Does Creighton's McDermott Keep His Job?

[Sigmapolis]

I think people are upset by the concept that 20+ years in coaching with no apparent issues and one regrettable statement, which would appear to not have had a racist intent, can get someone unfairly labeled. I can understand that being troubling.

I just can't figure out why something like that even gets to the press. He said this, he apologized and it appears those who are in a position to be truly hurt by it accepted the apology. That's really how it should work.

My favorite part of all this is how the policing of language isn't actually helping provide more opportunities or equality to all of the various and obviously discriminated-against groups in our history. Firing Greg McDermott for saying this isn't going to make the failing public school system in inner-city Milwaukee or in some poor town in Appalachia any better. But our society likes the cheap, easy, and symbolic compared to the hard work and real sacrifice it would actually take to fix these things.

 

[Neptune78]

My favorite part of all this is how the policing of language isn't actually helping provide more opportunities or equality to all of the various and obviously discriminated-against groups in our history.....

Are you talking about rappers and their financial gain for the use of the "N" word?

 

[Cat Stevens]

I totally agree with this. Far be it for me, middle-aged Central Iowa white dude, to tell a POC what they should think about this. No disagreement here.

I guess where my frustration lies is the automatic reversion to "he should be fired" by many. The fact people were offended (again, for the most part it would appear we are talking about people disconnected from the Creighton basketball program) should not be dispositive on this. Context, backstory and prior history are relevant elements to this, and it seems no one is too interested in that. It just gets plugged through the algorithm of "Said something offensive in nature, certain people offended, fire that person."

A little nuance never hurts.

You should have stopped with the first sentence. The rest was long rambling rationalization with your privilege on clear display

you, nor I, have the right to tell anyone else what they should, or should not, be offended by

 

[Cat Stevens]

It sucks that this can't lead to conversations where people try to understand how this could be interpreted as offensive by p.o.c. as well as how a white person can make this mistake without intentionally trying to demean anyone. If we aren't allowed to have these difficult conversations, things will never change. Nothing good comes from absolute views, it only further divides us.

Greg clearly made a mistake, I don't think it's fair to use that to label him in any way. The most important aspect of this is that he learned from it and is going to try to be better. In the end, that's all he can really do. Hopefully, other people can learn from his mistakes.

read know nothing’s ramblings, or the guy that knows 10 black guys, or any of the rest of the rationalizations postulated here and everywhere, and tell us how interested they are in having that discussion.

 

[Cat Stevens]

^White privilege

Don’t you know, no one can possibly understand the historical plight of the African American notre than a white person

 

[dafarmer]

Does this mean Creighton isn't going to hire Prohm?

 

[quasistellar]

I think people are upset by the concept that 20+ years in coaching with no apparent issues and one regrettable statement, which would appear to not have had a racist intent, can get someone unfairly labeled. I can understand that being troubling.

I just can't figure out why something like that even gets to the press. He said this, he apologized and it appears those who are in a position to be truly hurt by it accepted the apology. That's really how it should work.

It gets to the press because it's important. I think that it's better now that something like this makes the news, as opposed to the past where no one said anything and it kept happening.

So long as it's an honest isolated mistake with no ill intent, we should all let him apologize and as long as there's no more to it, accept his apology. So long as people are given the opportunity to better themselves, its fine.

Where/when I grew up, people said some crazy ignorant **** with no repercussions. That's not okay.

Also, twitter is dumb AF mob mentality. Ignore twitter.

 

[Clonefan32]

It gets to the press because it's important. I think that it's better now that something like this makes the news, as opposed to the past where no one said anything and it kept happening.

So long as it's an honest isolated mistake with no ill intent, we should all let him apologize and as long as there's no more to it, accept his apology. So long as people are given the opportunity to better themselves, its fine.

Where/when I grew up, people said some crazy ignorant **** with no repercussions. That's not okay.

Also, twitter is dumb AF mob mentality. Ignore twitter.

But why does he owe the public an apology?

I don't understand how this doesn't go as follows:

Offended players/assistants: "Greg, do you realize what you just said? That's offensive to reference 'the plantation'"

Greg: "Oh wow I'm so sorry, you know I didn't mean to use it like that. I can understand why that came across as offensive but you guys know I'm not like that. I'll be more careful going forward."

Fin.

 

[baagoe]

My favorite part of all this is how the policing of language isn't actually helping provide more opportunities or equality to all of the various and obviously discriminated-against groups in our history. Firing Greg McDermott for saying this isn't going to make the failing public school system in inner-city Milwaukee or in some poor town in Appalachia any better. But our society likes the cheap, easy, and symbolic compared to the hard work and real sacrifice it would actually take to fix these things.

i don’t understand all or nothing thinking like this. yes obviously there are larger problems to be solved. but stuff like this is about not making people feel uncomfortable and alienated which is an important part of the equation, although not all of it course

 

[Cat Stevens]

But why does he owe the public an apology?

I don't understand how this doesn't go as follows:

Offended players/assistants: "Greg, do you realize what you just said? That's offensive to reference 'the plantation'"

Greg: "Oh wow I'm so sorry, you know I didn't mean to use it like that. I can understand why that came across as offensive but you guys know I'm not like that. I'll be more careful going forward."

Fin.

Because he coaches major college basketball, where the population percentages amongst players is largely African American

 

[Cat Stevens]

i don’t understand all or nothing thinking like this. yes obviously there are larger problems to be solved. but stuff like this is about not making people feel uncomfortable and alienated which is an important part of the equation, although not all of it course

Because if you frame it that way, then you never really have to have that honest conversation about history of race in this country.

It’s completely from a place of privilege, and fear of losing that standing

 

[CycloneErik]

Not sure how he didn't just lean into coachspeak right away for the team. Do the simple "that was a tough loss. We're a team. We're a family. We've got to stay together."

 

[Clonefan32]

Not sure how he didn't just lean into coachspeak right away for the team. Do the simple "that was a tough loss. We're a team. We're a family. We've got to stay together."

"Listen fellas, each game is a new opportunity. Let's focus on going on a one game win streak. Only way we get there is with elite preparation and effort. Let's just take it a game at a time and we've got to learn to want it more"

 

[Sigmapolis]

i don’t understand all or nothing thinking like this. yes obviously there are larger problems to be solved. but stuff like this is about not making people feel uncomfortable and alienated which is an important part of the equation, although not all of it course

It is not "all or nothing" thinking -- it is recognizing scarcity (time included) is the reality of human experience. The mental energy and effort of individuals and the institutions we collectively build are finite in nature.

Don't underestimate people's ability to say they've "done something" because they fired somebody for saying an undoubtedly insensitive thing but without harmful intent or a bad track record of behavior.

Once you've "done something," you might be able to give yourself a pass to check out (either individually or collectively) when there is still so much real work left to be done. Never underestimate people's ability to do something cheap, easy, and symbolic to make themselves feel good, like condemning McDermott, rather than demanding real reform that might cost them in either the absolute sense or some of their relative placement on society's totem pole.

Distractions from real problems are distractions. I don't think Greg McDermott is a real problem.

The fact the four-year graduation rate from Milwaukee Public Schools is <70% is.

 

[Clonefan32]

It is not "all or nothing" thinking -- it is recognizing scarcity (time included) is the reality of human experience. The mental energy and effort of individuals and the institutions we collectively build are finite in nature.

Don't underestimate people's ability to say they've "done something" because they fired somebody for saying an undoubtedly insensitive thing but without harmful intent or a bad track record of behavior.

Once you've "done something," you might be able to give yourself a pass to check out (either individually or collectively) when there is still so much real work left to be done. Never underestimate people's ability to do something cheap, easy, and symbolic to make themselves feel good, like condoning McDermott, rather than demanding real reform that might cost them in either the absolute sense or some of their relative placement on society's totem pole.

Distractions from real problems are distractions. I don't think Greg McDermott is a real problem.

The fact the four-year graduation rate from Milwaukee Public Schools is <70% is.

I'm also a believer that you can see fatigue in these types of discussions. There is undoubtedly an issue of rampant racism in our country. It's a discussion that needs to be had. But I think things like this, or like Dolph, elicits so many "oh c'mons" from people who are otherwise a supporter of the anti-racism cause that it's winds up counterproductive.

 

[Cydkar]

I'm also a believer that you can see fatigue in these types of discussions. There is undoubtedly an issue of rampant racism in our country. It's a discussion that needs to be had. But I think things like this, or like Dolph, elicits so many "oh c'mons" from people who are otherwise a supporter of the anti-racism cause that it's winds up counterproductive.

Well said. I'm as anti-racist as damn near anyone I know and both the Dolph thing and this are important to discuss but I don't think they are "racist". To be fair, I'm white.

 

[Cat Stevens]

I'm also a believer that you can see fatigue in these types of discussions. There is undoubtedly an issue of rampant racism in our country. It's a discussion that needs to be had. But I think things like this, or like Dolph, elicits so many "oh c'mons" from people who are otherwise a supporter of the anti-racism cause that it's winds up counterproductive.

Could you imagine being an African American, and the inconveniences and fatigue and stereotypes they must deal with every single day?

me either, so I don’t think I have the right to tell them what they should, or should not, take offense to

your privilege is showing again

 

[Gunnerclone]

Are you talking about rappers and their financial gain for the use of the "N" word?

Feel like rappers don’t even use that word much anymore. Rap sucks now, I like RTJ and that’s about it. It’s just a bunch of noises and muffled talking and “rhyming” a word with the same word.

 

[MeowingCows]

There was never any remote possibility of McD losing his job over this lol

 

[baagoe]

It is not "all or nothing" thinking -- it is recognizing scarcity (time included) is the reality of human experience. The mental energy and effort of individuals and the institutions we collectively build are finite in nature.

Don't underestimate people's ability to say they've "done something" because they fired somebody for saying an undoubtedly insensitive thing but without harmful intent or a bad track record of behavior.

Once you've "done something," you might be able to give yourself a pass to check out (either individually or collectively) when there is still so much real work left to be done. Never underestimate people's ability to do something cheap, easy, and symbolic to make themselves feel good, like condemning McDermott, rather than demanding real reform that might cost them in either the absolute sense or some of their relative placement on society's totem pole.

Distractions from real problems are distractions. I don't think Greg McDermott is a real problem.

The fact the four-year graduation rate from Milwaukee Public Schools is <70% is.

there are always going to be more important and pressing problems, and yes greg mcdermott saying something like this isn’t really a huge deal but that doesn’t mean people should just ignore it and not be like yeah don’t say **** like that