Succession on HBO

[SolterraCyclone]

I thought the ending was good, but not one of the best I’ve ever seen (like people were predicting ahead of time).

I was ok with Kendall’s arc. I think his lack of growth was kind of the point. Over the course of the series he had ebbs and flows, but he was still the same spoiled, pathetic child like he has always been. This was exemplified by his cringe-worthy, desperate attempt to sway Shiv at the board meeting. And, as a result, at the end he was left alone and without any power at all.

The problem I had with the series finale was Shiv’s heel-turn. There had to be some legwork put into that for the audience to go “oh ****”. To me, it came too far out of left field. They needed to add a couple scenes showing it was clear there was no path to power following her brothers, that would have led to this decision. As it was, she kind of fell on her sword for the good of the company. Which is so against her character, or any character in the series for that matter.

I also would have liked to see a scene showing the irony of Tom having the power in the relationship now and her latching on to him, as he had done with her during all the previous seasons.

 

[Cyclones01]

I thought the ending was good, but not one of the best I’ve ever seen (like people were predicting ahead of time).

I was ok with Kendall’s arc. I think his lack of growth was kind of the point. Over the course of the series he had ebbs and flows, but he was still the same spoiled, pathetic child like he has always been. This was exemplified by his cringe-worthy, desperate attempt to sway Shiv at the board meeting. And, as a result, at the end he was left alone and without any power at all.

The problem I had with the series finale was Shiv’s heel-turn. There had to be some legwork put into that for the audience to go “oh ****”. To me, it came too far out of left field. They needed to add a couple scenes showing it was clear there was no path to power following her brothers, that would have led to this decision. As it was, she kind of fell on her sword for the good of the company. Which is so against her character, or any character in the series for that matter.

I also would have liked to see a scene showing the irony of Tom having the power in the relationship now and her latching on to him, as he had done with her during all the previous seasons.

I thought the closing scene for the two of them in the limo accomplished that pretty well.

I agree about the sudden twist with Shiv's vote, especially after how mad she was when Tom told her it was going to be him. I'm left feeling that there could have been a different outcome if Kendall had just waited longer to tell Shiv about Mattson's betrayal, using her anger to his advantage.

 

[HGoat1]

What a show. I’m going to miss it a lot.

Thought the finale was good and the final season was so good. Which is rare. One of my favorites series.

 

[SolarGarlic]

I thought the ending was good, but not one of the best I’ve ever seen (like people were predicting ahead of time).

I was ok with Kendall’s arc. I think his lack of growth was kind of the point. Over the course of the series he had ebbs and flows, but he was still the same spoiled, pathetic child like he has always been. This was exemplified by his cringe-worthy, desperate attempt to sway Shiv at the board meeting. And, as a result, at the end he was left alone and without any power at all.

The problem I had with the series finale was Shiv’s heel-turn. There had to be some legwork put into that for the audience to go “oh ****”. To me, it came too far out of left field. They needed to add a couple scenes showing it was clear there was no path to power following her brothers, that would have led to this decision. As it was, she kind of fell on her sword for the good of the company. Which is so against her character, or any character in the series for that matter.

I also would have liked to see a scene showing the irony of Tom having the power in the relationship now and her latching on to him, as he had done with her during all the previous seasons.

That wasn't her motivation at all. She simply didn't want Kendall to be in power out of jealousy and thought it was more beneficial for her to be on Tom's side.

Did you not see their final scene? How was that not Tom showing power? It wasn't a romantic gesture. Everything about Tom's behavior after the deal was that of a king commanding obedience and submission.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

That wasn't her motivation at all. She simply didn't want Kendall to be in power out of jealousy and thought it was more beneficial for her to be on Tom's side.

Did you not see their final scene? How was that not Tom showing power? It wasn't a romantic gesture. Everything about Tom's behavior after the deal was that of a king commanding obedience and submission.

That wasn’t really made clear though, considering the last interaction we saw with her and Tom prior to the board vote she was flipping out on him. And the last scene we had with Shiv and Kendall they were buddy buddy in the kitchen.

What led to her change in mind? There’s nothing foreshadowing her “betrayal” at all. If anything it would have made more sense to have Roman change his vote since he was waffling at the end. But, he was such a weak human being it still would have been out of character for him to go against the family like that.

For the final scene, someone described it as The Graduate ending which is kind of how I interpreted too. They both made impulsive decisions (mostly Shiv) and now there is this uneasy sense of doom around the partnership moving forward (signified by they not actually clasping hands, but Shiv just resting hers on his).

I didn’t feel like Tom was exuding a king-like confidence there. But I probably need to rewatch it again.

 

[CydeofFries]

That wasn’t really made clear though, considering the last interaction we saw with her and Tom prior to the board vote she was flipping out on him. And the last scene we had with Shiv and Kendall they were buddy buddy in the kitchen.

What led to her change in mind? There’s nothing foreshadowing her “betrayal” at all. If anything it would have made more sense to have Roman change his vote since he was waffling at the end. But, he was such a weak human being it still would have been out of character for him to go against the family like that.

For the final scene, someone described it as The Graduate ending which is kind of how I interpreted too. They both made impulsive decisions (mostly Shiv) and now there is this uneasy sense of doom around the partnership moving forward (signified by they not actually clasping hands, but Shiv just resting hers on his).

I didn’t feel like Tom was exuding a king-like confidence there. But I probably need to rewatch it again.

Something like Tom poking his head around the corner during the vote or Shiv ignoring a phone call from him would have gone a long way. OR Kendall mentioning the family lawyer and going for custody of the kids to bring Shiv to the I can't stomach you point was really all I was looking for.

Looking back on this season, I feel like each individual episode was great but overall felt rushed. Having it take place over like 10 days was a bizarre choice. The criminal lack of Gerri, Frank, and Karl outside of 1 or 2 scenes total each episode. Plot threads existing only for 1 episode and seeming like a big deal only to never come back up. PGN was a big one, the election controversy was another, but the biggest one was the fake numbers from GoJo. It was so big of a reveal that episode Kendall had reason to believe and began plans to flip the table and buy GoJo themselves (with Frank!), only for it to be handwaved away during the funeral episode.

And don't get me wrong, I am being nitpicky. I did love the show and thought where the characters ended worked, just wished they had expanded the why more.

 

[SolarGarlic]

That wasn’t really made clear though, considering the last interaction we saw with her and Tom prior to the board vote she was flipping out on him. And the last scene we had with Shiv and Kendall they were buddy buddy in the kitchen.

What led to her change in mind? There’s nothing foreshadowing her “betrayal” at all. If anything it would have made more sense to have Roman change his vote since he was waffling at the end. But, he was such a weak human being it still would have been out of character for him to go against the family like that.

For the final scene, someone described it as The Graduate ending which is kind of how I interpreted too. They both made impulsive decisions (mostly Shiv) and now there is this uneasy sense of doom around the partnership moving forward (signified by they not actually clasping hands, but Shiv just resting hers on his).

I didn’t feel like Tom was exuding a king-like confidence there. But I probably need to rewatch it again.

Your first points are fine. But she definitely wasn't doing it for the good of the company. She was doing it because she didn't want Kendall to win. Her storming out of the room and "needing a moment" looked like an impulsive move once the reality of the situation presented itself. She was too petty and competitive to let Kendall have it, which is definitely in character.

Tom is certainly in the power position in that final interaction and Shiv knows it.

 

[SolarGarlic]

Something like Tom poking his head around the corner during the vote or Shiv ignoring a phone call from him would have gone a long way. OR Kendall mentioning the family lawyer and going for custody of the kids to bring Shiv to the I can't stomach you point was really all I was looking for.

Looking back on this season, I feel like each individual episode was great but overall felt rushed. Having it take place over like 10 days was a bizarre choice. The criminal lack of Gerri, Frank, and Karl outside of 1 or 2 scenes total each episode. Plot threads existing only for 1 episode and seeming like a big deal only to never come back up. PGN was a big one, the election controversy was another, but the biggest one was the fake numbers from GoJo. It was so big of a reveal that episode Kendall had reason to believe and began plans to flip the table and buy GoJo themselves (with Frank!), only for it to be handwaved away during the funeral episode.

And don't get me wrong, I am being nitpicky. I did love the show and thought where the characters ended worked, just wished they had expanded the why more.

What was the election controversy?

The GoJo numbers was the biggest miss to me. It ended up not changing anything.

 

[RonBurgundy]

What was the election controversy?

The GoJo numbers was the biggest miss to me. It ended up not changing anything.

ATN called WI for Mencken after thousands of mail-in ballots got burned in a fire. Mencken had a lead, but their own election analyst predicted the burned up ballets would have swung the state. We never got any Gore v Bush lawsuit drama that I thought was coming.

 

[RonBurgundy]

Tom putting that sticker on Greg and then making Shiv “kiss the ring” with his move in the car was a great story arc for him.

I really liked Connor’s story arc also. Him lowballing Logan’s apartment out from Marcia was hilarious.

 

[SolterraCyclone]

Your first points are fine. But she definitely wasn't doing it for the good of the company. She was doing it because she didn't want Kendall to win. Her storming out of the room and "needing a moment" looked like an impulsive move once the reality of the situation presented itself. She was too petty and competitive to let Kendall have it, which is definitely in character.

Tom is certainly in the power position in that final interaction and Shiv knows it.

Yeah I agree with you that she wasn’t doing it for the good of the company. But that’s how it came across to me, because there was no groundwork laying a motivation for her to do that.

Tom is in the position of power. My first watch of that scene, I didn’t come away from that car scene thinking Tom was acting like the king though. But, multiple people have disagreed with me on that. So I probably just need to rewatch it

 

[SolterraCyclone]

Something like Tom poking his head around the corner during the vote or Shiv ignoring a phone call from him would have gone a long way. OR Kendall mentioning the family lawyer and going for custody of the kids to bring Shiv to the I can't stomach you point was really all I was looking for.

Looking back on this season, I feel like each individual episode was great but overall felt rushed. Having it take place over like 10 days was a bizarre choice. The criminal lack of Gerri, Frank, and Karl outside of 1 or 2 scenes total each episode. Plot threads existing only for 1 episode and seeming like a big deal only to never come back up. PGN was a big one, the election controversy was another, but the biggest one was the fake numbers from GoJo. It was so big of a reveal that episode Kendall had reason to believe and began plans to flip the table and buy GoJo themselves (with Frank!), only for it to be handwaved away during the funeral episode.

And don't get me wrong, I am being nitpicky. I did love the show and thought where the characters ended worked, just wished they had expanded the why more.

I definitely agree with this. The PGN purchase, GOJO numbers, and the election all seemed like major story points that would have an impact on how the story ended, while watching those episodes. In reality, their only purpose was to signal a major win/loss for a character in that episode or the following one. PGN purchase = Logan loss, GOJO numbers = Kendall win, election night = Roman win (then subsequent loss in the next episode)

I also am being super nit picky. Great season, good finale.

 

[clonechemist]

Finally got to watch the episode. I enjoyed it and certainly didn’t see Shiv’s change of heart coming.

But I do think it makes sense in terms of her relationship with Tom - her behavior with the baby for this whole season has shown she is on the fence about what she wants. Then the last time she brings up the possibility of staying married to Tom, he really shuts it down for once - that, in combination with finding out he’ll be CEO under Mattson, maybe makes her more attracted to him since it’s tipped the balance of power (and if she’s thinking about her kid, it may be ‘better’ for the kid to be son of the CEO rather than nephew). But it’s clearly still a pretty transactional relationship, as evidenced by the tenuous hand-holding action in the last car scene.

 

[Gunnerclone]

I thought the closing scene for the two of them in the limo accomplished that pretty well.

I agree about the sudden twist with Shiv's vote, especially after how mad she was when Tom told her it was going to be him. I'm left feeling that there could have been a different outcome if Kendall had just waited longer to tell Shiv about Mattson's betrayal, using her anger to his advantage.

The bottom line for Shiv is two fold in this situation:

1) she always tries to stay in touch with where the power is due to her political background
2) she has Tom’s baby and she hates her mom

 

[JP4CY]

I honestly thought that when Shiv was looking into the room at Roman signing the papers, that she would change her vote to NO.

 

[SolarGarlic]

 

[SolarGarlic]

ATN called WI for Mencken after thousands of mail-in ballots got burned in a fire. Mencken had a lead, but their own election analyst predicted the burned up ballets would have swung the state. We never got any Gore v Bush lawsuit drama that I thought was coming.

Mencken was essentially declared the winner by Roman and Tom. That cleared the way for the GoJo deal to go through once Matsson was able to talk with Mencken. It also set up the "American CEO" part of the story.

A full election lawsuit arc would've been a weird detour. It's not an American politics drama.

 

[isufbcurt]

Just watched it. What a BS ending!! Shiv proved to be a huge *****!! F Her.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Just watched it. What a BS ending!! Shiv proved to be a huge *****!! F Her.

“Shiv” was not an accidental name choice.

 

[cyclo120]

Loved the show, would of watched for 10 more seasons. Been thinking about a Tom/Shiv spin-off would also love to watch multiple seasons of that. But sorry as good as this was don’t put in the Breaking Bad and the The Wire ranks (insert your best dramas) because close but not quite.