Big 12 Tournament: Anyone Could Win

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AuH2O

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Last year KU won the conference championship and then went on to win the whole thing.

2021: Texas, won first round, lost second round to #3 seed Purdue

2020: covid

2019: ISU, lost first round to Ohio State

2018: KU, final four run

2017: ISU, lost second round to Purdue
I think this suggests winning it doesn't have much impact on a team, good or bad. I'd say all of those NCAA tournament results are within reason of what you'd expect from each team given the regular season.

In fact, I'd say getting bounced in the semis in 2021 didn't hurt NC Baylor, or getting bounced in their first game in 2019 didn't hurt TTUs run to the NC game.

Not to mention ISU got freaking smoked by TTU in KC last year and went to the Sweet 16.

So the more I look at it the "successes" of the Big 12 tournament momentum are teams making runs that were in line with their regular season success. I see a lot more cases of teams bowing out early and having it not negatively impact their NCAA tourney. In other words, I don't think there is significant positive momentum gained by winning the Big 12 tournament.

If you can win it and bump up a seed or two, especially in a case where it might get ISU a Des Moines game, then it's pretty important. But as to indicating an over- or under-performance vs. the regular season due to momentum, it seems like that is not the case.
 

cyclones500

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I caught myself. I kinda conflate those teams in my mind (those were my very formative years of ISU basketball).

'97 should have been an Elite 8 season, but Cameron ******* Dollar...

Occasionally I mentally get off a year on that myself.

Also yeah, that Dollar push still lingers. To be fair, ISU did squander a 16-point (?) lead, so it probably shouldn't have come down to that.
 
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cyclones500

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This overlaps with other comments ... There probably has been analysis about league tournament title & NCAAT performance (can't say without a bit of rabbit-holing) -- but so many variables are involved and each situation is unique, you couldn't make a definitive correlation.

As @CascadeClone said earlier, if it was some kind of either/or choice, of course you choose NCAAT.
 

Al_4_State

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Occasionally I mentally get off a year on that myself.

Also yeah, that Dollar push still lingers. To be fair, ISU did squander a 16-point (?) lead, so it probably shouldn't have come down to that.
I don't remember the details that well, but I was being such a lunatic that my mom made me go to bed before the game was over, and I laid in bed listening to Pete call the game winning coast to coast lay up and cried myself to sleep. I was 11 at the time.
 
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coolerifyoudid

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I'll stick with my stance that winning > losing in the conference tourney, but there's probably not much concrete data to support if the conference tourney results affect March Madness results significantly. It still comes down to match-ups and one freaking game. Cold shooting loses to hot shooting in even the most lop-sided looking match-ups.

In March Madness last year, we were a tough team to scout because our only consistent identifying traits were "relentless defense" and "Brockington goes to his left". Our own fanbase couldn't have predicted Kalscheur and Hunter going off in March, so other teams couldn't either.

I realize we want to win the regular season title and have success in the Big Dance first, but I get tired of people minimizing the conference tournament title. It's pretty ******* hard to win. By the times teams face off in KC, they will have faced each other twice already and have a solid idea of what to expect. And we have some REALLY good coaches in this league.
 

LanningIsBakersDaddy

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I'll stick with my stance that winning > losing in the conference tourney, but there's probably not much concrete data to support if the conference tourney results affect March Madness results significantly. It still comes down to match-ups and one freaking game. Cold shooting loses to hot shooting in even the most lop-sided looking match-ups.

In March Madness last year, we were a tough team to scout because our only consistent identifying traits were "relentless defense" and "Brockington goes to his left". Our own fanbase couldn't have predicted Kalscheur and Hunter going off in March, so other teams couldn't either.

I realize we want to win the regular season title and have success in the Big Dance first, but I get tired of people minimizing the conference tournament title. It's pretty ******* hard to win. By the times teams face off in KC, they will have faced each other twice already and have a solid idea of what to expect. And we have some REALLY good coaches in this league.
Totally agree. I can't imagine the extra time off is better than the momentum gained from winning three games AND the positive movement on a team's seed in the NCAA tournament from winning those games.
 

Al_4_State

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I'll stick with my stance that winning > losing in the conference tourney, but there's probably not much concrete data to support if the conference tourney results affect March Madness results significantly. It still comes down to match-ups and one freaking game. Cold shooting loses to hot shooting in even the most lop-sided looking match-ups.

In March Madness last year, we were a tough team to scout because our only consistent identifying traits were "relentless defense" and "Brockington goes to his left". Our own fanbase couldn't have predicted Kalscheur and Hunter going off in March, so other teams couldn't either.

I realize we want to win the regular season title and have success in the Big Dance first, but I get tired of people minimizing the conference tournament title. It's pretty ******* hard to win. By the times teams face off in KC, they will have faced each other twice already and have a solid idea of what to expect. And we have some REALLY good coaches in this league.
100% this. March Madness is the most popular sporting event outside of the Super Bowl for this exact reason. It's just total chaos and anything can happen.

So at the end of the day, debating over whether or not you want to win the conference tournament is silly because you want to win any hardware you can. That's the point of sports.
 

Al_4_State

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The other thing that just chaps my ass about how people minimize the conference tournament, is how in football we ONLY recognize the equivalent of the conference tournament, and winning the regular season isn't even recognized. ISU won the 2020 Big 12 regular season outright in football and we still have to look at that stupid ******* 1912 graphic because we lost a close one the rematch championship game.

And then in basketball everyone has to chime and say we aren't really champions, we're tournament champions.

It feels like we're a kid on the playground being bullied by the other kids changing the rules on the fly so the only real rule of the game is whatever the bullied kid does is wrong.
 

Cy4All

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Win, Win, Win, and Win again. Winning is always better than losing. History remembers championships AND tournament wins. Couple that with the thought that the higher seed the Cyclones are the better chance to play in Des Moines. I want them in dsm so bad.
 
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NorthCyd

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I reject the premise of the question that winning the conference tournament has any bearing on performance in the NCAA tournament.
 

madguy30

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I reject the premise of the question that winning the conference tournament has any bearing on performance in the NCAA tournament.

As fans we've seen all of it happen one way or another.

Some years ISU has continued their trend of good play into the tourney, others they looked to be flying high and fell flat on their face, or like last year they got swamped and then won 2 in the NCAAs.
 

awd4cy

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I would rather make the round of 32 than win the Big 12 tourney. Last years sweet 16 was far more fun than our Big 12 tournament championship in 2019. Plus, what you do in the tournament matters far more in the college basketball world.
 
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Cycsk

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I reject the premise of the question that winning the conference tournament has any bearing on performance in the NCAA tournament.

Surely winning 3 more games in the Big 12 tournament has the potential to increase your rating for NCAA seeding!
 

exCYtable

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Watching KU Texas tonight. Really starting to think Marcus Carr is overrated.
 

cdface

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i would say that this year's team would benefit nicely in NCAA seeding if they win the B12 tournament and finish out the regular season in the top 2 in B12 play. it could easily be a 2-line seed difference, depending on who wins the B12 tournament and how the other conferences finish. getting a 2-seed over a 4-seed would be huge, as an example, even if Des Moines weren't in play. at that point, the Sweet 16 would be kind of a baseline*.

*2001 never happened, right?
 

larry

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ESPN's NCAAM power rankings have 5 Big12 teams in the top ten. At least one of these teams will lose their first game in the BIG12. Winning the Big12 tournament would be huge.