When do you think you will buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?
- Thread starter dmclone
- Start date
It isn't the same concept. With GPS you have to pay for a service - I believe it essential is a cellular service for your car that you are paying for - essential for the GPS to work. Satellite radio you are paying for streaming content. Does the self driving feature require an ongoing wireless connection back to the mother ship to work? If there is something like that beyond the capabilities of the standard car, I can see it, but otherwise this is just a monthly service they can collect without having to do anything or expend anything extra.
Okay, now I have heard both it is a monthly subscription and it isn't. I'm confused.
Check out the Rivian lease deals right now. They're very good.
They've shut down the plant right now to refresh and all remaining inventory across the country is available anywhere.
It's an option to subscribe monthly or you can buy it outright
Great, so you can try it on and buy it if it makes sense for you. That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
Lily Phillips has a really good “documentary” on this exact subject.
We've had a Rav4 Prime since summer 2022 and have loved it. It's met our needs great. We get almost 50 miles on a charge in the warm months and probably 35-40 in the winter months. We charge on our normal outlet in the garage and a full charge takes ~12 hrs overnight
Mileage when using gas on road trips, etc. typically averages low 30s. It's also surprisingly fun to drive with as much torque as the electric engine gives and the combined power of both engines.
I think it would work for backpacking trips pretty well, we've contemplated taking it on car camping trips and potentially even using it's 'room mode' (basically you plug in and it runs climate control all night) with an air mattress or something but haven't done that yet.
I think reality is setting in that all the companies that skipped PHEV missed a huge opportunity and now need to back track. There are waves of buyers in technology like EVs. You get the early ones that either get it for climate beliefs, status symbol, or they never need the car to go beyond 250 miles. And then you have a pretty big gap of non-interested buyers before you get to the next wave of mass adoption.
EVs are not ready for mass adoption at the scale some of the manufacturers seemed to think. The infrastructure still isn't there, nobody wants to have to plan hour long charging stops every 250 miles on a trip, apartments, townhouses, and most houses have no wiring considerations yet, the costs are still somewhat prohibitive, etc.
PHEVs are absolutely perfect for this current era of infrastructure and technology. The only downfall is the car has to basically support both ICE and EV technologies. That's really the only downfall.
EVs are not ready for mass adoption at the scale some of the manufacturers seemed to think. The infrastructure still isn't there, nobody wants to have to plan hour long charging stops every 250 miles on a trip, apartments, townhouses, and most houses have no wiring considerations yet, the costs are still somewhat prohibitive, etc.
PHEVs are absolutely perfect for this current era of infrastructure and technology. The only downfall is the car has to basically support both ICE and EV technologies. That's really the only downfall.
Ignore this post if you don't have the time, but I thought I would write up an update on our experience after nearly a year of ownership of an EV.
Now that winter is complete. The Model Y is my wife's, who is WFH, so we drive it very little. I started this software a couple months after we bought the car so a couple thousand miles were not tracked. The only road trips we've taken are to northern Iowa, Omaha, and KC.
We paid $2,100 to get a charger installed in our garage. We set it up to charge two EV's in the future.
The MSRP was $52,880
Our trade in was $21,200 (VW Tiguan). They didn't even look at it, just wanted the keys.
We received a $7,500 tax credit for 2023
Since tesla can't sell in Iowa, I had to go to the courthouse and pay like $1,200 in taxes
Yearly tag fees are $656, which includes the $130 EV fee, since we don't pay gas taxes.
We switched auto insurance, but it still went up $25/month but keep in mind that we went from a $20k vehicle to a $50k vehicle. There is no doubt, EV's are expensive to insure. Tesla offers insurance, but I'm not a fan of big brother adjusting my rate based on a number of factors.
2023 Tesla Model Y LR Full Self-Driving Capability,Autopilot,Black and White Premium Interior(She loves the white interior),Pearl White Multi-Coat (PPSW)(She hates that every Tesla she sees is white),19’’ Gemini Wheels,Long Range All-Wheel Drive,
Five Seat Interior
Expires June 26, 2027 or 50,000 total miles, whichever comes first
Battery Limited Warranty
Expires June 26, 2031 or 120,000 total miles, whichever comes first
Drive Unit Limited Warranty
Expires June 26, 2031 or 120,000 total miles, whichever comes first
It will run 12.5/115mph in the 1/4 mile. It will do this every time. No wheel spin, and instant torque. We drove it a couple of times on the ice/snow and it performed great. If you get the fast one (performance), you'll probably want to swap to all-seasons during the winter.
You'll notice that 91.3% of our charging is at home, which is about 1/4 the price of charging at a tesla supercharger. We had one free charge at a hotel in KC as you see in the pics.
If we were to drive 12k miles a year, it would cost us around $450.
If we were to drive 12k miles a year in my SUV, which gets 21mpg, and assuming fuel is $3.39 gallon, it would cost around $1,940. Probably add another $300/year in maintenance that is required on an ICE vehicle.
For those thinking about a hybrid, if you can get 42mpg, it would only cost you $970. Probably add another $300/year in maintenance that is required on an ICE vehicle.
As you can see from the numbers, you really need to appreciate the driving experience to justify the cost, because you're not going to make up the difference in fuel savings for many years.
Her Tesla has the type of battery that they recommend charging to 80%, unless you are planning on some long road trip. This is why you'll see on these charts mostly end at 80%. Some Tesla's have batteries that they recommend charging to 100% every time. We pay 11 cents per kwh, which is pretty cheap compared to a lot of other areas. Although our fuel is also pretty cheap. For some reason, we got a real cheap charge in Bethany.
You can see efficiency goes down when it's very cold. What this doesn't show is who is driving. My consumption is probably a lot worse than hers. Also, she learned to warm the car up before she left(even in the garage), which I'm sure takes a little energy in those winter months. My understanding that in cold temps, it constantly takes more energy because it has to keep the battery at a certain temperature.
5,699 on the odometer but only tracked for 3,790 miles. That green bar at the bottom shows how the robo taxi could be a real income producer. When it's green, it's just sitting in the garage being idle. No, we're not making this into a robo taxi.
Monthly breakdown
She goes to Hy-Vee and Target a lot
My wife is overly cautious with the range, and if she did a bunch of roads trips, she'd want to get better about trusting the Tesla software. When you're on a long road trip, it really does pay off to allow the battery to get low. When you plug in the supercharger with a low battery it provides maximum charging power and just gets slower as the battery gets full. This is why the Tesla software rarely recommends charging above a certain percentage when using their Superchargers. It's very common for it to recommend breaking the charges up, which will actually save you time.
Now that winter is complete. The Model Y is my wife's, who is WFH, so we drive it very little. I started this software a couple months after we bought the car so a couple thousand miles were not tracked. The only road trips we've taken are to northern Iowa, Omaha, and KC.
We paid $2,100 to get a charger installed in our garage. We set it up to charge two EV's in the future.
The MSRP was $52,880
Our trade in was $21,200 (VW Tiguan). They didn't even look at it, just wanted the keys.
We received a $7,500 tax credit for 2023
Since tesla can't sell in Iowa, I had to go to the courthouse and pay like $1,200 in taxes
Yearly tag fees are $656, which includes the $130 EV fee, since we don't pay gas taxes.
We switched auto insurance, but it still went up $25/month but keep in mind that we went from a $20k vehicle to a $50k vehicle. There is no doubt, EV's are expensive to insure. Tesla offers insurance, but I'm not a fan of big brother adjusting my rate based on a number of factors.
2023 Tesla Model Y LR Full Self-Driving Capability,Autopilot,Black and White Premium Interior(She loves the white interior),Pearl White Multi-Coat (PPSW)(She hates that every Tesla she sees is white),19’’ Gemini Wheels,Long Range All-Wheel Drive,
Five Seat Interior
Warranty
Active
Basic Vehicle Limited WarrantyExpires June 26, 2027 or 50,000 total miles, whichever comes first
Battery Limited Warranty
Expires June 26, 2031 or 120,000 total miles, whichever comes first
Drive Unit Limited Warranty
Expires June 26, 2031 or 120,000 total miles, whichever comes first
It will run 12.5/115mph in the 1/4 mile. It will do this every time. No wheel spin, and instant torque. We drove it a couple of times on the ice/snow and it performed great. If you get the fast one (performance), you'll probably want to swap to all-seasons during the winter.
You'll notice that 91.3% of our charging is at home, which is about 1/4 the price of charging at a tesla supercharger. We had one free charge at a hotel in KC as you see in the pics.
If we were to drive 12k miles a year, it would cost us around $450.
If we were to drive 12k miles a year in my SUV, which gets 21mpg, and assuming fuel is $3.39 gallon, it would cost around $1,940. Probably add another $300/year in maintenance that is required on an ICE vehicle.
For those thinking about a hybrid, if you can get 42mpg, it would only cost you $970. Probably add another $300/year in maintenance that is required on an ICE vehicle.
As you can see from the numbers, you really need to appreciate the driving experience to justify the cost, because you're not going to make up the difference in fuel savings for many years.
Her Tesla has the type of battery that they recommend charging to 80%, unless you are planning on some long road trip. This is why you'll see on these charts mostly end at 80%. Some Tesla's have batteries that they recommend charging to 100% every time. We pay 11 cents per kwh, which is pretty cheap compared to a lot of other areas. Although our fuel is also pretty cheap. For some reason, we got a real cheap charge in Bethany.
You can see efficiency goes down when it's very cold. What this doesn't show is who is driving. My consumption is probably a lot worse than hers. Also, she learned to warm the car up before she left(even in the garage), which I'm sure takes a little energy in those winter months. My understanding that in cold temps, it constantly takes more energy because it has to keep the battery at a certain temperature.
5,699 on the odometer but only tracked for 3,790 miles. That green bar at the bottom shows how the robo taxi could be a real income producer. When it's green, it's just sitting in the garage being idle. No, we're not making this into a robo taxi.
Monthly breakdown
She goes to Hy-Vee and Target a lot
My wife is overly cautious with the range, and if she did a bunch of roads trips, she'd want to get better about trusting the Tesla software. When you're on a long road trip, it really does pay off to allow the battery to get low. When you plug in the supercharger with a low battery it provides maximum charging power and just gets slower as the battery gets full. This is why the Tesla software rarely recommends charging above a certain percentage when using their Superchargers. It's very common for it to recommend breaking the charges up, which will actually save you time.
We purchased our Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid Max Platinum last August, best vehicle we have over owned, fully loaded with all the bells and whistles, have had no problems whatsoever with it. My only complaint is the gas mileage, the regular GH hybrids get about 35 mpg, but with Max version its rated at 25/27 but it will fly down the road. For such a large vehicle, 4 captains chairs and fold down 3rd row seating you have plenty of room for vacations and such.
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My wife traded her Rav4 Hybrid for a Grand Highlander Hybrid (not the max) a couple weeks ago. We took a little hit on gas mileage but not massive. Part of that hit was the two road trips we've taken had gale force winds blowing both times. It's starting to creep up above 30mpg now. That blows my mind how easy that thing is on gas for it's size.
I'm a month into having a Tundra hybrid and it's also beating my Tacoma for MPG by just a little bit. I don't drive it as much as we do the Grand Highlander but supposedly there's a break in period and I would believe it because my mpg has been slowly creeping up in town. I've gained about 0.5 mpg according to the computer from day 1 until now 6 or 7 weeks into having it.
If Toyota would have made the Hybrid Platinum non-Max version that is what I would have gotten. We liked all the bells and whistles the max version has, that are not offered on the limited hybrid. I really noticed the milage dropped when it was cold this winter, but overall, we love the vehicle and paid it off last week. The Max version is a blast to drive with the extra power, it wants to run 85 to 90 down the interstate, and it feels like 60.
I would have preferred some of the options in the Platinum over the Limited we got but not having a choice between the max powertrain and the regular hybrid made that a no go for us. If we really need more power my truck has plenty.
Good to hear first hand accounts, when i first saw the 40 electric range on it years ago I was skeptical. I was trying to get one in spring/summer of 2021 and it was just a total joke how much over MSRP they were, dealers kind of laughed when I asked them about stock. I think that was during an insane gas price spike in my area that made it even worse.
My current PHEV only gets 20 electric range and even that covers vast majority of daily driving easily, plus some days I get multiple charges to increase that. It's not true "off roading" i do but it's unmaintained service roads in the mountains. My subaru handles them and the times I've rented a Jeep it really handled them and certain roads were actually kind of fun. I have been shocked at some of the low clearance cars I've seen people get up to these trailheads, but I wouldn't even consider trying it.
I liked my Subaru PHEV, now that my lease is up they don't have a PHEV model anymore and I'm thinking their one EV offering is probably not going to be my best choice, not because I wouldn't buy an EV but because I don't think that one EV is the ideal one for me. I think they only offered it in CA in the first place to begin with, not nationwide.
I've not heard a lot of great things about the Toyota BZX4, which I believe is based on the Subaru Solterra. With that said, I just heard this morning that there are some INCREDIBLE deals to be had on that Toyota.
