Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[Jkclone15]

The issue is if the Alliance does 8+1+1 (which is far from certain) the Big 12 is going to have more trouble playing good teams in the non-con. I think in that case, playing 9 conference games and trying to play an SEC team just about every year is going to be the move.

Several (4?) ACC teams have rivalry games with SEC schools, plus there's Cyhawk. Also the PAC has two less schools than the ACC and B1G. Plus I wonder how Notre Dame fits (don't they have an ongoing rivalry game with USC?).

tl;dr: it will still be possible to play games against Alliance schools, but probably less opportunities going forward.

 

[isucy86]

Interesting Details Have Emerged From The Alliance's Plan (thespun.com)

I wonder if the big 12 will fall suit and drop to 8 conference games. Would be nice to gain another OOC home game each season.

I don't like the idea of fewer conference games. If anything more conference games to me creates for stronger conference rivalries. Don't know why the Alliance won't mean a 9:1:1:2 schedule

Games = $

IMO when the number of Playoff teams is increased to 8 or 12, all non-playoff teams will be allowed to play a 13th game against a conference opponent.

 

[drmwevr08]

You think KU is bad...

NAU knocks off Arizona Wildcats for 1st time since 1932

Northern Arizona stopped a late two-point conversion attempt, extending Arizona’s school-record losing streak to 15 games Saturday night.

arizonasports.com

 

[Win5002]

Big 12 3.0 updated SP+ rankings a/o 9/20/2021 at 12:15 PM

OU - 3
UT - 22


Cincy - 13
ISU - 14
TCU - 27
UCF - 31
BYU - 33
Baylor - 34
OSU - 42
KSU - 45
WVU - 47
TT - 48
Who cares after this as not many wanted them in
UH - 71 (Memphis is 61)
KU still plays FB?? - 120 (130 total in FBS, UNLV is 124)

The league will be fun to watch but

We've talked about this- the math works when it is unequal revenue sharing. Don't think of it as expansion, think of as the Alliance, but replacing BTN for the Pac12 Network.

The BIG gets whatever they would otherwise, likely close to $80 million, while also largely preserving the Pac12.

The Pac12 gets a bump from having culled the lowest 3-4 brands, more inmarket carriage fees, and higher brand valuations from new matchups and better time slots (see Oregon-OSU ratings).

As I've stated many times, there is an opportunity cost to the Big 10, that being adding 4-6 ACC schools, which that long being known as their preference (see Delaney's lust for UNC and UVa). They need to do that to prevent the SEC from being a P1 situation. But it won't be cost that is prohibitive from adding 8 Pac 12 teams. The Big 10 would rather sit at $80 million than awkwardly poach USC and Oregon with heinous travel, while killing the Pac 12, for a few million/year more.

I didnt remember you talking about unequal revenue sharing. But that's not really the B1G way. Do you know the B1G redistribute some money from those that draw bigger football crowds to schools that draw on the lower end even?

At least they use to unless it'd changed.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

I've read a lot about future prospects. In particular adding AU, ASU, UU & CU.

Is it better to add UU & both Arizona teams because we care about their travel budget or is it better to instead add teams from new markets? Regardless, what would the pods be like? Would Colorado go into the North and ISU into the East?

East-ISU, WVU, UC, UFC
North- CU, KU, KSU, OSU
South-UH, TCU, TT, BU
West - BYU, UU, AU, ASU

Not something I would love. There have to be better plans.

 

[2speedy1]

U

UCF has 80,000 students, a huge campus in Orlando (obvious travel draw) and a legit program with a new stadium.

You over exaggerate UCF. Yes they are huge, but...
1. There total enrollment is less than 72,000, not over 80K.
2. That enrollment includes multiple satellite campuses, online classes and commuters.
3. That number includes 12-15K online exclusive students.
4. UCF only has a total on campus student housing for about 12,000 students. Including the Greek system and other affiliated housing.

They have exploded in size and numbers but if you peel back the layers and only compare what is the traditional University they are really similar to probably a good sized conventional University that does not have the online only, commuter system, and the multiple campus affiliation.

 

[2speedy1]

Big12 needs to start its own sports channel.

With blackjack! And hookers!

Big 12 Network at Night, Live from Big Earls....

 

[HFCS]

You over exaggerate UCF. Yes they are huge, but...
1. There total enrollment is less than 72,000, not over 80K.
2. That enrollment includes multiple satellite campuses, online classes and commuters.
3. That number includes 12-15K online exclusive students.
4. UCF only has a total on campus student housing for about 12,000 students. Including the Greek system and other affiliated housing.

They have exploded in size and numbers but if you peel back the layers and only compare what is the traditional University they are really similar to probably a good sized conventional University that does not have the online only, commuter system, and the multiple campus affiliation.

I'm cool with people excited about the UCF potential, but wouldn't confuse it for already being fully realized.

BYU checks every box as an above average P5 athletic dept/alumni base/fanbase

Cincy is right around average to slightly below. (as ISU would have been a decade or two ago)

UCF is a little below that but with huge upside.

Houston in my opinion is below average vs typical P5 given Big 12 already has 3 Texas schools. Still a fine addition because it's not like there are others that make more sense unless ACC/Pac were to crumble. BYU/Cincy/UCF is the obvious 1/2/3. #4 easily could have been Memphis but Houston is fine too. No other athletic departments are crazy obvious additions like BYU and Cincy are.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

Big12 needs to start its own sports channel.

With blackjack! And hookers!

So I could see a sports channel that streamed blackjack, but it would be boring.
But how does a sports channel stream hookers?

 

[CascadeClone]

So I could see a sports channel that streamed blackjack, but it would be boring.
But how does a sports channel stream hookers?

Im sure if you google "streaming hookers" you will get many, many results.

Many, many, many results.

 

[isucy86]

I've read a lot about future prospects. In particular adding AU, ASU, UU & CU.

Is it better to add UU & both Arizona teams because we care about their travel budget or is it better to instead add teams from new markets? Regardless, what would the pods be like? Would Colorado go into the North and ISU into the East?

East-ISU, WVU, UC, UFC
North- CU, KU, KSU, OSU
South-UH, TCU, TT, BU
West - BYU, UU, AU, ASU

Not something I would love. There have to be better plans.

Only 3 games a year would be against teams in your pod- so at least 6 games a year would be against teams outside your pod. So with a 9 game conference schedule ISU could play 2 games against teams in the other 3 pods. So I don't get too stuck on creating the ideal pod from a travel efficiency.

I like the below pods. UH is the Texas school left out of the pod, but they have history against UC and UCF in the AAC. Otherwise each pod contains teams with historical conference rivalries.

ISU, KU, KSU, CU
AU, ASU, BYU, UU
OSU, TCU, BU, TT
WVU, UC, UCF, UH

 

[WhoISthis]

I've read a lot about future prospects. In particular adding AU, ASU, UU & CU.

Is it better to add UU & both Arizona teams because we care about their travel budget or is it better to instead add teams from new markets? Regardless, what would the pods be like? Would Colorado go into the North and ISU into the East?

East-ISU, WVU, UC, UFC
North- CU, KU, KSU, OSU
South-UH, TCU, TT, BU
West - BYU, UU, AU, ASU

Not something I would love. There have to be better plans.

The networks will determine, but without a conference network, it’s not as bad to double up on a market. Ratings matter, and rivalry games are good floor for that. Of course, a rivalry or two brand names in different high population areas better. Both the AZ schools are recognized brands imo, and when good, could draw.

If only one happens to be available, that’s not bad though. I think there will be several ACC programs available eventually.

Imo it is important to have the same number of teams as the SEC/BIG. The Big 12 was hurt with the zero sum round robin schedule in a 10 team league against 14 team leagues with unequal/division scheduling. Our 10th best team, or last place, against the SEC’s 10th best, or nearly midpack/bowl qualifier. In terms of perception, we always had less good programs, when by percentage it wasn’t too bad

 

[cyfan92]

Week 3 TV ratings are coming in.. BYU, Cincy and UCF and continue to look like a GREAT additions!! All 3 DESTROYED mighty MICHIGAN..

Even Ohio vs Louisiana beat Michigan

 

[Scruff]

Not sure if anyone is watching the AAC/MWC drama, but AAC is in a tough spot. Boise turned them down many years ago when they had Cinci, Houston, UCF. For the rest of the MWC, they do offer more money and TV eyeballs even though travel costs would increase. Latest on twitter is that they're really going after Air Force and Colorado State. I like it. Both are more geography relevant to the AAC. AF frees up a non-conference game by being in a conference with Navy. Colorado State who many Big 12 fans have advocated for could use to the TV revenue and exposure, if they ever have hopes of a second Big 12 expansion. Not my prediction, just interesting to look at it from their points of view.

 

[Win5002]

I've read a lot about future prospects. In particular adding AU, ASU, UU & CU.

Is it better to add UU & both Arizona teams because we care about their travel budget or is it better to instead add teams from new markets? Regardless, what would the pods be like? Would Colorado go into the North and ISU into the East?

East-ISU, WVU, UC, UFC
North- CU, KU, KSU, OSU
South-UH, TCU, TT, BU
West - BYU, UU, AU, ASU

Not something I would love. There have to be better plans.

By the time this happens leagues will be able to set up in any format they want. You will have one set of division standings and you pick 3-4 annual rivalry games and some rotation around the rest of the league. If leagues get past 16, I think even the rotation games can be played at different frequencies. For instance some might play 1 out of every 3 years and some might play 2 out of 4 years. In the example above, I'm sure they can do it where the same group of 4 don't have to all have the same like rivalry games. Everyone is stuck in today's mode of things and its going to be about flexibility and revenue maximization.

 

[Win5002]

Not sure if anyone is watching the AAC/MWC drama, but AAC is in a tough spot. Boise turned them down many years ago when they had Cinci, Houston, UCF. For the rest of the MWC, they do offer more money and TV eyeballs even though travel costs would increase. Latest on twitter is that they're really going after Air Force and Colorado State. I like it. Both are more geography relevant to the AAC. AF frees up a non-conference game by being in a conference with Navy. Colorado State who many Big 12 fans have advocated for could use to the TV revenue and exposure, if they ever have hopes of a second Big 12 expansion. Not my prediction, just interesting to look at it from their points of view.

It probably makes sense for them to add Army as football only. All of the service academy games would be pretty strong. , I'm not sure Army/Navy want to concede that game to the AAC but if the idea is to get a new football division of 80-90 teams and the AAC is the 6th league it will probably bump the pay enough for Army/Navy to consider it. Although, I'm not sure the AAC is part of it, more likely a few teams from AAC & MWC get moved to be a part of the new group.

 

[Win5002]

Week 3 TV ratings are coming in.. BYU, Cincy and UCF and continue to look like a GREAT additions!! All 3 DESTROYED mighty MICHIGAN..

Even Ohio vs Louisiana beat Michigan

View attachment 90086

You have to put the ratings in context. The Michigan game was against a MAC school and on the BTN in the 11 am CST slot. Even when you put in the Louisiana vs Ohio game for comparison, it was on Thursday night prime time with no other college football game. 500K on the BTN against a MAC school isn't really that bad.

While I am not excited about the revenue difference the B12 will have against the B1G/SEC the product of the schools is getting me interested. I still hope there is some life raft coming from the B1G or SEC but if not I just hope the B12 has access to the CFP and is competitive with whoever is left from the PAC & ACC.

 

[Scruff]

It probably makes sense for them to add Army as football only. All of the service academy games would be pretty strong. , I'm not sure Army/Navy want to concede that game to the AAC but if the idea is to get a new football division of 80-90 teams and the AAC is the 6th league it will probably bump the pay enough for Army/Navy to consider it. Although, I'm not sure the AAC is part of it, more likely a few teams from AAC & MWC get moved to be a part of the new group.

Army fans seem to think they'll never join a conference again after their time in CUSA. I highly doubt Army and Navy fork over the money from that game nor its really late timeslot. All that said, they absolutely should be talking to Army as FB only too.

If they want to call themselves power6, they absolutely need to find a way to rope in SD St and Boise St. Time will tell if they can do it. No, I don't believe they'll be anywhere near the power5, but they'd be clearly above the other group of 5 conferences.

 

[cyIclSoneU]

You have to put the ratings in context. The Michigan game was against a MAC school and on the BTN in the 11 am CST slot. Even when you put in the Louisiana vs Ohio game for comparison, it was on Thursday night prime time with no other college football game. 500K on the BTN against a MAC school isn't really that bad.

While I am not excited about the revenue difference the B12 will have against the B1G/SEC the product of the schools is getting me interested. I still hope there is some life raft coming from the B1G or SEC but if not I just hope the B12 has access to the CFP and is competitive with whoever is left from the PAC & ACC.

I would like some real TV consultant to give us apples to apples comparisons of the new Big 12 against the Pac-12 and ACC. We are going to miss out on the top end splashiness but I'd bet that a garden variety Cincinnati vs Oklahoma State game does every bit as good as Arizona-Oregon State or Syracuse-Louisville.

 

[AuH2O]

I would like some real TV consultant to give us apples to apples comparisons of the new Big 12 against the Pac-12 and ACC. We are going to miss out on the top end splashiness but I'd bet that a garden variety Cincinnati vs Oklahoma State game does every bit as good as Arizona-Oregon State or Syracuse-Louisville.

Cincy-Okie State will absolutely destroy those games given similarity in channel. It will beat a majority of games in those conferences. Okie St. would be third in the PAC in viewership right now, as would ISU. BYU and Cincy would probably be duking it out with UW for third. ACC games with ND and Clemson get good viewership. UNC and Miami can be if they are good and have a good matchup.