****Official Class of 2021 Recruiting Thread****

[Sigmapolis]

Do tell.

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Sure - i hope prohm can work his magic with Harris and he can be a serviceable p5 PG. i had similar hopes for Nixon and was let down. Prohm is good with PGs but he’s not batting 1000

Prohm has definitely had some stud PGs in his career, but he has also brought in some guys we expected to be "PGs" who ended up being SGs. Donovan Jackson was thought to be a successor to Monté Morris before he became more of a one-trick shooter (though a good one), and Wigginton was supposed to be a PG but had way more for SG skills. I would say that Tre Jackson is trending in that direction, too, as a 3&D guy. I think Harris is more on that track. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I imagine that Bolton or Coleman-Lands runs point next year.

In the transfer season, I don't think Prohm was really looking for a PG. He offered a couple guys early but IMO that was more bc they were just some of the best guys out there. It's not like Rasir was the reason we weren't good after Tyrese went down.

Our offensive rating on BT stayed pretty similar (or even went up a tiny tick) when Haliburton went down last year. Our defensive rating, however, watched the bottom drop out and the team go to hell down the late stretch.

A team with Bolton as its nexus can score. But can we stop?

 

[Sigmapolis]

Prohm will regret prioritizing Harris over Buggs if an efficient facilitator doesn’t emerge on the current roster.

Buggs wanted a guaranteed starting spot and high minutes.

Prohm said he couldn't promise that given his performance on a bad team in a weak conference. He'd have a chance to compete for that, but Buggs should expect his contribution to the team and role to be more for depth, as a practice guy, and as an example to younger players. If he wanted to accept that role, then he would have been welcome in Ames and as part of the team for next year.

Buggs balked.

I side with Prohm there. Buggs' demands were not reasonable.

 

[Hayes30]

He is a better PG than Tre Jackson and the 2019 signees no longer with the program.

I would bet that's not the case this Season.

 

[cykadelic2]

Buggs wanted a guaranteed starting spot and high minutes.

Prohm said he couldn't promise that given his performance on a bad team in a weak conference. He'd have a chance to compete for that, but Buggs should expect his contribution to the team and role to be more for depth, as a practice guy, and as an example to younger players. If he wanted to accept that role, then he would have been welcome in Ames and as part of the team for next year.

Buggs balked.

I side with Prohm there. Buggs' demands were not reasonable.

I find Buggs’ “demands” to be irrelevant given the facilitator need and the lack of a proven one on the roster. Maybe one emerges this season like NWB did in 2017-18 after LW and Jackson failed but I have my doubts.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I find Buggs’ “demands” to be irrelevant given the facilitator need and the lack of a proven one on the roster. Maybe one emerges this season like NWB did in 2017-18 after LW and Jackson failed but I have my doubts.

So you like letting a guy into the program because of a non-need for a rigidly-defined "distributor" who has expectations far in excess of his talent, athleticism, and likely utility as a Big 12 player and relative to our other guys...

Let's just say I'm glad you're not our basketball coach.

 

[cykadelic2]

So you like letting a guy into the program because of a non-need for a rigidly-defined "distributor" who has expectations far in excess of his talent, athleticism, and likely utility as a Big 12 players and relative to our other guys...

Let's just say I'm glad you're not our basketball coach.

The need for Buggs’ skill set (offensively and defensively) and PT potential far exceeded that of Harris’. Prohm needed to blow off his “demands” to potentially save his own hot seat.

 

[Drew0311]

Buggs isn’t crap. Dude was ok on a Hawaii team. Let’s not act like he was a starter at
Kentucky . He would have been a decent recruit but I’m ok with getting Harris instead

 

[Hayes30]

I find Buggs’ “demands” to be irrelevant given the facilitator need and the lack of a proven one on the roster. Maybe one emerges this season like NWB did in 2017-18 after LW and Jackson failed but I have my doubts.

We need a guy who can handle the ball and set up an offense. Harris is more than capable of doing that.. Monte and Tyrese really spoiled us with a pass 1st mindset but in 2020 that's not typically what a PG does now. Who would you rather have hunting for their own shot Harris or Buggs? I will hang up and listen.

 

[Sigmapolis]

The need for Buggs’ skill set (offensively and defensively) and PT potential far exceeded that of Harris’. Prohm needed to blow off his “demands” to potentially save his own hot seat.

Hawaii was #196 on Bart Torvik last year.

They were #4 in the Big West (8-8) after UC-Irvine, UCSB, and CSNR.

Buggs has a PRPG! of 0.6 and a TS% of 43.2%. His ORTG was 91.5.

There are not good stats. There are terribly inefficient ones.

I have seen zero evidence he would be a plus defender. I would doubt a guy recruited into the Big West would have the athleticism for it.

Yes, he is a notional PG, but he just isn't that good.

Buggs isn’t crap. Dude was ok on a Hawaii team. Let’s not act like he was a starter at
Kentucky . He would have been a decent recruit but I’m ok with getting Harris instead

Buggs had six games against Top 100 squads last year.

PRPG! = -0.5
ORTG = 73.3
TS% = 35.6%
3/2 A/T ratio
20.8% from three

I would honestly almost have Prentiss Nixon back before Buggs.

He would be that bad. Or worse.

 

[cykadelic2]

Hawaii was #196 on Bart Torvik last year.

They were #4 in the Big West (8-8) after UC-Irvine, UCSB, and CSNR.

Buggs has a PRPG! of 0.6 and a TS% of 43.2%. His ORTG was 91.5.

There are not good stats. There are terribly inefficient ones.

I have seen zero evidence he would be a plus defender. I would doubt a guy recruited into the Big West would have the athleticism for it.

Yes, he is a notional PG, but he just isn't that good.



Buggs had six games against Top 100 squads last year.

PRPG! = -0.5
ORTG = 73.3
TS% = 35.6%
3/2 A/T ratio
20.8% from three

I would honestly almost have Prentiss Nixon back before Buggs.

He would be that bad. Or worse.

Relying on Torvik metrics is nonsense since they don’t properly account for skill set need (Harris was run off by Memphis because he couldn’t facilitate offense) and defense (Prohm wanted more perimeter length and signs 5-9 Harris instead of 6-3 Buggs).

 

[Messi]

I am surprised that Prohm hasn't offered this kid out of Wisconsin https://247sports.com/player/brandin-podziemski-46102373/.

 

[cykadelic2]

We need a guy who can handle the ball and set up an offense. Harris is more than capable of doing that.. Monte and Tyrese really spoiled us with a pass 1st mindset but in 2020 that's not typically what a PG does now. Who would you rather have hunting for their own shot Harris or Buggs? I will hang up and listen.

Harris is comparable to Donovan Jackson & LW in terms of skill set. Buggs is comparable to NWB in terms of skill set.

After losing to Milwaukee in Hilton during the 2017-18 season, Prohm had to turn to NWB at PG to save the offense. Same logic applies this season. I highly question Prohm has a NWB type on the roster to bail him out. Buggs would have been that guy moreso than Harris.

 

[LLCoolCY]

Harris is comparable to Donovan Jackson & LW in terms of skill set. Buggs is comparable to NWB in terms of skill set.

After losing to Milwaukee in Hilton during the 2017-18 season, Prohm had to turn to NWB at PG to save the offense. Same logic applies this season. I highly question Prohm has a NWB type on the roster to bail him out. Buggs would have been that guy moreso than Harris.

I think JCL could play that role a bit as versitle 6-5 who can switch. Tyler's ceiling is higher than Buggs as a scorer especially from 3 and with this years roster they need a couple of threats from outside other than Rasir.
I don't think Buggs would fit ISU or Prohm's vision of what he wanted in a guard as evidenced by the reluctance to even offer Buggs. Conversly we know Prohm has a plan for Harris and how to maximize his skills (since high school actually).
Both can succeed but I feel Tyler will play better at ISU than Buggs would have if for no other reason than Prohms belief in the players.
Regardless Buggs isn't the difference in making the tourney or not... Tyler has an outside chance of moving the needle based off his recruiting petegree and coaching preference thus was a better pickup for ISU. IMO

 

[Sigmapolis]

Relying on Torvik metrics is nonsense since they don’t properly account for skill set need (Harris was run off by Memphis because he couldn’t facilitate offense) and defense (Prohm wanted more perimeter length and signs 5-9 Harris instead of 6-3 Buggs).

Basketball is not like football where you have relatively rigidly-defined positions and roles that players spend their entire careers developing. Skills in basketball are much more generalized, especially for guards.

By your logic, a player's talent, size, and athleticism barely matters -- only if they have that magical stamp as a "PG." Sorry, but that is not how it works. A guy needs the talent for high-major ball before he can fill a role.

I doubt Buggs has it -- especially if his mentality coming in was he was going to be "the guy" rather than complementary behind Bolton and Coleman-Lands. Harris has his warning flags (e.g., more of a SG than a PG, not overwhelming productive at Memphis, great athleticism but short, etc.), but he's the more talented guy.

If we are hoping for a guy from a mid-level Big West team to come and save us, we are boned.

Harris is comparable to Donovan Jackson & LW in terms of skill set. Buggs is comparable to NWB in terms of skill set.

After losing to Milwaukee in Hilton during the 2017-18 season, Prohm had to turn to NWB at PG to save the offense. Same logic applies this season. I highly question Prohm has a NWB type on the roster to bail him out. Buggs would have been that guy moreso than Harris.

Our adjusted offensive efficiency went slightly up after Haliburton went down last year.

Bolton can run the point just fine, along with the other guys in more of a committee approach.

 

[JCloned]

I just don't get the infatuation you have with Buggs. My take he is a prima donna without the skills to back it up. He was a hard pass for me last spring. Why are you focusing on a guy that isn't even on our roster? If all you want to do is bash Prohm and show you know more about PG's than he does how about you start a new thread and post there. I would suggest "Why I know more about PG's than Prohm"

 

[isucy86]

IMO to make any promises of PT to Buggs would have been a bad fit.

I look at the roster Prohm has put together and I don't see a ball dominant PG as a fit. Especially if that PG is a below average jump shooter.

We have built a roster of guards who can break down defenders off the dribble, score on their own or pass to the open jump ahooter. Although they might not be great passers, they can mesh as a unit.

A ball dominant PG like Buggs would stagnate our offense. Having Bolton, Coleman-Lands, Johnson and Jackson standing on the 3 point line while deferring to Buggs would suck the life out off our offense and the talent Prohm brought in.

Look at the greatest PG in ISU's history. What is Monte Morris' role with the Nuggets? As a ball hog traditional PG or just another cog in an offense of ballhandlers who can score?

 

[Drew0311]

Can we quit talking about a very below average point guard who does not go to Iowa State and has never gone to Iowa State?

 

[Messi]

Can we quit talking about a very below average point guard who does not go to Iowa State and has never gone to Iowa State?

feel free to share any 2021 recruiting news you have

 

[cykadelic2]

I just don't get the infatuation you have with Buggs. My take he is a prima donna without the skills to back it up. He was a hard pass for me last spring. Why are you focusing on a guy that isn't even on our roster? If all you want to do is bash Prohm and show you know more about PG's than he does how about you start a new thread and post there. I would suggest "Why I know more about PG's than Prohm"

The issue isn't about Buggs, it is about Harris' (in)ability to address the facilitator void on the roster and the recruiting choices made last spring to address that void.

 

[Hayes30]

Harris is comparable to Donovan Jackson & LW in terms of skill set. Buggs is comparable to NWB in terms of skill set.

After losing to Milwaukee in Hilton during the 2017-18 season, Prohm had to turn to NWB at PG to save the offense. Same logic applies this season. I highly question Prohm has a NWB type on the roster to bail him out. Buggs would have been that guy moreso than Harris.

Babb could shoot. Buggs can't.