Big 12 Expansion (new thread)

[HFCS]

It's would be a bad look for the conference if 2 newcomers made the CCG. I'd like to see us remain oppo of Okie State.

Ranking the new Big 12 over the past decade by top 25 finishes:

OK State (5)
Baylor (5)
TCU (4)
UCF (4)
WVU (3)
Cinci (3)
KSU (3)
Houston (2)
ISU (1)
BYU (1)
TTech (0)
KU (0)

It'll be a little more of a weekly grind for the new 4, but they've been good programs, a few of them could be great right away. TCU was great coming in and got slightly better for a couple years before they tailed off.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

In theory... You could play 5 East games 2 West semi-annual games and two West annual games.

Have two annual Challenge games. So in this case ISU could pick KSU & BYU (for example) so we would play:

non-conference
non-conference
non-conference
TT or TCU
BU or OSU
KSU - Challenge game
BYU - Challenge game
UCF
WVU
UCin
UH
KU

If KSU want's to play both ISU and KU they could. (assuming KU picks them as one of their two)
On the same note, we don't have to pick KSU or BYU. We could pick anyone, as long as they pick us.

And really going into the weeds... if we go to 14 and add MEM to the East & BSU to the West you play...

non-conference
non-conference
TT or TCU
BU or OSU
BSU or BYU
KSU - Challenge game
MEM
UCF
WVU
UCin
UH
KU

 

[WhoISthis]

It's the question few are asking, is the world really 100% different than 7 years ago?

The four major media market teams we are adding all have equal or better fanbase/attendance/alumni/following as Rutgers. Only seven years ago it was said Rutgers brought a conference NY/NYC without any people in NYC actually caring about Rutgers.



I just don't see how the Big Ten "has" regions like NY, NJ, Maryland, VA, and Mass if the Big 12 doesn't now equally "have" Florida and Ohio in addition to Texas, OK, IA, KS, WV and Utah. Our four additions bring more actual fans in their states per capita than Rutgers and Maryland do.

It is not that different- the BIG still has multiple revenue mechanisms (until cord cutting is ubiquitous), the Big 12 does not.

If the Big 12 had a conference network charging $1.3/month per subscriber like the BIG does (per 2018 numbers), I would get why you think it is contradictory. We don't.

We can't monetize in-market population as efficiently or directly as they can. Ratings matter to the only model we use. So although there is a correlation to adding teams in big cities to our revenue, it is not as easy as using location.

 

[jcyclonee]

Ranking the new Big 12 over the past decade by top 25 finishes:

OK State (5)
Baylor (5)
TCU (4)
UCF (4)
WVU (3)
Cinci (3)
KSU (3)
Houston (2)
ISU (1)
BYU (1)
TTech (0)
KU (0)

It'll be a little more of a weekly grind for the new 4, but they've been good programs, a few of them could be great right away. TCU was great coming in and got slightly better for a couple years before they tailed off.

I don't like this one. Could you please show this ranking over the last year only?

 

[JohnnyFive]

And really going into the weeds... if we go to 14 and add MEM to the East & BSU to the West you play...

non-conference
non-conference
TT or TCU
BU or OSU
BSU or BYU
KSU - Challenge game
MEM
UCF
WVU
UCin
UH
KU

I hope to God if they do expand with two more Boise State isnt anywhere on the list. Give me Memphis and just about anyone else

 

[HFCS]

I don't like this one. Could you please show this ranking over the last year only?

Yeah I know, it feels like we are better because of those "others with votes" year we were close to the breakthrough.

Also I was going to show the defectors but 8, 9 and 10 years ago Nebraska had a string of 24th and 25th finishes that paint them as light years better than they have been.

Colorado only has 1 top 25 finish in the last decade since they defected. Missouri's success is definitely trending down. A&M is the only defector that is trending upward. I expect Texas to be exactly what they have been in the SEC, talent with horrible team/fan/school culture. OU is a big question mark in the SEC to me.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

Yeah I know, it feels like we are better because of those "others with votes" year we were close to the breakthrough.

Also I was going to show the defectors but 8, 9 and 10 years ago Nebraska had a string of 24th and 25th finishes that paint them as light years better than they have been.

Colorado only has 1 top 25 finish in the last decade since they defected. Missouri's success is definitely trending down. A&M is the only defector that is trending upward. I expect Texas to be exactly what they have been in the SEC, talent with horrible team/fan/school culture. OU is a big question mark in the SEC to me.

UT fans don't like it when I call them the new Vanderbilt.

 

[Itjustdoesn'tmatter]

I hope to God if they do expand with two more Boise State isnt anywhere on the list. Give me Memphis and just about anyone else

Who? Colorado State? Tulane? South Florida? San Diego State? Costal Carolina?

I used to not be a fan of Boise State (And I still hate their blue field) but I looked at their record for the last 20+ years and they have done everything they can do to earn a promotion. Twenty years of 8+win seasons. If they haven't earned a shot, who has?

Plus, Idaho is a growing state. All the people with money in California & Chicago that don't want to live in Texas are moving there.

 

[WhoISthis]

Who? Colorado State? Tulane? South Florida? San Diego State? Costal Carolina?

I used to not be a fan of Boise State (And I still hate their blue field) but I looked at their record for the last 20+ years and they have done everything they can do to earn a promotion. Twenty years of 8+win seasons. If they haven't earned a shot, who has?

Plus, Idaho is a growing state. All the people with money in California & Chicago that don't want to live in Texas are moving there.

It is not about fairness.

Unless the conference knows more teams are leaving, why add now? Wait to see how many teams get picked from the Pac 12. Which will be known soon.

But if forced to, I'd add SDSU or USF over Boise.

Judging by the step down they've taken since joining the MWC, if they followed a similar path as TCU and WVu when joining the conference, we're not getting the Boise of 15-20 years ago.

 

[everyyard]

Flexible scheduling = weeknight games.

 

[flycy]

Well doesn't talking prior to the dickheads leaving change the narrative a bit?

Partly why I wouldn't put any stock in this report at all.

 

[HFCS]

It is not about fairness.

Unless the conference knows more teams are leaving, why add now? Wait to see how many teams get picked from the Pac 12. Which will be known soon.

But if forced to, I'd add SDSU or USF over Boise.

Judging by the step down they've taken since joining the MWC, if they followed a similar path as TCU and WVu when joining the conference, we're not getting the Boise of 15-20 years ago.

It really shows how Pac 12 does not have expansion options outside of the Big 12. USF is an overlap of UCF in many ways.

SDSU, Memphis, CSU, UNLV, Boise State...that's the next of what is available to both of these conferences. A few of those REALLY clash with Pac 12 mission statement.

They're taking a gamble by not expanding last week that their current makeup will outpace New Big 12. Their current membership minus a few marquee programs certainly will not and at that point merging with Big 12 or Big 12 minus a few more defections is their life boat. I think it would probably be mutually beneficial if the Pac gets raided to merge with New Big 12 or whatever is left of New Big 12.

 

[scyclonekid]

I honestly think the PAC is in more trouble than us.

 

[JM4CY]

Flexible scheduling = weeknight games.

Barf. Barf. And barf. Those might be inevitable but god those are not good for a lot of reasons as a fan. Hopefully those are mostly road games for us. I guarantee you Matt doesn’t like those either

 

[HFCS]

I honestly think the PAC is in more trouble than us.

If there is any reason they need to expand at all...I really don't see how they can in a crisis.

If they get raided teams are no longer going to leave B12.

Best case for them might be new B12 is strong, they get raided or have active defectors, and the entire block that doesn't leave joins Big 12 entirely.

Worst case is they lose 2 teams to Big Ten or SEC, then New Big 12 only adds 2-4 instead of all.

Maybe I'm wrong and those 12 will be immune from it all. Something tells me if their check is 20% of what SEC teams get they won't be stable.

 

[Bestaluckcy]

Barf. Barf. And barf. Those might be inevitable but god those are not good for a lot of reasons as a fan. Hopefully those are mostly road games for us. I guarantee you Matt doesn’t like those either

As one of the two premier league teams let’s hope we start getting the Texas preferred status.

 

[HFCS]

As one of the two premier league teams let’s hope we start getting the Texas preferred status.

I can tell you that UCF, Houston, Baylor, Tech and TCU will not be exempted from late season northern cold weather road games.

I'm pretty sure the Texas game this year is the latest they have ever played in Ames.

 

[isucy86]

It is not about fairness.

Unless the conference knows more teams are leaving, why add now? Wait to see how many teams get picked from the Pac 12. Which will be known soon.

But if forced to, I'd add SDSU or USF over Boise.

Judging by the step down they've taken since joining the MWC, if they followed a similar path as TCU and WVu when joining the conference, we're not getting the Boise of 15-20 years ago.

Not sure the love for USF. Their FB program has been trending downward on field since the 2015/16 timeframe. They drew 31k fans in 2019. The USF basketball program can't draw 5k fans and has no NCAA tournament history.

If the Big12 expands further, I would like to see the Big12 establish a foothold on the west coast to compliment BYU by adding SDSU and BSU. Both schools have a solid, long standing history of quality football programs and more recently solid MBB teams.

Personally, I would have taken Memphis over Houston, but I think they are on the outside looking in.

There are some intriguing schools if they could get their FB act together: UConn, UNLV, Tulane, New Mexico and CSU.

The other group that would be fun are the 3 academies - but not sure the they would add much outside of football with their basketball and Olympic sport teams.

 

[WhoISthis]

It really shows how Pac 12 does not have expansion options outside of the Big 12. USF is an overlap of UCF in many ways.

SDSU, Memphis, CSU, UNLV, Boise State...that's the next of what is available to both of these conferences. A few of those REALLY clash with Pac 12 mission statement.

They're taking a gamble by not expanding last week that their current makeup will outpace New Big 12. Their current membership minus a few marquee programs certainly will not and at that point merging with Big 12 or Big 12 minus a few more defections is their life boat. I think it would probably be mutually beneficial if the Pac gets raided to merge with New Big 12 or whatever is left of New Big 12.

More overlap than you’d like, that’s for sure. But not that different than adding Houston Imo. The biggest thing is the recent performance. Levitt was a long time ago

Theyll keep investing in their program and could be a back fill candidate for ACC.

 

[WhoISthis]

Not sure the love for USF. Their FB program has been trending downward on field since the 2015/16 timeframe. They drew 31k fans in 2019. The USF basketball program can't draw 5k fans and has no NCAA tournament history.

If the Big12 expands further, I would like to see the Big12 establish a foothold on the west coast to compliment BYU by adding SDSU and BSU. Both schools have a solid, long standing history of quality football programs and more recently solid MBB teams.

Personally, I would have taken Memphis over Houston, but I think they are on the outside looking in.

There are some intriguing schools if they could get their FB act together: UConn, UNLV, Tulane, New Mexico and CSU.

The other group that would be fun are the 3 academies - but not sure the they would add much outside of football with their basketball and Olympic sport teams.

I don’t love them. We shouldn’t add anyone past the 4 until the Pac 12 gets resolved .

But I like them more than Boise. They drew 31k in a low period. Boise St after success is at 33k. Boise attendance peaked in 2012 at 35,404 fans per game (as did season ticket sales).

USF is 50k students and growing. Likely building an on campus stadium in the next decade, if not 5 years. Much better academically which matters to other prospective members. Recruiting easier (Boise used PQs to help build success)

Hopefully future additions are from the Pac 12 and ACC