Our Defense is more “Solid” with Mike Rose at MLB

[Gunnerclone]

Prove me wrong. It’s just more solid. Rose is more multiple and is better side to side which helps take away that 7-12 yard area from hash to hash in the passing game. He doesn’t make the flashy plays that Vance can make on occasion but he helps our secondary out more. He’s also a more cerebral spy when called upon to do that job.

 

[MeowingCows]

@JJIII Thoughts?

 

[CYCLNST8]

Hmm... I would say Vance's strength is the delayed blitz. Obviously the numbers back that up. Whatever combo is better at slowing down Chuba Hubbard is what we need to put on the field.

 

[madguy30]

I agree and him and Eisworth both have a knack for seeming to always be around the ball and extend coverage of space.

What to do when Vance is ready to go?

 

[FinalFourCy]

Prove me wrong. It’s just more solid. Rose is more multiple and is better side to side which helps take away that 7-12 yard area from hash to hash in the passing game. He doesn’t make the flashy plays that Vance can make on occasion but he helps our secondary out more. He’s also a more cerebral spy when called upon to do that job.

Did you notice improvement in the defense last week? Particularly in stopping the 7-12 yard area?

 

[isutrevman]

His best position is MLB. I think the defense is better as a whole with both him and Vance on the field, though.

 

[jbindm]

His best position is MLB. I think the defense is better as a whole with both him and Vance on the field, though.

Yep. I think his natural fit is at MLB but luckily he's skilled enough and selfless enough to man one of the other spots and still be pretty damn good there so the team can get their best players on the field.

 

[WastedTalent]

If Vance continues to be out, and especially this week against Hubbard, I like Rose in the middle. Having said that, I'm not sure who they put in for Rose on the outside. Maybe Hummel and McMillen can't make the switch, and whoever is behind Rose isn't ready to start.

I do think they need to play 3 linebackers against Oklahoma St., with bracket coverage against Wallace, and force Spencer to beat them deep.

 

[CTTB78]

My Monday morning QB opinion agrees with the OP, but it gets easily trumped by our D coordinator's knowledge of what's really best for the team's defense.

 

[SolarGarlic]

I think the scheme is generous to MLBs. Delayed blitzes for sacks, downhill against the run, not as much responsibility on the outside, where mistakes are noticeable.

 

[bozclone]

I think Rose is a better MLB than an OLB, but I think the unit is best with Vance, Rose and Spears on the field together.

 

[Nader_uggghhh]

I think the scheme is generous to MLBs. Delayed blitzes for sacks, downhill against the run, not as much responsibility on the outside, where mistakes are noticeable.

This is my thought as well. The main thing I've noticed since Vance has been out has been the difference between Rose/McMillen. Rose has the strength to shed blocks and the speed to defend swing passes and the outside run. Bobby is a good player but Rose is really special.

 

[AuH2O]

Tough call - as others have pointed out, both Vance and Rose are built to be MLB in this system, but it's also clear they are two of the best 3 LBs. McMillen and Hummel are probably better than either in space in the passing game on the outside, but vs. the run game and getting after the QB Vance and Rose are a big upgrade.

It's hard to say, since the defense hasn't really had many bad quarters. The question isn't whether Rose or Vance are better at MLB, it's what two guys do you have out there at MLB and SLB to make the D play best? The coaches seem to think Vance at MLB and Rose at SLB is best.

My guess is next year we'll see Vance at SLB and Rose at MLB. I think either could end up being good at the SLB if they were there all camp. Not sure how much time and how many reps Rose or Vance got at SLB, but it does seem like the staff made a bet on McDonald at that role that didn't quite play out as expected.

 

[VeloClone]

Tough call - as others have pointed out, both Vance and Rose are built to be MLB in this system, but it's also clear they are two of the best 3 LBs. McMillen and Hummel are probably better than either in space in the passing game on the outside, but vs. the run game and getting after the QB Vance and Rose are a big upgrade.

It's hard to say, since the defense hasn't really had many bad quarters. The question isn't whether Rose or Vance are better at MLB, it's what two guys do you have out there at MLB and SLB to make the D play best? The coaches seem to think Vance at MLB and Rose at SLB is best.

My guess is next year we'll see Vance at SLB and Rose at MLB. I think either could end up being good at the SLB if they were there all camp. Not sure how much time and how many reps Rose or Vance got at SLB, but it does seem like the staff made a bet on McDonald at that role that didn't quite play out as expected.

Rose demonstrating that he can excel at both Mike and Sam gives him a little better chance of making an NFL squad down the road since LBs who can be multiple are valuable to NFL teams with limited rosters.

 

[AuH2O]

If Vance continues to be out, and especially this week against Hubbard, I like Rose in the middle. Having said that, I'm not sure who they put in for Rose on the outside. Maybe Hummel and McMillen can't make the switch, and whoever is behind Rose isn't ready to start.

I do think they need to play 3 linebackers against Oklahoma St., with bracket coverage against Wallace, and force Spencer to beat them deep.

I don't think there's a question what has and will happen if Vance is out. Rose will be in the middle and McMillen and Hummel will get reps at SLB. You really don't have anyone out of position of strength.

The real question is when Vance is healthy. If you're going to play your best 3 LBs, either Rose or Vance have to play a position they are less suited for.

The easy answer to the OP is that Heacock playing Vance at MLB and Rose at SLB ought to be enough, but as great as the staff is, they aren't perfect. They have limited reps in practice and games to work with and at some point you have to make a decision on a position for a guy (with some flexibility depending on the guy) and stick with it, so it's way easier said than done.

What's great is we have 5 LBs that have seen meaningful snaps, and all have played well.

 

[inCyteful]

Prove me wrong. It’s just more solid. Rose is more multiple and is better side to side which helps take away that 7-12 yard area from hash to hash in the passing game. He doesn’t make the flashy plays that Vance can make on occasion but he helps our secondary out more. He’s also a more cerebral spy when called upon to do that job.

I was trying to watch the same thing against TTech viewing replay. It was tough to tell on the secondary help as Eisworth was back. I also suspect there is an element of getting both he and Vance on the field - Rose may be better at MLB but having both he and Vance on field at same time may be best overall solution.

I will be interested to hear what those that know about this stuff say.

I am completely confident in the Def in any case, If the offense develops the same kind of consistency, we are golden.

 

[CyberJJJ]

Did you notice improvement in the defense last week? Particularly in stopping the 7-12 yard area?

Hard to comment on as so many of the plays last week by the opposing offense were some version of the WR screen, so more outside oriented.

 

[CyCloned]

I think Rose is a better MLB than an OLB, but I think the unit is best with Vance, Rose and Spears on the field together.

I think this is part of why JH's system works. With just 3 linemen, the LBers need to be more physical than most of the ones you see in the Big 12, simply because, at times they are that 4 lineman.

 

[Frak]

This game will definitely require a spy, because OSU's QB can really run. Both Rose and Vance can do that. And both can play the run pretty well to try to slow down Hubbard. I have a feeling that they'll bracket Wallace. They'd be dumb not to because he's a top 5-10 WR in the country IMO. The only other real threat is Stoener in the slot. Don't know that Hummel can handle him on short routes and I don't think that McMillen can. They're probably better off putting Rose at SAM if Vance can go. We are really missing Willie Harvey this year.

 

[cyrocksmypants]

McMillan has actually been serviceable in pass coverage. Rose is better at Mike, but Vance is so ducking awful in pass coverage that you have to put Rose at Sam if they’re on the field at the same time.