Been watching non Big 12 basketball lately...

[FancyRex]

Look, everyone hypes up these 3 point shooting teams in February and then MM comes around and the games are 68-65 and what do you know?! the defensive team wins it the vast majority of the time.

People bought the B10 hype for YEARS because of this. The reason the Big12 ranks so highly is every single team forces you to fight for every single shot. I watch those SEC and BE and B10 games, you know what they all have in common? outside of a handful of teams, none of them play defense that can remotely compare to a middle of the pack b12 team. Wide open 3s all game long.

Those shots wont be there in March. Bet.

 

[NorthCyd]

And I think those pundits who think the Big 12 is overrated may be on to something. As fans of a Big 12 team, I fear we may all be high on our own supply. The other conferences, namely the SEC, are filled with teams at the top that will be dancing that have more size, athleticism, and playmakers than what I'm seeing from most Big 12 teams on a game by game basis. I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I also look at some Big 10 teams and although the metrics would tell you we are a lot better than a team like say Iowa for example, who likely won't even be dancing in a couple weeks, they have legit playmakers more so than anything we have individually. They've got 3 guys averaging more ppg than our highest scorer. Another guy still averaging under 9 ppg but has scored 20+ the last 3 games. I know Big 10 defense isn't what we see in the Big 12 either, but offensively I am really starting to have fear that we aren't going to have enough shot making come tournament time. We are still winning games, and that's great, but I am getting some deja vu from last season all of a sudden and not really loving the trend we are on compared to other tournament worthy teams around the country. Given that we are a likely 3 or even 2 seed, I love our chances at avoiding a first round defeat, but given what we have offensively, it seems like we could lose to just about any P6 team on any given day. I know this is coming off as a very downer post, but I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way or if I'm crazy.

I've been watching other conferences all season, and if you've only watched other conference games that include two of the best teams of that conference, like Tennessee and Alabama, I'm sure you would come away impressed. The top of the conference isn't what sets the Big XII apart, its the teams in the middle and bottom. There are no nights off. Every team is capable of beating you if you have an off night.

As for this reminding you of last year, we ended the conference 1-4 last year. I don't think there is a single thing about this team that reminds me of the fade from last years team other than a dip in offense because we are playing really good defensive teams. We're still winning.

 

[ClonesFTW]

Big 12 has better teams while the SEC has better athletes.

 

[dahliaclone]

I tend to agree that the Big 12 is a little overrated. But I really don’t understand the Iowa comparison. We smoked them by 30 points.

I guess my thought it is how do we actually know if the league is overrated. Any league for that matter. You put TCU or BYU or TT in the Big Ten and they probably are top four seeds and people would be saying how great they are. But they’re in the tougher big 12 against a lot of good teams.

It will all shake out in the tourney.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I know that teams improve… but didn’t we handle Iowa by 25?

I was using Iowa as an example only, of teams that have more dangerous scorers than we do. I probably should have picked a different example. I don't think they are better than us simply because I think they have better shooters and scorers

 

[Big_Sill]

You can’t deny the Big 12 is the best overall conference. You just can’t. Top to bottom no other conference has the amount of very good and good teams and very few below average teams.

Now does the Big 12 have lots of final four teams? No. I see three of things go their way: Houston us and Baylor. But again I don’t see any other conference that has three or more legit contenders.

I do happen to think the big 12 is the best conference, but the gap between the big 12 and the other conferences is much much closer than many people around here make it out to be.

 

[HFCS]

I tend to agree that the Big 12 is a little overrated. It’s the best conference, but it’s still pretty close to others in quality. It’s just deeper.

But I really don’t understand the Iowa comparison. We smoked them by 30 points.

The big 12 has been deepest by miles for over a decade. The best teams have been as good but not better than big east and acc. Its the bottom half that has been uniquely good.

Big Ten has been down for almost a quarter century and sucked for much of past decade. If they do well it’ll be a totally new thing.

 

[Clone9]

I do, but when people look back on this season 20 years from now, will they realize it? No, they will just be looking at stats and wonder how we were so successful.

Not to get away from my main point, which is concern that at some point, we could get bounced early from the tournament because our shot making and play making has not been there lately. It happened against Pitt last year and it is starting to feel like the formula is there for it to happen again. Our offensive ranking in kenpom has plummeted the last week and a half.

When I look back in 20 years I will look at how many games we won, not if we had guys that you think are better scorers.

 

[Cloneon]

Statistically speaking I am not crazy. Go look at the stats. Iowa has better shooters and scorers than we do. One game sample size against us be damned, I'm looking at the 30 game sample size.

I thought this as well once or twice this year, but then again: no defense = good offense. Did you not watch yesterday's game? The B12 defense is brutal. Furthermore, you're suggesting the Iowa game was an outlier. I disagree. It clearly, proved the better defensive team.

 

[Clonehomer]

Look, everyone hypes up these 3 point shooting teams in February and then MM comes around and the games are 68-65 and what do you know?! the defensive team wins it the vast majority of the time.

People bought the B10 hype for YEARS because of this. The reason the Big12 ranks so highly is every single team forces you to fight for every single shot. I watch those SEC and BE and B10 games, you know what they all have in common? outside of a handful of teams, none of them play defense that can remotely compare to a middle of the pack b12 team. Wide open 3s all game long.

Those shots wont be there in March. Bet.

I think the amount of fast break points is also a big part of it. Other conferences have teams that are more than happy to run up and down the court. TCU started conference play like that, but was shut down very quickly. Those athletes don’t really matter as much if you get back on defense.

 

[HFCS]

I was using Iowa as an example only, of teams that have more dangerous scorers than we do. I probably should have picked a different example. I don't think they are better than us simply because I think they have better shooters and scorers

I believe Iowa can score more against NW than us, not that they’d break 70 against Houston, or even 60. Their league got soft, a quarter century ago when it was an elite physical league big ten fans and media bragged about that.

 

[jsb]

Plus one of the great things about college basketball is you see a lot of different styles and ways teams find ways to win.

An 'eye test' allows biases to come in that favor certain styles rather than objectively looking at performance.

In theory different eyes would favor different styles and things would even out.

I don't think that computers and analytics should be taken out of consideration. But I do wonder if any conference gets locked into it's own echo chamber and you don't really know who is good.

 

[ISUTex]

I was using Iowa as an example only, of teams that have more dangerous scorers than we do. I probably should have picked a different example. I don't think they are better than us simply because I think they have better shooters and scorers

I would't call Iowa's scorers "dangerous" Just guard them and they are non factors.

 

[FancyRex]

I think the amount of fast break points is also a big part of it. Other conferences have teams that are more than happy to run up and down the court. TCU started conference play like that, but was shut down very quickly. Those athletes don’t really matter as much if you get back on defense.

Agree whole heartedly, because they face these hard nosed defenses and all of a sudden the fast pace sprint the court offense turns into 14 turnovers and 28 fast break points the other way and your own speed offense is used to kill you.

 

[alarson]

In theory different eyes would favor different styles and things would even out.

I don't think that computers and analytics should be taken out of consideration. But I do wonder if any conference gets locked into it's own echo chamber and you don't really know who is good.

Except some styles are more 'pleasing to the eye' than others, even if that doesn't change their effectiveness.

A lot of big 12 games are ugly, ugly looking games, while still displaying high level performances.

 

[HFCS]

Wow. Which topic does everyone want? Best conference top to bottom or the conference with the most final 4 teams? Apples and oranges.

Houston and UConn are the only teams that seem like somewhat safe final four guesses.

I live in reality where Purdue gets bounced first weekend nearly every year even with a 1/2 seed.

 

[FancyRex]

I would't call Iowa's scorers "dangerous" Just guard them and they are non factors.

Also they are soft inside. I don't understand why teams aren't just beating them up in the paint.

 

[JVAR]

I do happen to think the big 12 is the best conference, but the gap between the big 12 and the other conferences is much much closer than many people around here make it out to be.

I agree completely. This may not mean as much now because we are late in the conference season, but the B12 has the best non conference record this year. I do know some teams with a weak SOS could have padded this a bit.

 

[Texbudman]

I've been watching other conferences all season, and if you've only watched other conference games that include two of the best teams of that conference, like Tennessee and Alabama, I'm sure you would come away impressed. The top of the conference isn't what sets the Big XII apart, its the teams in the middle and bottom. There are no nights off. Every team is capable of beating you if you have an off night.

As for this reminding you of last year, we ended the conference 1-4 last year. I don't think there is a single thing about this team that reminds me of the fade from last years team other than a dip in offense because we are playing really good defensive teams. We're still winning.

And we have way more options on offense than we did last year

 

[HFCS]

I agree completely. This may not mean as much now because we are late in the conference season, but the B12 has the best non conference record this year. I do know some teams with a weak SOS could have padded this a bit.

We can’t buy into the narrative from people trying to give big ten and auto bye in the cfp.

None of those people are saying big 12 mbb champ should start in sweet 16.