Peace Tree is for sale

[Jer]

A someone who spent the better part of a decade neck deep in the industry, the bubble has already burst on the national scale and it's starting to catch up to states that were a bit behind on the craft beer scene. There's a fee reasons for it, but I'd like to address your bullet points first:

1 - Yes, they're almost always more expensive. Scales of economy and all that.

2 - Not only is the pizza being divvied up into too many slices, but the whole craft beer pie is shrinking year over year and has been for quite some time.

3 - I'd disagree with that. Most taprooms I've been to try to be family friendly and will offer food themselves or have food trucks come in. I often see kids/babies in brewery taprooms across the country. Obviously some are better for that than others, but I'd say most try to have a pretty broad appeal.

On the whole, but really elaborating on point #2, the craft beer industry is shrinking because the drinking industry is shrinking. Younger Americans are drinking less as a whole, are going out less as a whole, and when they do drink they want something easy drinking, tasty, and healthy. Because of this, seltzers have been eating into craft beer's market share, which is why you see so many breweries (e.g. Barntown) making their own. This is also why you're starting to see more NA beers being made/marketed and why there are even some "dry pubs" now. People who don't drink (a growing segment of the population) don't often to be around the drunk. NA mocktails are becoming more and more common to see, too.

I don't have access to my old Brewers Association account anymore, which had a TON of data to sort through and the trends were all very clear.

Ultimately, the best way to make money as a craft brewery is to be very small and only sell in your own taproom. If you do sell to other taprooms, charge a premium for your kegs. That's the only way significant margin still exists in the industry because you cut out the distributor's fees (and taxes) and the bar/store's fees (and taxes).

TLDR: less beer is being consumed so obviously more breweries will struggle to exist.

That's incredibly insightful, thank you! For #3, I assume places like Barntown are really good as their ads on tv show a good food menu. Just wasn't sure the setup/nature of the other establishments.

Thanks for the knowledge!

 

[Cyclonsin]

This is a major driver of a lot of things in our economy right now.

Gen Z (comparatively) just doesn't do much of anything in person if they don't have to. Since most people drink socially, if you aren't socializing you generally aren't drinking (again, making generalities). But it's affecting retail, restaurants, and anything else that requires people actually coming in.

And the point about wanting something easy drinking, tasty, and healthy is starting to cut across even the seasoned craft beer drinkers. Myself and a lot of my friends drink less craft beer than we did 5 years ago. Most of just drink less in general due to having young families, and when we do drink, if it's going to be more than a couple, it's focused on something low calorie and low ABV.

According to Untappd, I've had 5,283 different beers but these days I'm more likely to have a cold Miller or Coors in my glass than anything else. There are a few reasons for that:

1) I feel like I've tried everything a dozen times each, so a beer has to REALLY impress/intrigue me if I'm going to splurge for it.
2) Almost nothing really stands out any more. Once upon a time beers like Darkness, Dark Lord, and BCBS were whales that you'd stand in line to get, but now every city has 3 breweries making a stout that's just as good, if not better than those. Takes away a lot of the excitement.
3) The focus on hyper local drinking has led to a lot of bad breweries surviving far longer than they should. Stop focusing on local and start focusing on quality. That said, markets have gotten so saturated that this problem is correcting itself as beer must now be very good AND local to thrive in most places.
4) Since everything has been done too many times to count, breweries are getting wild with some of their ultra-thick sours/IPAs and pastry stouts. Sure, they're neat and wild and interesting and sometimes delicious, but I never want more than 5 oz of one and I'm usually not willing to pay the price for these.

God, typing all of that up made me feel like a geezer. Get off my lawn, I guess.

 

[Al_4_State]

According to Untappd, I've had 5,283 different beers but these days I'm more likely to have a cold Miller or Coors in my glass than anything else. There are a few reasons for that:

1) I feel like I've tried everything a dozen times each, so a beer has to REALLY impress/intrigue me if I'm going to splurge for it.
2) Almost nothing really stands out any more. Once upon a time beers like Darkness, Dark Lord, and BCBS were whales that you'd stand in line to get, but now every city has 3 breweries making a stout that's just as good, if not better than those. Takes away a lot of the excitement.
3) The focus on hyper local drinking has led to a lot of bad breweries surviving far longer than they should. Stop focusing on local and start focusing on quality. That said, markets have gotten so saturated that this problem is correcting itself as beer must now be very good AND local to thrive in most places.
4) Since everything has been done too many times to count, breweries are getting wild with some of their ultra-thick sours/IPAs and pastry stouts. Sure, they're neat and wild and interesting and sometimes delicious, but I never want more than 5 oz of one and I'm usually not willing to pay the price for these.

God, typing all of that up made me feel like a geezer. Get off my lawn, I guess.

I feel the same way about a lot of it.

When I buy craft beer in the store, it's almost ALWAYS an Iowa brewery and is either a Big Grove, TG, Singlespeed, Lion Bridge, Confluence, or West O product. All of those breweries make the kinds of beer I want to drink as well (if not better) than any out of state brewery that's stocked at my local liquor store, and it's ALWAYS going to be more fresh. If I happen to be shopping in Minnesota or Wisconsin (I live close to both) I will get beer made in those states.

Why would I buy a Sierra Nevada Lil' Hazy that's a couple months old and shipped across the country when it's right next to a box of Easy Eddy or Psuedo Sue that's a couple weeks old and made in Iowa?

Super thick/wild sours and stouts have almost completely lost me. I'll occasionally have a pour of one (Pulpit Rock makes incredible versions of these), but I haven't stood in line for a bottle since 2017.

Bad breweries that serve busy locations are going to be fine, for better or worse. There's one close to me in Rochester, MN that's been around for 12 years at this point. Their beer is terrible, but they were the first brewery in town, they're in a heavily trafficked area, and at this point they probably aren't going anywhere. They never really tried to push major distro either, and that's the one right decision they made.

 

[Clone1992]

I feel the same way about a lot of it.

When I buy craft beer in the store, it's almost ALWAYS an Iowa brewery and is either a Big Grove, TG, Singlespeed, Lion Bridge, Confluence, or West O product. All of those breweries make the kinds of beer I want to drink as well (if not better) than any out of state brewery that's stocked at my local liquor store, and it's ALWAYS going to be more fresh. If I happen to be shopping in Minnesota or Wisconsin (I live close to both) I will get beer made in those states.

Why would I buy a Sierra Nevada Lil' Hazy that's a couple months old and shipped across the country when it's right next to a box of Easy Eddy or Psuedo Sue that's a couple weeks old and made in Iowa?

Super thick/wild sours and stouts have almost completely lost me. I'll occasionally have a pour of one (Pulpit Rock makes incredible versions of these), but I haven't stood in line for a bottle since 2017.

Bad breweries that serve busy locations are going to be fine, for better or worse. There's one close to me in Rochester, MN that's been around for 12 years at this point. Their beer is terrible, but they were the first brewery in town, they're in a heavily trafficked area, and at this point they probably aren't going anywhere. They never really tried to push major distro either, and that's the one right decision they made.

Forager?

 

[Al_4_State]

Forager?

God no. They make very good beer.

Only about 3 blocks from them though. Kinney Creek. Maybe the beer’s better now but I haven’t gone in years and I’ve never heard anyone really like it, but it’s still open and they always have cars there.

Rochester has 4 other breweries (including Forager) that are quite good.

 

[Cyclonsin]

God no. They make very good beer.

Only about 3 blocks from them though. Kinney Creek. Maybe the beer’s better now but I haven’t gone in years and I’ve never heard anyone really like it, but it’s still open and they always have cars there.

Rochester has 4 other breweries (including Forager) that are quite good.

Huh, I lived in La Crosse for 7 years and was in the industry for half of those. I've been to Forager several times, and really liked their product. Even tried to foster a collab with them.

But I don't even recall ever hearing the name "Kinney Creek." Sounds like I didn't miss much.

 

[Clone1992]

God no. They make very good beer.

Only about 3 blocks from them though. Kinney Creek. Maybe the beer’s better now but I haven’t gone in years and I’ve never heard anyone really like it, but it’s still open and they always have cars there.

Rochester has 4 other breweries (including Forager) that are quite good.

I was hoping that you weren't talking about Forager as they are really good, but I had no idea that Kinney Creek (which is crappy and in a really sketchy, dark building) had been in business that long. Wife and I enjoy Little Thistle and Thesis also.

 

[Al_4_State]

I was hoping that you weren't talking about Forager as they are really good, but I had no idea that Kinney Creek (which is crappy and in a really sketchy, dark building) had been in business that long. Wife and I enjoy Little Thistle and Thesis also.

I like those and LTS as well. Kinney is the only one I DONT like.

One of my close friends used to play guitar and sing there, otherwise I wouldn’t have ever gone back.

 

[Al_4_State]

Huh, I lived in La Crosse for 7 years and was in the industry for half of those. I've been to Forager several times, and really liked their product. Even tried to foster a collab with them.

But I don't even recall ever hearing the name "Kinney Creek." Sounds like I didn't miss much.

Maybe they’re a front for money laundering. They’re bad and have been for over a decade.

 

[Clone1992]

Maybe they’re a front for money laundering. They’re bad and have been for over a decade.

Always struck me as the kind of setting that I could see a person getting stabbed at.

 

[Al_4_State]

Always struck me as the kind of setting that I could see a person getting stabbed at.

I’ve never felt remotely unsafe there, it just sucks and has been in business for a really long time in spite of that

 

[ClonesFTW]

They have the old recipes. They don't make them because they take a long time to ferment and can't keep up with demand because of their limited space. The gluten free ones are an alcoholic seltzer base and they add the flavor to it. So basically they can make the gluten free faster and it's selling so they don't make the longer lead time beers. They're trying to get a separate facility with more space so they can make traditional beers again. Believe me I'm lobbying them every time I'm in there. I know lots of the staff.

They can't make the cake sours though since that requires gluten. I also miss the traditional ectocooler. 9% traditional sour compared to 4% gluten free.

Good to know - my wife and I noticed a difference in the Big Frooties from 2020/21 to what they are now. I would love to get those old versions back that were almost like an actual smoothie versus a drink. They were perfect for morning tailgate breakfast.

 

[cyfan92]

Kinship is dead actually. They're trying to sell the property right now...
https://www.businessrecord.com/kinship-brewing-property-for-sale-or-lease-in-waukee/

Correct, died months after my post...

Real Estate is pretty solid, but they obviously over financed the property and made C- product.

 

[CloniesForLife]

According to Untappd, I've had 5,283 different beers but these days I'm more likely to have a cold Miller or Coors in my glass than anything else. There are a few reasons for that:

1) I feel like I've tried everything a dozen times each, so a beer has to REALLY impress/intrigue me if I'm going to splurge for it.
2) Almost nothing really stands out any more. Once upon a time beers like Darkness, Dark Lord, and BCBS were whales that you'd stand in line to get, but now every city has 3 breweries making a stout that's just as good, if not better than those. Takes away a lot of the excitement.
3) The focus on hyper local drinking has led to a lot of bad breweries surviving far longer than they should. Stop focusing on local and start focusing on quality. That said, markets have gotten so saturated that this problem is correcting itself as beer must now be very good AND local to thrive in most places.
4) Since everything has been done too many times to count, breweries are getting wild with some of their ultra-thick sours/IPAs and pastry stouts. Sure, they're neat and wild and interesting and sometimes delicious, but I never want more than 5 oz of one and I'm usually not willing to pay the price for these.

God, typing all of that up made me feel like a geezer. Get off my lawn, I guess.

I feel the same way about a lot of it.

When I buy craft beer in the store, it's almost ALWAYS an Iowa brewery and is either a Big Grove, TG, Singlespeed, Lion Bridge, Confluence, or West O product. All of those breweries make the kinds of beer I want to drink as well (if not better) than any out of state brewery that's stocked at my local liquor store, and it's ALWAYS going to be more fresh. If I happen to be shopping in Minnesota or Wisconsin (I live close to both) I will get beer made in those states.

Why would I buy a Sierra Nevada Lil' Hazy that's a couple months old and shipped across the country when it's right next to a box of Easy Eddy or Psuedo Sue that's a couple weeks old and made in Iowa?

Super thick/wild sours and stouts have almost completely lost me. I'll occasionally have a pour of one (Pulpit Rock makes incredible versions of these), but I haven't stood in line for a bottle since 2017.

Bad breweries that serve busy locations are going to be fine, for better or worse. There's one close to me in Rochester, MN that's been around for 12 years at this point. Their beer is terrible, but they were the first brewery in town, they're in a heavily trafficked area, and at this point they probably aren't going anywhere. They never really tried to push major distro either, and that's the one right decision they made.

Agree with a lot of this. I still really love going to breweries and trying beer but my consumption has gone down a lot and some of the wild beers tend to not be anything I want more than a small pour of. I have found myself going much more for pilsners and lagers and less for IPAs and stouts. I'll typically only have one or 2 craft beers on a weekend night vs the several I used to have throughout the day on the weekend when I didn't have kids. It's also hard to drop $15-20 for most of the local IPA 4-packs around here if I'm not 100% certain I'm going to like it.

 

[Cytown12]

Peace Tree's beers were good but not great. They were successful imho because they were the first (early?) to market and people had heard of them and Blonde Fatale.

Then as someone said earlier, they got lapped by Big Grove, TG, et al who made better beers and pushed them harder everywhere. Then their pretty average beers just didn't have much appeal. Would you order a Blonde Fatale, or an Ames Lager or Easy Eddy?

It would be nice it someone would buy Blonde Fatale or Red Rambler recipes and make them (at least once in a while) as a tribute, but honestly I don't think it will happen.

I would buy a blonde fatale or the jack trice beer over Ames lager any day.

 

[SayMyName]

I would buy a blonde fatale or the jack trice beer over Ames lager any day.

Been really digging the Forever True lately...at least until more CloneFest comes out this fall (hopefully)

 

[JP4CY]

 

[bluestarcyclone]

So weird. Announce plans to keep the taprooms open then a couple days later close one and say the other will be "open through the summer" aka they'll be closing that too as soon as they run out of their own beer

 

[IcSyU]

So weird. Announce plans to keep the taprooms open then a couple days later close one and say the other will be "open through the summer" aka they'll be closing that too as soon as they run out of their own beer

Do they own their own building? If they don't what will sometimes happen is the landlord will let you stick around until they have another tenant lined up because they'd rather have someone in it than a vacant building.

 

[bluestarcyclone]

Do they own their own building? If they don't what will sometimes happen is the landlord will let you stick around until they have another tenant lined up because they'd rather have someone in it than a vacant building.

You may be right, from what I can tell it doesn't look like they own it. Christensen development appears to.