for Morgan caused by LE? Also I thought the team gpa went up under Morgan from the LE years.

GPA has nothing to do with the APR it is whether they are eligible to play and if they graduate from the insitution

 

[cy1010]

Re: McDermott's Magic Extension: Last Time, I Promise

In an email the assoc AD said McDermott was given a 3 year extension in April of 2007.

What "given" means, I do not know.

 

[CycloneWarning]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

We were paying crap. Every contract has incentives so you have to go back to base salary. Guaranteed money was/is less than our competitors. If GMac was making $755K here + incentives, other colleges were offering $1 mil + incentives. Less money equals more years. Most coaches sign five year deals so it really only equated to one more year.

More distorted facts. Go back and see what Sadler and Anderson were paid. Both NU and MU have larger athletic budgets and both were signed for similar $$. Just more distortion from the GMac camp that ISU offered a long-term contract to make up for short-term below market pay. Besides, you guys need to make up your minds. You can't argue that JP "did not extend" the contract due to the automatic provisions, while arguing out of the other side of your mouth that the longer term was needed to attract candidates.

The contract was stupendously bad. The concept of a major infraction resulting in losses of scholarships, ban on post-season play, etc could have been accomodated to allow an automatic extension.

Failing to distinguish between a minor infraction like Jiri and a major infraction should have been easy, but was whiffed.

The contract is a joke and is the main reason we are stuck. That itself tells you what a joke it is.

 

[cy1010]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

More distorted facts. Go back and see what Sadler and Anderson were paid. Both NU and MU have larger athletic budgets and both were signed for similar $$. Just more distortion from the GMac camp that ISU offered a long-term contract to make up for short-term below market pay. Besides, you guys need to make up your minds. You can't argue that JP "did not extend" the contract due to the automatic provisions, while arguing out of the other side of your mouth that the longer term was needed to attract candidates.

The contract was stupendously bad. The concept of a major infraction resulting in losses of scholarships, ban on post-season play, etc could have been accomodated to allow an automatic extension.

Failing to distinguish between a minor infraction like Jiri and a major infraction should have been easy, but was whiffed.

The contract is a joke and is the main reason we are stuck. That itself tells you what a joke it is.

This is why I have no problem questioning the intepretation of any legal counsel to the ISU AD.

 

[vmbplayer]

re: All "Gripes" with Greg McDermott

vmbplayer-Were the apr problems for Morgan caused by LE? Also I thought the team gpa went up under Morgan from the LE years.

per this article
Iowa State below NCAA standard, loses scholarships - Men's College Basketball - ESPN

We didn't meet the minimum apr for 04-05-06 which would mean Morgan's last two years and Macs 1st.


Here is an explanation of how APR is calculated:

Behind the Blue Disk: Division I Academic Progress Rate (APR) - NCAA.org



It's pretty much a snap shot kind of measure so what happened in LE's tenure would have only effected Morgan's first year. In Morgan's first year we were not below the minimum APR.

So I would say no, LE had nothing to do with our APR problems.

 

[GoCubsGo]

Re: McDermott's Magic Extension: Last Time, I Promise

Why do people think that there is another document? It looks like the extensions are triggered through the original contract.

I don't necessarily think there is another document. I'm just saying that if the extension has been reduced to writing, then we're arguing over nothing. But if the purported extension is just based off of an interpretation of the original contract, then I think there is some wiggle room, as discussed at length in this thread.