Been watching non Big 12 basketball lately...

[CyCrazy]

Statistically speaking I am not crazy. Go look at the stats. Iowa has better shooters and scorers than we do. One game sample size against us be damned, I'm looking at the 30 game sample size.

And the B10 doesnt play much defense.

 

[TClone99]

Statistically speaking I am not crazy. Go look at the stats. Iowa has better shooters and scorers than we do. One game sample size against us be damned, I'm looking at the 30 game sample size.

Iowa has guys that can score at the expense of having nobody that can protect the basket or consistently stop dribble penetration. That’s an awful formula unless you just want to win when your shots are falling or you can shoot 30 FTs.

 

[Clone9]

We play better team ball than Iowa, yes, that part is clear. But Iowa has scorers and shot makers, still, on another level than we do, as has been the case every year so far under TJ. I'm not saying they're better than us.

I'm just saying it would be nice to have some more shot makers. Because our offense still bogs down horribly.

Do you realize there is a whole second half of the game called defense?

 

[Letterkenny]

I don't know enough about the other conferences.

But I will say that I don't like that the NCAA committee depends so much on metrics now and not on how teams actually look. I'm glad that it benefits the Big 12, but I can understand why other conferences don't like it.

Basing seeding on metrics is the only way. Think about what it would take to get an accurate "eye" test for each team. Let's say a committee member watches half the games from the top 100 teams. That's 100 games per week. Some of those will be overlap, let's say 40% of them. So that's 60 games per week they'd have to watch, at 2 hours per game. That's 120 hours per week, for a committee member to only watch half the games of tournament potential teams. There is no way to accurately base seeding by watching games. It cannot be done with any accuracy whatsoever just based on the shear number of teams involved.

 

[Mr.G.Spot]

Wow. Which topic does everyone want? Best conference top to bottom or the conference with the most final 4 teams? Apples and oranges.

 

[Cyowa 14]

We play better team ball than Iowa, yes, that part is clear. But Iowa has scorers and shot makers, still, on another level than we do, as has been the case every year so far under TJ. I'm not saying they're better than us.

I'm just saying it would be nice to have some more shot makers. Because our offense still bogs down horribly.

I don't think you fully comprehend how much bigger, faster, and more athletic our bigs our/were than Iowa. And Lipsey and Gilbert absolutely toyed with their guards as well. You are right they have better shooters but ISU is an absolute horrendous matchup for Iowa

 

[bluestarcyclone]

Basing seeding on metrics is the only way. Think about what it would take to get an accurate "eye" test for each team. Let's say a committee member watches half the games from the top 100 teams. That's 100 games per week. Some of those will be overlap, let's say 40% of them. So that's 60 games per week they'd have to watch, at 2 hours per game. That's 120 hours per week, for a committee member to only watch half the games of tournament potential teams. There is no way to accurately base seeding by watching games. It cannot be done with any accuracy whatsoever just based on the shear number of teams involved.

Plus one of the great things about college basketball is you see a lot of different styles and ways teams find ways to win.

An 'eye test' allows biases to come in that favor certain styles rather than objectively looking at performance.

 

[Texbudman]

I admittedly haven't watched a lot of non Iowa Big 10 games, but objectively speaking if you were a fan of an opposing team, would you rather your team have to defend Iowa or Iowa State? It's Iowa State and not even close. Now you throw defense into the occasion and the answer definitely changes. I guess I just look around at other teams that have clear alphas on offense and I wonder why in year 3 of TJ we still don't have one. Even 15-13 NIT bound UCF had a couple players I'd trust more with the game on the line to get a bucket over any of our guys.

But we’ve seen firsthand what happens when you play great defense against Iowa. And as for UCF’s playmakers how many buckets did they get down the stretch yesterday? I get what you’re saying about us not having a #1 go to guy but I actually think that’s why we’ve been so successful-somebody different can step up at any given time. I like balance

 

[coolerifyoudid]

There are definitely more gifted offensive teams in other conferences, however their stats are also skewed by playing against less-aggressive defenses. Less-contested shots are gonna fall at a higher clip.

My two biggest concerns from a conference-standpoint in the tourney:
- tightly officiated games where our best players are riding pine early
- the toll that the physicality has taken on several Big XII teams. We're witnessing it a bit with our guys and I'm sure we're not alone.

 

[Clonehomer]

There are several SEC teams that can certainly put up points. But I don’t know if anyone can confidently say they can put up points against a solid defense because they haven’t seen one all season.

The Big East is where I’d be concerned. I wouldn’t like our chances against Creighton. They can shoot, they have size, and can play defense.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Do you realize there is a whole second half of the game called defense?

I do, but when people look back on this season 20 years from now, will they realize it? No, they will just be looking at stats and wonder how we were so successful.

Not to get away from my main point, which is concern that at some point, we could get bounced early from the tournament because our shot making and play making has not been there lately. It happened against Pitt last year and it is starting to feel like the formula is there for it to happen again. Our offensive ranking in kenpom has plummeted the last week and a half.

 

[ISUTex]

Statistically speaking I am not crazy. Go look at the stats. Iowa has better shooters and scorers than we do. One game sample size against us be damned, I'm looking at the 30 game sample size.

Yes, but what happens to Iowa's offense when they play a team that actually guards? Like, say, Iowa State? They shoot 30 something %, turn it over 20 times and lose by 30.

 

[AuH2O]

Statistically speaking I am not crazy. Go look at the stats. Iowa has better shooters and scorers than we do. One game sample size against us be damned, I'm looking at the 30 game sample size.

The amount of space I have seen guys operate with in pretty much every Big 10 game I’ve seen makes any traditional stats pretty much useless. Illinois is the only team I’ve seen that even pressures the ball on the perimeter. Big 10 might have more skilled players, but the games are so different. It’s easy to hit shots when you have space to operate.

 

[ISUTex]

I don't think you fully comprehend how much bigger, faster, and more athletic our bigs our/were than Iowa. And Lipsey and Gilbert absolutely toyed with their guards as well. You are right they have better shooters but ISU is an absolute horrendous matchup for Iowa

Grinnell College probably has better shooters than Iowa. What does that even mean?

 

[AlaCyclone]

I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I had a similar thought yesterday thinking that both Tennessee and Alabama looked like NBA teams (size-wise) when the Vols were at the free throw line - just looking at the players. Maybe, it was just the camera angle or something?

 

[ESciGuy]

I'm sure I'm in the minority on this board but unless an easier than expected path opens up for a Big 12 team the only one that I think can make it to a Final 4 is Houston. Even with them all it takes is a tightly called game and then they could have a major issue.

 

[CloneIce]

I tend to agree that the Big 12 is a little overrated. It’s the best conference, but it’s still pretty close to others in quality. It’s just deeper.

But I really don’t understand the Iowa comparison. We smoked them by 30 points.

 

[atlantacyclone]

And I think those pundits who think the Big 12 is overrated may be on to something. As fans of a Big 12 team, I fear we may all be high on our own supply. The other conferences, namely the SEC, are filled with teams at the top that will be dancing that have more size, athleticism, and playmakers than what I'm seeing from most Big 12 teams on a game by game basis. I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I also look at some Big 10 teams and although the metrics would tell you we are a lot better than a team like say Iowa for example, who likely won't even be dancing in a couple weeks, they have legit playmakers more so than anything we have individually. They've got 3 guys averaging more ppg than our highest scorer. Another guy still averaging under 9 ppg but has scored 20+ the last 3 games. I know Big 10 defense isn't what we see in the Big 12 either, but offensively I am really starting to have fear that we aren't going to have enough shot making come tournament time. We are still winning games, and that's great, but I am getting some deja vu from last season all of a sudden and not really loving the trend we are on compared to other tournament worthy teams around the country. Given that we are a likely 3 or even 2 seed, I love our chances at avoiding a first round defeat, but given what we have offensively, it seems like we could lose to just about any P6 team on any given day. I know this is coming off as a very downer post, but I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way or if I'm crazy.

I know that teams improve… but didn’t we handle Iowa by 25?

 

[Cyinthenorth]

I had a similar thought yesterday thinking that both Tennessee and Alabama looked like NBA teams (size-wise) when the Vols were at the free throw line - just looking at the players. Maybe, it was just the camera angle or something?

Not sure but both looked like they'd pose very difficult matchups for us

 

[HFCS]

And I think those pundits who think the Big 12 is overrated may be on to something. As fans of a Big 12 team, I fear we may all be high on our own supply. The other conferences, namely the SEC, are filled with teams at the top that will be dancing that have more size, athleticism, and playmakers than what I'm seeing from most Big 12 teams on a game by game basis. I watched Alabama vs Tennessee last night and came away from it almost praying that if Iowa State does run into a team like that in the tournament it isn't until the elite 8 or final 4. Both teams were big and rangy, with 3 point shooters 1-5.

I also look at some Big 10 teams and although the metrics would tell you we are a lot better than a team like say Iowa for example, who likely won't even be dancing in a couple weeks, they have legit playmakers more so than anything we have individually. They've got 3 guys averaging more ppg than our highest scorer. Another guy still averaging under 9 ppg but has scored 20+ the last 3 games. I know Big 10 defense isn't what we see in the Big 12 either, but offensively I am really starting to have fear that we aren't going to have enough shot making come tournament time. We are still winning games, and that's great, but I am getting some deja vu from last season all of a sudden and not really loving the trend we are on compared to other tournament worthy teams around the country. Given that we are a likely 3 or even 2 seed, I love our chances at avoiding a first round defeat, but given what we have offensively, it seems like we could lose to just about any P6 team on any given day. I know this is coming off as a very downer post, but I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is feeling this way or if I'm crazy.

The MWC has been objectively better in ncaa past few years than big ten. You’re smoking crack on that one.

SEC I agree could have lots of dangerous teams in top half.