NBA: *** 2024 NBA thread ***

[SolterraCyclone]

Brady had a pretty mediocre success rate in 2003.

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I am always skeptical of individual honors (e.g., MVP, Pro Bowls, etc.) because they're voted on my people very much susceptible to the "Heisman Effect" of voting for the best player on the best team.

But @deadeyededric argument was people didn’t perceive Tom Brady as an elite QB and said the D got all the credit for the Super Bowls cause Brady was just a game manager.

Wouldn’t the fact that he was voted 3rd show the media (and by extension the public) didn’t perceive him to just be a game manager?

 

[Sigmapolis]

But @deadeyededric argument was people didn’t perceive Tom Brady as an elite QB and said the D got all the credit for the Super Bowls cause Brady was just a game manager.

Wouldn’t the fact that he was voted 3rd show the media (and by extension the public) didn’t perceive him to just be a game manager?

I think we might be saying different things here.

I think his statistical profile screams "game manager" in hindsight. Fans, sportswriters, coaches, and GMs are much more sophisticated about reading statistics now than they were in 2003.

At the time, though, the "eye test" and supposedly self-evident point that the QB of a winning team must be a great player carried a lot more weight than carefully parsing his efficiency numbers.

So yeah... he was seen that way. But for the same reason some above average SEC quarterback on a #1 team (mostly through a menacing defense and OL/running game) usually wins the Heisman.

Team success is shining a flattering light on a good QB who "does his job" rather than being a true stud who is carrying a team in the same way Peyton Manning was at the same time in NFL history.

You're right about the perception.

I just think it was wrong. Brady didn't play like an MVP until 2007+.

 

[houjix]

Brady had a pretty mediocre success rate in 2003.

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I am always skeptical of individual honors (e.g., MVP, Pro Bowls, etc.) because they're voted on my people very much susceptible to the "Heisman Effect" of voting for the best player on the best team.

That site also has an AV (Approximate value stat) which kinda akin to WAR in baseball. Brady was an 11 where most elite QB are hitting upper teens to above 20 in their great seasons. Brady was 5th highest on his own team that year and 5 of the top 6 were all defensive guys.

 

[Jimbo ISU]

I didn't watch any of games 5 or 6. After the fix-job in game 4, I basically gave up on the series. At the last minute I decided to watch game 7 but only ended up watching six minutes or so. The NBA is the worst. I would quit it except for Hali and Georges. My thoughts are with Tyrese for a successful recovery, more all-league seasons, and eventual enshrinement. Go Cyclones.

 

[Sigmapolis]

That site also has an AV (Approximate value stat) which kinda akin to WAR in baseball. Brady was an 11 where most elite QB are hitting upper teens to above 20 in their great seasons. Brady was 5th highest on his own team that year and 5 of the top 6 were all defensive guys.

Good points.

Brady pulled a 23 in 2007 during the 18-1 season when he had Moss the first year, broke about every single-season passing record at the time, and won every individual honor he possibly could.

2003 was one of his worst seasons despite the MVP votes.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00.htm

 

[qwerty]

 

[cytor]

With Haliburton being out next season, perhaps he can make a few Hilton appearances?

 

[BigJCy]

 

[NENick]

Hes also the only really really good offensive player Indy has so when everyone else is playing like **** he needs to take over. Thats really my only critique of his game. This isn't college. Sometimes you just have to take over.

Siakam is a really really good offensive layer.

 

[Bigman38]

Sucks as a fan, can't imagine what it's like for your entire world to revolve around bball and have game 7 of the finals end like that.

 

[TBT]

Niang going home

 

[ianoconnor]

Good for Georges - hopefully he sticks there

 

[clonedude]

Love that for Georges!!! Good for him!

 

[dafarmer]

Only thing is it puts Georges one further away from coaching at ISU!

 

[simply1]

Only thing is it puts Georges one further away from coaching at ISU!

But keeps the nil tap open!

 

[NATEizKING]

Players that want to be considered elite dont score 4 points in game 5. Thats not even showing up. He was the 3rd best player on the court every night. If anyone was underappreciated in the series it was Jalen Williams. That guy is a ******* stud.

This guy?

 

[cycloneman003]

Still hurting for Tyrese, but man that run really reignited my interest in the NBA. I've always been a huge basketball fan, but that's been much heavier on the college side last 5-10 years. Through the 2000's and into early/mid-10's I watched a lot more NBA than have in the last decade.

Now I'm all in on seeing how the Pacers build from here. The east is going to be pretty wide open next year and the Pacers will still be solid, especially if they resign Turner. They strike me as a play-in type team without Tyrese. Feels like a really good season to develop and see what you've got with some of these young guys.

• Nembhard get's a full year running the point and needs to continue to develop offensively
• Mathurin has to step into being the #2 offensive option after Siakam, he'll be in the final year of his contract and needs to prove if he's extension worthy
• Jarace Walker's role really grew from year 1 to year 2, does he have another step forward? His shooting at his size can be a real asset if he continues to grow
• Sheppard was a weak spot at times when called upon, another guy going into year 3 in the league and needs to prove if he can be a role player for a top team
• Furphy is a guy who I think should have stayed at Kansas another year, he got limited run in his first year but seems like a guy with good developmental upside and probably gets more minutes next year to see what they're working with

They then control all their 1st rounders from 2026-31, will have some useful players and/or expiring contracts as trade assets, etc. I think they could in a good spot with Tyrese coming back (hopefully healthy) in 2026-27 to essentially run it back again with this team or make another splash move.

 

[rosshm16]

Still hurting for Tyrese, but man that run really reignited by intrest in the NBA. I've always been a huge basketball fan, but that's been much heavier on the college side last 5-10 years. Through the 2000's and into early/mid-10's I watched a lot more NBA than have in the last decade.

Now I'm all in on seeing how the Pacers build from here. The east is going to be pretty wide open next year and the Pacers will still be solid, especially if they resign Turner. They strike me as a play-in type team without Tyrese. Feels like a really good season to develop and see what you've got with some of these young guys.

• Nembhard get's a full year running the point and needs to continue to develop offensively
• Mathurin has to step into being the #2 offensive option after Siakam, he'll be in the final year of his contract and needs to prove if he's extension worthy
• Jarace Walker's role really grew from year 1 to year 2, does he have another step forward? His shooting at his size can be a real asset if he continues to grow
• Sheppard was a weak spot at times when called upon, another guy going into year 3 in the league and needs to prove if he can be a role player for a top team
• Furphy is a guy who I think should have stayed at Kansas another year, he got limited run in his first year but seems like a guy with good developmental upside and probably gets more minutes next year to see what they're working with

They then control all their 1st rounders from 2026-31, will have some useful players and/or expiring contracts as trade assets, etc. I think they could in a good spot with Tyrese coming back (hopefully healthy) in 2026-27 to essentially run it back again with this team or make another splash move.

Agree 100%. I haven't given much of a sh!t about the NBA since the Derrick Rose injury (level of disinterest made me realize I was a mostly a Jordan fan and not so much a Bulls fan) but now I'm starting to care again.