Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

[BCClone]

How would it be unfair? For the entirety of the 4 team playoff the money was split equally among the P5 conferences. So for over a decade that formula was acceptable, even though the SEC and Big10 put more teams in the playoff.

So if in 5 years when Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Oregon, etc demand a bigger CFP payout split vs. the other Big10 schools that don't put teams in the 12 team CFP, that will be fair? I doubt Iowa, Purdue, MD, Rutgers, UCLA fans will feel that's fair!

What's after that? OSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc. demand a bigger share of the Big10 Media rights deal because their game TV ratings are double or triple the Hawks, Boilermakers, etc. After-all FOX, NBC and CBS are bidding $1B annually to show the Buckeyes and Wolverines vs. the Hawks. So I guess that's fair?

Sure the CFP power play by the Big12/SEC is better for those 2 conferences. It tilts the playing field toward those 2 conferences. But do you really think the Big10/SEC greed is better for College Football as a product? Do you think it will grow interest, attendance and viewership over the next decade?

College football is going to have to look at the data from this years playoff games that went against the NFL. There was a large drop off when they had to compete. CFB are getting to the point where they may be getting out over their skis a bit. Will they understand they have a valuable product or keep trying to squeeze a few more dollars out and kill itself?

 

[ZorkClone]

College football is going to have to look at the data from this years playoff games that went against the NFL. There was a large drop off when they had to compete. CFB are getting to the point where they may be getting out over their skis a bit. Will they understand they have a valuable product or keep trying to squeeze a few more dollars out and kill itself?

No, because there is no central authority of the sport. The networks only care about selling ads. The Athletic Departments only care about the dollars they bring in. Since the NCAA has been rendered powerless, there is no one to advocate for the health of the sport.

 

[Big_Sill]

I've always hated we call it "realignment."

Like you're moving from the NFL West to the NFL South out of scheduling convenience.

Going from the Pac-12 to the Big Ten isn't "realignment."

It's joining an entirely different league (even if that league has some common rulesets, games, and notionally a combined championship with some other rival leagues) most importantly with its own TV contract.

The Jacksonville Jaguars aren't making any more money if they realign to the NFL East with some big-name draws for the TV contract like the Cowboys, Eagles, and whatever we call the DC team.

But if Florida St. ends up in the SEC then everything changes for them.

100% agree. It’s always been a transformation from an amateur model to a profit based / media / professional model.

 

[FinalFourCy]

100% agree. It’s always been a transformation from an amateur model to a profit based / media / professional model.

Meh, movement to get to more prestigious “clubs” have been ongoing since the beginning of college athletics. Before TV and big money

Profit? It would be a good thing if profit mattered. It would have slowed the arms race. That’s why PE taking ownership would be a welcomed change

The transformation to professional model was coming regardless of realignment, although now that even the most head-in-the-sand administrations and fans can see that amateurism is antiquated, it is causing additional realignment

 

[2speedy1]

The only reason there was a sublicense to WBD for two games is that those two games were scheduled against NFL games, who is one of ESPN's partners.

And if it wasn't a such a ridiculous lowball bid, the SEC and B10 wouldn't have bullied the ACC and B12 into taking far less CFP money, so much so that it cost ISU $5M/yr and the postponement of renovating the AIA facility for wrestling.

Since ISU is JP's last job, maybe he can be the lead witness in a potential court case vs ESPN/SEC/Fox/B10. He doesn't care about the backlash and perhaps has been the most publicly outspoken regarding the ongoing BS from those 4 parties although he has been careful not to publicly implicate ESPN and Fox separately so far.

So have you ever sold anything and gotten less than you wanted/expected? Ever traded cars?

JP getting less than he wanted/hoped for is just that. It might not be the huge conspiracy you believe.

Is there possibly a bit of conspiracy, sure, but there is in all of this. But you might just be in tinfoil hat conspiracy territory, in your beliefs.

The WBD sub lease was just the playoff, and if you think 1 media partner having control of the playoff is going to trigger something, you have not noticed ESPN has had control of the entire post season for decades, and has not triggered anything. If you want to go back to the entire CFB season, sure, ESPN and Fox control most of it, but they have for years and have not triggered anything. Then you have said they have subleased to others to keep the legal issues at bay, like to NBC, CBS, WB etc. What makes you think that will not continue if that is the sole reason keeping them out of court.

Fact is, you have way too much faith in the Fed, Both in that they will do something, and that if they do something it will be good for anyone, especially ISU. The Fed rarely does anything in these situations, and when they do, most of the time it hurts us more than helps.

Fact is I would not hold my breath waiting for any fed permanent interjection, that benefits ISU. But you can get bulk rolls of Tin Foil at Sams Club if you need it.

 

[Sigmapolis]

100% agree. It’s always been a transformation from an amateur model to a profit based / media / professional model.

Yeah. "Realignment" just isn't the right word for existential transformations.

 

[Big_Sill]

Meh, movement to get to more prestigious “clubs” have been ongoing since the beginning of college athletics. Before TV and big money

Profit? It would be a good thing if profit mattered. It would have slowed the arms race. That’s why PE taking ownership would be a welcomed change

The transformation to professional model was coming regardless of realignment, although now that even the most head-in-the-sand administrations and fans can see that amateurism is antiquated, it is causing additional realignment

I think we agree, realignment has always been about money. Always means always.

 

[FinalFourCy]

College football is going to have to look at the data from this years playoff games that went against the NFL. There was a large drop off when they had to compete. CFB are getting to the point where they may be getting out over their skis a bit. Will they understand they have a valuable product or keep trying to squeeze a few more dollars out and kill itself?

Ratings going down when on a blowout is on TNT concurrent with top NFL games has a really easy fix.

This isn’t a sign of anything but poor scheduling

Unfortunately squeezing a few more dollars has been great for growing the sport.

 

[BCClone]

Ratings going down when on a blowout is on TNT concurrent with top NFL games has a really easy fix.

This isn’t a sign of anything but poor scheduling

Unfortunately squeezing a few more dollars has been great for growing the sport.

So we need to have first rounds on Wednesdays? Only way the schedules wouldn’t overlap the NFL. If you think college can compete with the NFL, keep thinking it’s all schedule related.

 

[FinalFourCy]

I think we agree, realignment has always been about money. Always means always.

No, moving for more prestigious clubs isn’t the same as moving for more money.

Realignment is as old as college athletics. For a vast majority of that, the movement wasn’t primarily about money

Nebraska didn’t move for money. Joining the BIG is a boost to institutional prestige and had been an institutional preference for decades

A&M and CU didn’t leave for more money

Texas didn’t move for money. They’d been looking for a better address for over 30 years. A&M using the SEC brand against UT was the final straw.

GT didn’t leave the SEC for more money

It’s quicker to make a list that were for money- the PAC departures following OUT.

Revenue gradients (in combination of pay-to-play) are just now large enough to be the primary, if not exclusive, cause of movement

 

[2speedy1]

Are you really that stupid to ask this question and then somehow blame JP?

It's called short-term and long-term budgeting/planning which all CFOs/ADs do as a normal course of business. I don't think any rational B12 or ACC AD would have forecasted the following to occur: 1) an unexpected lowball single bid for the US's 2nd most valuable sports property and 2) resulting bullying from the SEC/B10 for unequal revenue sharing of that less than expected CFP revenue pie.

JP's quote: "We were counting on $5 million more a year from the CFP, which we could then use with the bond counsel to tap into some low interest rate dollars that allowed us to front the wrestling building. When that went away, we didn't have any ability to say, here's how we could pay back that loan, so we couldn't do it."

You keep calling it a lowball, just because JP didnt get what he wanted/hoped.

Where is your proof that it was a so called low ball?

Just because it wasnt what was expected does not automatically mean it was a low ball.

Just because there was only 1 bid also doesnt prove that.

And, the fact could be no one else really wanted to come to the table with a bigger offer. That would not make the ESPN offer a low ball, it would mean it was just the offer. It is very likely, almost for sure, they put feelers out to see how much interest there was from other media members and how serious of an offer they were willing to give, before decided to not open it up to everyone. It is very possible almost guaranteed they knew how much other interest there was in any form.

JP has put the Hilton reno on pause several times over the last many years. Just like he did with the wrestling facility, why because the money was not there. Why the money hasnt been there was because, he didnt get the income he was hoping for, from whatever he was expecting. Is every time he has to cut a project because of conspiracy and a low ball, for the playoff? No, I dont think so, its just the way the business works, its a budget, when you exhaust the budget you have to stop spending. You can plan to spend more, but if that income isnt there you have to change your plan.

 

[2speedy1]

Maybe I’m a tin foil hat weirdo, but I saw the SEC propaganda wheels turning before selection and again after the first round blowouts of Indiana and SMU.

First it was posturing for 3 loss (two to unranked teams) Alabama. Then Lane Kiffin was saber rattling for his 3 loss Ole Miss (2 to unranked teams, plus a non-conference meat grinder of MTSU, Ga Southern, and Furman). Funny to see radio silence after Tennessee’s ass kicking.

I’m convinced these little narratives are calculated moves to sow doubt and consolidate power in the court of public opinion. It’s not about merit anymore. It’s not an equal footing.

When the system isn’t benefitting them, they won’t look inward and improve themselves. Instead they’ll reject the system and turn the screw further in their favor.

But this isnt new, this has been going on for years.

And this is not going to trigger some Fed injunction because ESPN is biased and self promoting.

Hell it has been proven ESPN, and others have changed player ratings depending on where they go. If there is a 3 star recruit that commits to an SEC school, he immediately gets a bump, to at least a 4 star, if that same 4 star transfers to a B12 school they immediately drop his star rating. This keeps those SEC schools rated high in all the metrics, while keeping the others lower.

But again, you are not going to see some fed involvement on it. The only hope is somehow they are held accountable in public perception.

Everyone knows ESPN does this and has for years, thinking somehow the government will come to the rescue, which is what is being argued here now, is ridiculous.

 

[FinalFourCy]

So we need to have first rounds on Wednesdays? Only way the schedules wouldn’t overlap the NFL. If you think college can compete with the NFL, keep thinking it’s all schedule related.

Lol, keep dreaming. A blowout on TNT pulled 6.4 million against some of the biggest brands in NFL on OTA. Yeah, they’re just fine, although subbing Bama for SMU likely occurs in the future

I get it. The changes in the sport aren’t good for ISU/Big 12, so you’ve convinced yourself it will be rejected by fans and won’t work .

Unfortunately most of the viewing public doesn’t have strong convictions on NIL, transfers, realignment, etc. They watch big games and big brands. And now such fans from different regions are watching out of region games more often.

 

[BCClone]

Lol, keep dreaming. A blowout on TNT pulled 6.4 million against some of the biggest brands in NFL on OTA. Yeah, they’re just fine, although subbing Bama for SMU likely occurs in the future

I get it. The changes in the sport aren’t good for ISU/Big 12, so you’ve convinced yourself it will be rejected by fans and won’t work .

Unfortunately most of the viewing public doesn’t have strong convictions on NIL, transfers, realignment, etc. They watch big games and big brands. And now such fans from different regions are watching out of region games more often.

So you think the OTA stations are going to bounce the NFL for college football? That is what you are saying. Only thing I’ve convinced myself of is that college football will NEVER be able to overtake the NFL. If you think it can, you’re the one who had convinced themselves of something.

 

[MugNight]

But this isnt new, this has been going on for years.

And this is not going to trigger some Fed injunction because ESPN is biased and self promoting.

Hell it has been proven ESPN, and others have changed player ratings depending on where they go. If there is a 3 star recruit that commits to an SEC school, he immediately gets a bump, to at least a 4 star, if that same 4 star transfers to a B12 school they immediately drop his star rating. This keeps those SEC schools rated high in all the metrics, while keeping the others lower.

But again, you are not going to see some fed involvement on it. The only hope is somehow they are held accountable in public perception.

Everyone knows ESPN does this and has for years, thinking somehow the government will come to the rescue, which is what is being argued here now, is ridiculous.

Oh I’m with you. Even if they did, I don’t trust the government to get it right. Too many interests at play.

I think an open bid for the CFP with multiple media partners and streaming is a step in beating up ESPN’s monopoly of narratives. However, public perception may take years to change… and by then it may be a completely different set of problems to navigate.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Are you really that stupid to ask this question and then somehow blame JP?

It's called short-term and long-term budgeting/planning which all CFOs/ADs do as a normal course of business. I don't think any rational B12 or ACC AD would have forecasted the following to occur: 1) an unexpected lowball single bid for the US's 2nd most valuable sports property and 2) resulting bullying from the SEC/B10 for unequal revenue sharing of that less than expected CFP revenue pie.

JP's quote: "We were counting on $5 million more a year from the CFP, which we could then use with the bond counsel to tap into some low interest rate dollars that allowed us to front the wrestling building. When that went away, we didn't have any ability to say, here's how we could pay back that loan, so we couldn't do it."

The question you need to ask is JP that stupid, or was he just banking on you being that stupid?

If JP actually long-term budgeted based on a high estimate for a TV deal that would wasn’t even out for bid let alone secured, it’s 100% on him. They didn’t even have the format approved or agreed on until soon before espn secured the rights

And if he didn’t see the P2 getting more, of whatever the bid got, it’s also on him

It’s more PR from JP. Undoubtedly they had some projections based on an upside case they hoped it would get on potential CFP formats. When the actual numbers came in, he had a fall for his budget

JP may be many things, but ahead of the curve he is not. He’s been reactionary and slow on the fundamental changes occurring for over a decade. He needs to shut his mouth and let an actual businessman in Yormark do his job

 

[ClubCy]

The question you need to ask is JP that stupid, or was he just banking on you being that stupid?

If JP actually long-term budgeted based on a high estimate for a TV deal that would wasn’t even out for bid let alone secured, it’s 100% on him. They didn’t even have the format approved or agreed on until soon before espn secured the rights

And if he didn’t see the P2 getting more, of whatever the bid got, it’s also on him

It’s more PR from JP. Undoubtedly they had some projections based on an upside case they hoped it would get on potential CFP formats

JP may be many things, but ahead of the curve he is not. He’s been reactionary and slow on the fundamental changes occurring for over a decade. He needs to shut his mouth and let an actual businessman in Yormark do his job

What specifically has he been slow, reactionary, and behind the curve on? Genuinely curious?

 

[FinalFourCy]

So you think the OTA stations are going to bounce the NFL for college football? That is what you are saying. Only thing I’ve convinced myself of is that college football will NEVER be able to overtake the NFL. If you think it can, you’re the one who had convinced themselves of something.

I have no idea how you came up with that being the contention.

CFP does not need to beat NFL head to head for it to work, and the CFP not beating the NFL in ratings is in no way a sign it is getting over its skis or killing itself

Modern college football has never been more popular than the NFL, so you seem to be suffering from confirmation bias if interpreting those ratings as anything but status quo….

 

[FinalFourCy]

What specifically has he been slow, reactionary, and behind the curve on? Genuinely curious?

JP is a traditionalist.

We certainly didn’t initially embrace Transfer/player movement,NIL (pay to play),PE, etc.

This should be another thread, but the road to the situation ISU is facing was in view when JP was hired. It’s why he talked so much about improving ISU’s brand


As much as I give the other poster a hard time, I can see JP not anticipating the P2 getting a bigger share of the CFP deal

 

[isucy86]

So we need to have first rounds on Wednesdays? Only way the schedules wouldn’t overlap the NFL. If you think college can compete with the NFL, keep thinking it’s all schedule related.

I don't like that the 2024 CFB season will end on Jan 21, 2025.

College football can largely avoid conflicts with the NFL schedule by moving up the playoff games. The reality is Conference Championship games are pretty meaningless. Yea, yea I realize they are a money maker for the conferences. But with the millions being made with the new 12 team playoff, the games could have been cut if Presidents were truly interested in player safety/wellbeing and driven by greed.

Using this year as an example:

Dec 6/7: 1st Round of Playoffs (1 Fri Night & 3 Sat)
Dec 13/14: 2nd Round of Playoff (1 Fri Night & 3 Sat)
** NFL started Sat games on Dec. 21 **
Dec 26/27: Semi-Finals (Night games on Thu/Fri)
Jan 3: Title game on Friday Night

With Army/Navy now both in the ACC, no reason they can't play Thanksgiving Weekend.

And if Conferences feel they need an on-field Champion to determine the CFP 1st round bye, the final week of regular season could be a flex weekend where a conferences top 2 ranked teams play at a neutral site.