I didn't know that about Lagunitas. That was a large brewery.
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Peace Tree is for sale
- Thread starter JP4CY
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I wish they would have kept some of the old recipes and just offered a gluten-free version - it definitely changed the flavor profile on a few of my favorites. I'm sure it was way more cost effective to just change them all.
They have the old recipes. They don't make them because they take a long time to ferment and can't keep up with demand because of their limited space. The gluten free ones are an alcoholic seltzer base and they add the flavor to it. So basically they can make the gluten free faster and it's selling so they don't make the longer lead time beers. They're trying to get a separate facility with more space so they can make traditional beers again. Believe me I'm lobbying them every time I'm in there. I know lots of the staff.
They can't make the cake sours though since that requires gluten. I also miss the traditional ectocooler. 9% traditional sour compared to 4% gluten free.
Lagunitas is also fully owned by Heineken now, so the business model is different. The shareholders have different priorities (profit margin).
Yes, but that was the whole point of the initial opening of the Chicago Brewery, it gave them a good location to supply the midwest and east coast. Obviously Heineken has it's resrouces, but if you've never been to the Chicago Loacation, it was huge. They could easily use that as a production brewery for other stuff. Moving it all back to California is definitely a bad sign for Craft Beer.
Craft beer is becoming completely local.
Because almost every corner of the country has high quality, MUCH fresher local beer, craft beer drinkers are getting that instead of the reputable national brewer whose stuff has been on the shelf for a few months.
That’s why the neighborhood taproom model continues to work pretty well. People still like good beer, but the infatuation with trying it all is over.
Just be like Europe. You drink what's local and it's usually pretty dang good.
Yep local is more fresh and typically a little cheaper than some of the bigger craft brewers that distribute. Taprooms around the Cities are constantly full if they are either in a suburb or town with no other options or in the cities and have a good taproom and beer. Breweries are a great options for families. Usually more space and it's fine to just walk around and in MN the always have food trucks so it's easy to just go grab some food. One thing that sucks though is the cost of beers seem to average around $7-8 up here so if my wife and I go get a couple beers each you're talking mid to high $30s after tax and tip.
Nothing is affordable anymore.
Yup! I've tried to give their beers a chance hoping they'd get better but they are still very underwhelming compared to other local craft breweries in the area. They have a great facility which is a shame they don't have great beer to go with it. Curious how their financials look.
Barntown used to be one of my favorites but since they have gone heavy on the sours and seltzers lately plus a lot of their 4 packs are on the high end on price point they've lost a lot of my regular beer purchase business. Still will grab a 4 pack of Neon or Ruby Red on occasion but there are better comparable local craft beers on the shelf at a much better price. Confluence does a great job of putting out a wide variety of beers while keeping the price reasonable. Whatever they are doing is working.
Speaking of which I'm currently enjoying the last Blonde Fatale in my fridge. Will be making a point to buy some more until I can't find it on the shelf anymore.
Ok you have to realize that I thought Peace Tree was a Goodwill version of Dollar Tree when I saw the thread title.
But is it possible the craft brewery and even hyper local microbrewery industry has hit a bit of a bubble burst moment? As somebody that doesn’t drink but has seen these places seemingly outpace Starbucks in number of places opening all the time, it seemed like something was going to burst eventually.
1 - I assume (maybe completely wrong) that all of these small breweries and microbreweries are quite a bit more expensive than big brands. Is that true?
2 - With so many options, I would assume any one brand can really only become dominant in the local scene or be niche, but otherwise you can only cut a pizza into so many slices.
3 - Aren’t most of these places mostly for the guy hangouts rather than the traditional pub and grill that the whole family could go to?
It just seems like when you over saturate a market with options, and those options aren’t cheap, that sooner or later the market is going to succumb to the economic forces overall. Most food places are struggling and only getting worse so I don’t know how these even more specialized entities would do any better.
But again, I have less than zero knowledge in this whole thing. Just assuming it is subject to the same laws of economic physics as other boutique or expendable costs industries.
But is it possible the craft brewery and even hyper local microbrewery industry has hit a bit of a bubble burst moment? As somebody that doesn’t drink but has seen these places seemingly outpace Starbucks in number of places opening all the time, it seemed like something was going to burst eventually.
1 - I assume (maybe completely wrong) that all of these small breweries and microbreweries are quite a bit more expensive than big brands. Is that true?
2 - With so many options, I would assume any one brand can really only become dominant in the local scene or be niche, but otherwise you can only cut a pizza into so many slices.
3 - Aren’t most of these places mostly for the guy hangouts rather than the traditional pub and grill that the whole family could go to?
It just seems like when you over saturate a market with options, and those options aren’t cheap, that sooner or later the market is going to succumb to the economic forces overall. Most food places are struggling and only getting worse so I don’t know how these even more specialized entities would do any better.
But again, I have less than zero knowledge in this whole thing. Just assuming it is subject to the same laws of economic physics as other boutique or expendable costs industries.
That’s where I’m at. I almost never get non-local craft beer any more, and when I travel I drink what’s local there.
Kinship is dead actually. They're trying to sell the property right now...
https://www.businessrecord.com/kinship-brewing-property-for-sale-or-lease-in-waukee/
Well - a few months back the owner came out on their Facebook page or something and said they were going to try to continue brewery operations and distribution until they figured things out. Not that I believe that at all, because they can distribute all they want, but I know I won't buy any beer from a guy who doesn't pay his employees what they're rightfully earned.
Yeah but remember Chicagoans think Goose Island is acceptable craft beer so there is that. I'm not surprised that Lagunitas did not make it there. Not all but most of their beers are pretty high IBU which is not everyone's cup of tea. When I first started drinking craft beers I rarely drank anything over 40 IBU. Now bring on the 60+ flight.
A someone who spent the better part of a decade neck deep in the industry, the bubble has already burst on the national scale and it's starting to catch up to states that were a bit behind on the craft beer scene. There's a fee reasons for it, but I'd like to address your bullet points first:
1 - Yes, they're almost always more expensive. Scales of economy and all that.
2 - Not only is the pizza being divvied up into too many slices, but the whole craft beer pie is shrinking year over year and has been for quite some time.
3 - I'd disagree with that. Most taprooms I've been to try to be family friendly and will offer food themselves or have food trucks come in. I often see kids/babies in brewery taprooms across the country. Obviously some are better for that than others, but I'd say most try to have a pretty broad appeal.
On the whole, but really elaborating on point #2, the craft beer industry is shrinking because the drinking industry is shrinking. Younger Americans are drinking less as a whole, are going out less as a whole, and when they do drink they want something easy drinking, tasty, and healthy. Because of this, seltzers have been eating into craft beer's market share, which is why you see so many breweries (e.g. Barntown) making their own. This is also why you're starting to see more NA beers being made/marketed and why there are even some "dry pubs" now. People who don't drink (a growing segment of the population) don't often to be around the drunk. NA mocktails are becoming more and more common to see, too.
I don't have access to my old Brewers Association account anymore, which had a TON of data to sort through and the trends were all very clear.
Ultimately, the best way to make money as a craft brewery is to be very small and only sell in your own taproom. If you do sell to other taprooms, charge a premium for your kegs. That's the only way significant margin still exists in the industry because you cut out the distributor's fees (and taxes) and the bar/store's fees (and taxes).
TLDR: less beer is being consumed so obviously more breweries will struggle to exist.
This is a major driver of a lot of things in our economy right now.
Gen Z (comparatively) just doesn't do much of anything in person if they don't have to. Since most people drink socially, if you aren't socializing you generally aren't drinking (again, making generalities). But it's affecting retail, restaurants, and anything else that requires people actually coming in.
And the point about wanting something easy drinking, tasty, and healthy is starting to cut across even the seasoned craft beer drinkers. Myself and a lot of my friends drink less craft beer than we did 5 years ago. Most of just drink less in general due to having young families, and when we do drink, if it's going to be more than a couple, it's focused on something low calorie and low ABV.
