What to do with Coach Prohm Poll..

[Urbandale2013]

Don’t disagree at all. Prohm hits homers and then strikes out his next few plate appearances...clearly has to change. But how do we know Otz rosters would be different long term?

The question is do you expect Prohm to change. If the answer is no then you move on.

The. When you are looking at the new hire the question is who is most likely to succeed. We could go pay a lot for an average P5 coach or we could gamble on an up and coming coach. I’d rather go with someone new. All of those guys are going to have questions about their ability but you have to see what they can do before suggesting they can’t do it. There’s no guarantee they will be better but we know that Prohm isn’t going to turn it around.

 

[gocubs2118]

Don’t disagree at all. Prohm hits homers and then strikes out his next few plate appearances...clearly has to change. But how do we know Otz rosters would be different long term?

We don’t know for sure but we do know he wouldn’t waste any time trying to recruit the southeast, an area we haven’t been able to recruit at all.

 

[BryceC]

It’s amazing to see people here **** on TJ for no apparent reason? The dude is a dynamite recruiter and has already proven he can get talent to Ames. I’m confident he can put the right coaching staff around him to succeed, unlike this coach. You can call it a cheap hire or whatever but it would be the right hire. Whether you like it or not, JP isn’t going to spend 3 million or more on our next basketball coach and if you’re gonna take a flier on somebody, you might as well do it with someone who wants to be here.

I think he's unproven to a very large degree. That's it and that's all.

 

[Urbandale2013]

I think he's unproven to a very large degree. That's it and that's all.

So is every mid major coach.

 

[heitclone]

Don’t disagree at all. Prohm hits homers and then strikes out his next few plate appearances...clearly has to change. But how do we know Otz rosters would be different long term?

Because he has recruited here before? He has more p6 recruiting experience than Prohm, he's out recruiting Prohm at MW school..... The reality is Prohm has brought in 6 HS recruits that ended up being big 12 players. 6 recruits in 6 years that were able to contribute. No way to sugar coat that, it's simply awful, it's certainly not successful recruiting that's hurting him, it's far too many whiffs. He's either not recruiting at a high enough level or is a total disaster when it comes to player development...or probably more accurate, it's both.

 

[BryceC]

So is every mid major coach.

Let me say this then - I think he has a resume very close to Prohm's before he came here. That might be why I'm biased against him and concerned about it.

 

[Messi]

Let me say this then - I think he has a resume very close to Prohm's before he came here. That might be why I'm biased against him and concerned about it.

TJ has 10 years experience on a P5 staff. Prohm had 0

 

[Sigmapolis]

Let me say this then - I think he has a resume very close to Prohm's before he came here. That might be why I'm biased against him and concerned about it.

Prohm is from the Washington, DC metro area, grew up in Georgia, graduated from Alabama, and then was a low-tier conference assistant in the Southeast before inheriting a successful Murray State program from Billy Kennedy, who had in turn inherited it from Mick Cronin (ex-Cincinnati and now UCLA). His wife is from Kentucky.

T.J. is from the Milwaukee area, graduated from Wisconsin-Whitewater, and spent his career as a highly-regarded high-major assistant for Iowa State and Washington under McDermott, Hoiberg, and Romar before taking the reins of his own program in Brookings and now undertaking a major rebuilding project in Las Vegas. He is regarded as one of the premier recruiters in the Midwest and has connections out west. He helped us land Mike Taylor, Craig Brackins, Diante Garrett, Scott Christopherson, Chris Babb, Chis Allen, Will Clyburn, Korie Lucious, Melvin Ejim, Georges Niang, Naz Mitrou-Long, Matt Thomas, and Solomon Young. His recruiting in Las Vegas is better than Prohm's in Ames. His wife is Australian by birth, yes, but her "home" in the U.S. is in Ames. She was one of the best players in the history of the women's program.

I don't see much for similarities there in terms of their home "regions" or their CVs.

 

[Urbandale2013]

Let me say this then - I think he has a resume very close to Prohm's before he came here. That might be why I'm biased against him and concerned about it.

This is just not true. I’ve explained it multiple times that even just talking about their head coaching resumes TJ is much better.

Yeah I think there’s some pause with this years results. Last year you saw the growth near the end I thought. This year hasn’t been good but I think Covid is a reasonable excuse for him. I’d like to see next year.

That said I think people continue to overinflated Prohm’s Murray State teams. He never didn’t have an NBA point guard. Even then he only made the NCAA tournament once. Not only that but they didn’t even make the NIT two of the years.

TJ inherited a pretty good team and a great player but Daum isn’t even an NBA player. They made the tournament in 2/3 years and made the NIT in the other year. Last year he had UNLV finish 2nd in the MWC. Otzelberger has a much better resume than Prohm.

People over inflate what Prohm did at Murray State. It frankly wasn’t good. TJ on the other hand has been good at two places already. He’s made the tournament in 50% of his years coaching. That’s with playing in small mid major conference and taking over a rough UNLV team.

 

[heitclone]

Let me say this then - I think he has a resume very close to Prohm's before he came here. That might be why I'm biased against him and concerned about it.

How? One spent 10 years as an assistant coaching and recruiting to p6 schools, the other bounced around the southern, southland and ohio valley. One coach took over a mid major with only 2 NCAA appearances in the history of their program and took them to 3 straight (Daum helped for sure), the other was handed the keys to the most successful program in it's conference over the last 30 years as well as an NBA PG and made it to 1 tourney.

So prior to Prohm being hired by ISU here are the resume's:

Prohm- 1 NCAA tourney, 1 NIT, assistant coach in 3 (very small) mid major programs, no p6 experience,

TJ- 3 NCAA tourney appearances, 10 years assistant at Iowa St and Washington

I don't think they are really that close, TJ has much more in his background to suggest he'd succeed here.I don't believe that was true during our last coaching search and think Prohm was a better candidate at that time but TJ is a better candidate now than Steve was when we made that hire. Heck, think of where Steve would be without the kids TJ brought here. From a recruiting standpoint, TJ has had a bigger impact on Steve's success at ISU than Steves own recruiting.

 

[Sigmapolis]

How? One spent 10 years as an assistant coaching and recruiting to p6 schools, the other bounced around the southern, southland and ohio valley. One coach took over a mid major with only 2 NCAA appearances in the history of their program and took them to 3 straight (Daum helped for sure), the other was handed the keys to the most successful program in it's conference over the last 30 years as well as an NBA PG and made it to 1 tourney.

So prior to Prohm being hired by ISU here are the resume's:

Prohm- 1 NCAA tourney, 1 NIT, assistant coach in 3 (very small) mid major programs, no p6 experience,

TJ- 3 NCAA tourney appearances, 10 years assistant at Iowa St and Washington

I don't think they are really that close, TJ has much more in his background to suggest he'd succeed here.I don't believe that was true during our last coaching search and think Prohm was a better candidate at that time but TJ is a better candidate now than Steve was when we made that hire. Heck, think of where Steve would be without the kids TJ brought here. From a recruiting standpoint, TJ has had a biggest impact on Steve's success at ISU than Steves own recruiting.

Good post... but you forgot to add...

Prohm is a southerner and married to a woman from Kentucky. TJ is already part of the Iowa State "family" through Alison and his long tenures in Ames. Heck, CW considers him one of his best friends.

TJ is an ace recruiter throughout the Midwest and West, and he owns Wisconsin. Prohm is mostly southern.

They are about as different as you can make them -- ironic considering I've heard they're good buds.

 

[BryceC]

How? One spent 10 years as an assistant coaching and recruiting to p6 schools, the other bounced around the southern, southland and ohio valley. One coach took over a mid major with only 2 NCAA appearances in the history of their program and took them to 3 straight (Daum helped for sure), the other was handed the keys to the most successful program in it's conference over the last 30 years as well as an NBA PG and made it to 1 tourney.

So prior to Prohm being hired by ISU here are the resume's:

Prohm- 1 NCAA tourney, 1 NIT, assistant coach in 3 (very small) mid major programs, no p6 experience,

TJ- 3 NCAA tourney appearances, 10 years assistant at Iowa St and Washington

I don't think they are really that close, TJ has much more in his background to suggest he'd succeed here.I don't believe that was true during our last coaching search and think Prohm was a better candidate at that time but TJ is a better candidate now than Steve was when we made that hire. Heck, think of where Steve would be without the kids TJ brought here. From a recruiting standpoint, TJ has had a biggest impact on Steve's success at ISU than Steves own recruiting.

Both took over programs ready made for success at a very low level in SDSU and Murray. I'm not really head over heels for any of the successes at either place and I don't think either is necessarily known as great X's and O's guy. TJ would be fine but I don't think we solve any glaring problems with him. His experience as a P5 assistant is fine but I don't think it's some sort of harbinger of success. He has just as many drawbacks as Devries or Smith IMO, they are just different ones. Again, I could be wrong and we just don't know.

 

[Halincandenza]

Both took over programs ready made for success at a very low level in SDSU and Murray. I'm not really head over heels for any of the successes at either place and I don't think either is necessarily known as great X's and O's guy. TJ would be fine but I don't think we solve any glaring problems with him. His experience as a P5 assistant is fine but I don't think it's some sort of harbinger of success. He has just as many drawbacks as Devries or Smith IMO, they are just different ones. Again, I could be wrong and we just don't know.

TJ has a recruiting record better than Devries an Smith. But I agree it is hard to know who will work out. It just seems like a crap shoot really.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I should also add that TJ has a strong relationship with all of our NBA guys (indeed, he was the one that recruited most of them to Ames in the first place) except maybe Horton-Tucker and Haliburton.

Considering how personable TJ seems and how well he has done recruiting, though, he's probably got the best chance of anybody we could hire of maintaining those relationships as well as keeping the one with Haliburton as Wisconsinite-to-Wisconsinite. I would bet he has the best chance of anybody of retaining the core of talent we do have, too, in Hunter, Bolton, Johnson, Hinson, and Foster so he can hit the ground running without a total rebuild.

Heck, you keep that and add Kaluma (98.36%) and Collins (98.24%), and you've got yourself a loaded roster.

I like the other guys, but TJ is going to have a compelling case if he wants the job, and I can only imagine he would.

 

[heitclone]

Both took over programs ready made for success at a very low level in SDSU and Murray. I'm not really head over heels for any of the successes at either place and I don't think either is necessarily known as great X's and O's guy. TJ would be fine but I don't think we solve any glaring problems with him. His experience as a P5 assistant is fine but I don't think it's some sort of harbinger of success. He has just as many drawbacks as Devries or Smith IMO, they are just different ones. Again, I could be wrong and we just don't know.

I don't disagree with you, I think just TJ and the guys you mentioned all have a better resume than Prohm did. Steve followed a long line of really good coaches at Murray, he was the next guy up after guys like Mark Gottfried and Mick Cronin built that program. I know people get offended by the Lickliter comparison (Prohm isn't that bad) but they really are similar in how they got to the front of the line for a HC job. Paid their dues as assistant in a great program, got hired to maintain continuity with that strong program, kept the bus between the lines, got his name out to bigger schools. I think Barry Collier is a closer comparison but Lick is the name everyone knows around here.

 

[CycloneErik]

This is just not true. I’ve explained it multiple times that even just talking about their head coaching resumes TJ is much better.

People over inflate what Prohm did at Murray State. It frankly wasn’t good. TJ on the other hand has been good at two places already. He’s made the tournament in 50% of his years coaching. That’s with playing in small mid major conference and taking over a rough UNLV team.

We do over-inflate his Murray State time. To be fair, though, his last team should not have been left out of the NCAAs.
Doesn't do much for years 2 and 3, but year 4 should have been selected.

 

[Tpups21]

Nope- it's Jamie's call 100%, even if the money is there.

The money is a big fan of one possible hire above all others tho. Personally, I am a way bigger fan of TJ than the others. He could have stayed at SDSU and had a glossy record and everyone would be cool with hiring him. Instead, he took on a new challenge that will help him grow as a coach and especially in a total rebuild like ISU is now. This thing is absolutely gutted to the ground- can't hire a silver spoon coach who was handed the keys to a good job like a Murray State or SDSU, need someone who has taken some bumps along the way. This is going to be hard to build back up IMO.

Is the money a big fan of Otzelberger? I just think there would be better candidates interested.

 

[Messi]

Being discussed on another board but figured we could argue over here too

Thoughts on Archie Miller if Indiana fires him?

Archie Miller would excite me more than some of the names i've seen thrown around for ISU (e.g. Devries, Medved, Henderson or Hornacek)

Has Archie delivered on the top 15 salary IU has paid him? No, but i still think hes a good coach and is a safer bet to return ISU to a winning program than some of the midmajor coaches projected for ISU by fans and media.

 

[werdnamanhill]

Being discussed on another board but figured we could argue over here too

Thoughts on Archie Miller if Indiana fires him?

Archie Miller would excite me more than some of the names i've seen thrown around for ISU (e.g. Devries, Medved, Henderson or Hornacek)

Has Archie delivered on the top 15 salary IU has paid him? No, but i still think hes a good coach and is a safer bet to return ISU to a winning program than some of the midmajor coaches projected for ISU by fans and media.

I think the better question is: would he want to come here?

 

[Tpups21]

I think Prohm could help himself a lot by bringing in a new assistant or two. I’ve never been impressed by his staff.