Caleb Grill has been dismissed from team

[Clonefan32]

I have no problem with Grill standing up for one of his guys. Pretty soft T, but the refs were trying to get control of the game.

I think the whole thing was probably called correctly. A F2 was justified on the WVU player, and I don't think there's any doubt Jaz kicked his legs knowing they were tangled up. At that point Grill saw the WVU standing over Jaz and reacted, which I guess I kind of get. Jaz had just gotten clocked then had the guy standing over him and you've got to protect your guy.

Did the WVU player also get a T on top of the F2? I missed that part and honestly I have no idea how it would have played into the freethrows/possession. He definitely deserved one on top of the F2 for standing over Jaz like that.

 

[cyups2323]

All the talk about TJ not 'working' the refs is just another way of saying 'I'm mad/frustrated and can't do anything about it. It's not fair, poor me, poor ISU, this only ever happens to us and will always keep happening to us.' It's a bs victim mentality that isn't helpful to anyone. It may or may not get us an extra call or two a game, but at the expense of instilling an excuse-making culture.

As I stated earlier I strongly believe the way the game is called is affected by the other coach's constantly being in the refs ear and TJ just standing there like a choir boy. I love every thing about TJ, I love our culture but both can happen. Standing up for your guys isn't gonna suddenly ruin our culture. In fact fighting for your guys who fight their asses off for you every night might improve our culture. You can believe what you want but I saw it first hand last night. Huggins was in the refs ear the entire night and the free throw disparity was 12-0 down the stretch. Do you honestly believe wv didn't commit a foul in the last 4 mins?

 

[Clonefan32]

As I stated earlier I strongly believe the way the game is called is affected by the other coach's constantly being in the refs ear and TJ just standing there like a choir boy. I love every thing about TJ, I love our culture but both can happen. Standing up for your guys isn't gonna suddenly ruin our culture. In fact fighting for your guys who fight their asses off for you every night might improve our culture. You can believe what you want but I saw it first hand last night. Huggins was in the refs ear the entire night and the free throw disparity was 12-0 down the stretch. Do you honestly believe wv didn't commit a foul in the last 4 mins?

I'd honestly challenge you to find a no call the last 4 minutes. I honestly don't think they did foul us. We took nothing but jumpshots late and they attacked.

There seems to be some confusion that foul disparity is illegal or something. But teams that attack are going to benefit from more foul calls. That's how basketball works. You aren't going to get many opportunities at the line when you operate your offense 30 feet from the basket and take a contested 18-22 footer. That's why it is so baffling that we didn't try to go in to Shoon or Tre when they went small.

 

[Antihawk240]

As unfortunate as it was the Officials had to call it. Any and everyone saw this game turning into a fight. Flagrant 2 ejected the kid. They rung Jazz up on the kick and T'd up Grill. Yes, I think the T was a tad soft..... but the game had turned extremely physical and was borderline out of control.

It was an unfortunate turn of events but the message was sent- look at the game after that it simmered down and basketball resumed. Again, unfortunately Iowa State lost but the refs used the opportunity to get the game settled back down. It worked.

 

[carvers4math]

I think the whole thing was probably called correctly. A F2 was justified on the WVU player, and I don't think there's any doubt Jaz kicked his legs knowing they were tangled up. At that point Grill saw the WVU standing over Jaz and reacted, which I guess I kind of get. Jaz had just gotten clocked then had the guy standing over him and you've got to protect your guy.

Did the WVU player also get a T on top of the F2? I missed that part and honestly I have no idea how it would have played into the freethrows/possession. He definitely deserved one on top of the F2 for standing over Jaz like that.

I don’t think he got a T but he should have. Although I had Walters and Heft and they were unsure what was going on, put them on with the TV instead of Settles.

The bad part of not giving him a technical is he already did enough to get tossed so he apparently felt free to just go at Jaz.

 

[cyups2323]

I'd honestly challenge you to find a no call the last 4 minutes. I honestly don't think they did foul us. We took nothing but jumpshots late and they attacked.

There seems to be some confusion that foul disparity is illegal or something. But teams that attack are going to benefit from more foul calls. That's how basketball works. You aren't going to get many opportunities at the line when you operate your offense 30 feet from the basket and take a contested 18-22 footer. That's why it is so baffling that we didn't try to go in to Shoon or Tre when they went small.

Unless you are wv, then you get a foul call on a jump shot.

 

[jsb]

I'm not a hard disagree with you on this point. However, I think one of the issues with the last regime was "Do as I say, not as I do." If T.J. is preaching calmness and then he simply loses his **** on a ref it is a little more difficult to continue to preach calmness in the huddle.

Yeah, but it’s not working now. They aren’t staying calm.

And again I’m not saying he needs completely shift. I’m just saying that a well placed technical probably wouldn’t hurt.

Haven’t we all lost our temper with a spouse or a kid or a friend? What happens? People apologize and move on.

I assume Caleb apologized and I’d hope TJ would move on. If TJ gets a technical, he’d apologize and move on.

It only becomes a problem (at least with his philosophy) if TJ starts getting many technicals.

 

[carvers4math]

Unless you are wv, then you get a foul call on a jump shot.

With all parts of the defender at least two feet away from the shooter

 

[SCNCY]

I think the whole thing was probably called correctly. A F2 was justified on the WVU player, and I don't think there's any doubt Jaz kicked his legs knowing they were tangled up. At that point Grill saw the WVU standing over Jaz and reacted, which I guess I kind of get. Jaz had just gotten clocked then had the guy standing over him and you've got to protect your guy.

Did the WVU player also get a T on top of the F2? I missed that part and honestly I have no idea how it would have played into the freethrows/possession. He definitely deserved one on top of the F2 for standing over Jaz like that.

I think what Caleb did didn't warrant a foul, but because of his behavior the second half of conference play, the refs have a short leash on him. Otherwise, I don't think that gets called.

 

[Antihawk240]

TJ should have gone full Fran McCaffrey. Pouty face stare down. Worked for Fran! He got the W and no technical was issued.

You all wanting TJ to get a technical......becareful what you wish for.

 

[4theCYcle]

This is the second game I remember where Grill's temper caused a 5 point swing. He is a senior and needs to be more disciplined than that. He needs to stop fighting. It cost us the game tonight. We had momentum at that time, about to take 2 free throws, and get the ball back. Instead Bone Head Grill gets his own technical which ends up giving WV the ball. Momentum completely switched at that point and we couldn't buy a bucket. Bench Grill until he ages out of college. He is just a liability at this point. He doesn't score, misses free throws, gets technicals at key moments, and can't keep his temper in check.

Was a 7 point swing with 2 missed free throws. But same difference. I agree, be better than that as a senior. He's known as a lighter Grayson Allen in the b12. Not a great representation of ISU. Hope he learns from it, but I have my doubts.

 

[Halincandenza]

Yeah, but it’s not working now. They aren’t staying calm.

And again I’m not saying he needs completely shift. I’m just saying that a well placed technical probably wouldn’t hurt.

Haven’t we all lost our temper with a spouse or a kid or a friend? What happens? People apologize and move on.

I assume Caleb apologized and I’d hope TJ would move on. If TJ gets a technical, he’d apologize and move on.

It only becomes a problem (at least with his philosophy) if TJ starts getting many technicals.

There are certain times you just need to go off on the refs. I think the reason it got to the point it did last night when the flagrant and technicals happened was because the refs let it get out of control with the physicality. Maybe if TJ goes off on the refs earlier they would have started to cut out some of the extra physical play.
I watched the WVU KU game the other day and that is exactly what Self did. WVU was grabbing holding pushing like they usually do and nothing was getting called and finally Self just blew up on the refs and it seemed to help. I also think by not doing anything and letting the ultra physical play continue, ISU players start trying to counter WVU's play and that just messes things up for themselves.
That Jones play where he wasn't even trying to block out Bell he was just trying to get into a shoving match with him was an example. He wasn't focused on turning and blocking the Bell out,

 

[BCClone]

As I stated earlier I strongly believe the way the game is called is affected by the other coach's constantly being in the refs ear and TJ just standing there like a choir boy. I love every thing about TJ, I love our culture but both can happen. Standing up for your guys isn't gonna suddenly ruin our culture. In fact fighting for your guys who fight their asses off for you every night might improve our culture. You can believe what you want but I saw it first hand last night. Huggins was in the refs ear the entire night and the free throw disparity was 12-0 down the stretch. Do you honestly believe wv didn't commit a foul in the last 4 mins?

I just want the Fred level of working the refs. He didn't get a T, except the one he asked for in the tourney, and his guys were always calm although he was in the refs ear and showing displeasure with calls several times. The players can be calm, while the coach is still have a non-casual, non-Fran type, discussion with the ref.

 

[Halincandenza]

I don't know why Grill developed into this hot head. You can play with passion without costing your team points. He isn't that good of player to be doing crap like that. Especially now that his injury has basically made him useless out there.

 

[cyups2323]

I just want the Fred level of working the refs. He didn't get a T, except the one he asked for in the tourney, and his guys were always calm although he was in the refs ear and showing displeasure with calls several times. The players can be calm, while the coach is still have a non-casual, non-Fran type, discussion with the ref.

I completely agree with the Fred level of working refs. Fred was really calm most of the time but you got the sense that when he lost his mind from time to time the refs really thought they may have missed one for Fred to do that. I kinda feel like the refs could let wv play with 6 players and tj would stand there with his hands on his wast with a slight scowl hinting that he doesn't agree but still not gonna say anything.

 

[jsb]

I don't know why Grill developed into this hot head. You can play with passion without costing your team points. He isn't that good of player to be doing crap like that. Especially now that his injury has basically made him useless out there.

He is doing it because he’s mad because he’s being screwed over. It’s pretty simple.

 

[CloniesForLife]

He is doing it because he’s mad because he’s being screwed over. It’s pretty simple.

You don't know that. You're speculating. Look, I'd like TJ to work the refs a little more but you and others latching onto him not getting a technical as if it is the root cause of our problems is annoying. Would it help? Sure. Is it the reason we've struggled down the stretch. A little maybe, but it's down the list.

I know you don't like TJ and want to needle at him any chance you get though.

 

[AuH2O]

As unfortunate as it was the Officials had to call it. Any and everyone saw this game turning into a fight. Flagrant 2 ejected the kid. They rung Jazz up on the kick and T'd up Grill. Yes, I think the T was a tad soft..... but the game had turned extremely physical and was borderline out of control.

It was an unfortunate turn of events but the message was sent- look at the game after that it simmered down and basketball resumed. Again, unfortunately Iowa State lost but the refs used the opportunity to get the game settled back down. It worked.

Jaz didn't get a T. They let the kicking or whatever you call it slide. And I would not classify it as Mitchell elbowing him then standing over Jaz. He elbowed him, then was facing the ref and complaining with his back turned to Jaz. Jaz then kicked at him in the upper thigh and got his legs tangled up with Mitchell, then Mitchell turns around and stands over him.

They got two shots and the ball because the last foul was Grill's T.

EDIT: This is incorrect, both Jaz and Grill got T'd up. I thought only Grill got a T because they shot 2. Forgot that dead ball Tech is only one shot.

 

[CloniesForLife]

Jaz didn't get a T. They let the kicking or whatever you call it slide. And I would not classify it as Mitchell elbowing him then standing over Jaz. He elbowed him, then was facing the ref and complaining with his back turned to Jaz. Jaz then kicked at him in the upper thigh and got his legs tangled up with Mitchell, then Mitchell turns around and stands over him.

They got two shots and the ball because the last foul was Grill's T.

Jaz did get a T I'm pretty sure.

 

[3TrueFans]

Jaz didn't get a T. They let the kicking or whatever you call it slide. And I would not classify it as Mitchell elbowing him then standing over Jaz. He elbowed him, then was facing the ref and complaining with his back turned to Jaz. Jaz then kicked at him in the upper thigh and got his legs tangled up with Mitchell, then Mitchell turns around and stands over him.

They got two shots and the ball because the last foul was Grill's T.

Jaz did get a T, at least according to the play by play. Flagrant 2 on WVU, Dead ball technicals on Jaz and Caleb