Bigger George

[JVAR]

I have 0 inside information here, but I think Tre is in for a big season. Lot of hype coming from all over the place. He looks big 12 ready now. Last year not so much.

I ran into Tre at the Gateway Hotel with his grandparents last February. One of the nicest student athletes I have ever met. His grandfather was quick to brag on his academic abilities too. Awesome people. I am almost 6’2’ and he was a little taller than me. He looks smaller on TV.

 

[Tri4Cy]

Am I the only one who clicked into this thread hoping it was a plan to create an even bigger Niang cutout?

 

[isutrevman]

I ran into Tre at the Gateway Hotel with his grandparents last February. One of the nicest student athletes I have ever met. His grandfather was quick to brag on his academic abilities too. Awesome people. I am almost 6’2’ and he was a little taller than me. He looks smaller on TV.

With/without shoes?

 

[Cyclonepride]

I have 0 inside information here, but I think Tre is in for a big season. Lot of hype coming from all over the place. He looks big 12 ready now. Last year not so much.

Last year was tough. Trial by fire. But he performed well given the spot he was placed into a bit too early. It should pay dividends for him over his career.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

George is now a man. Time to get bodied, opposition!

 

[ClonesFTW]

I am very confident that Conditt and Tre Jackson will have the biggest improvements on the team this year.

 

[Snydes]

With/without shoes?

“It’s gotta be the shoes!”

 

[helechopper]

I've watched many years of basketball and, in my opinion, Tre is going to be an awesome college player. They type of guy you trust with the ball and will eventually make some HUGE shots down the road.

In 3 years, if I'm mistaken you can kick me off this board.

 

[VeloClone]

I've watched many years of basketball and, in my opinion, Tre is going to be an awesome college player. They type of guy you trust with the ball and will eventually make some HUGE shots down the road.

In 3 years, if I'm mistaken you can kick me off this board.

So this is a cannot lose proposition for this Cyclone board...

 

[helechopper]

So this is a cannot lose proposition for this Cyclone board...

TOUCHE!!! (with an accent on the "e")

 

[CySmurf]

Don't worry the ones that never go to games are the real experts around here.

And don't you forget it JSB...
...have we fired Prohm yet? ;-)

 

[Hayes30]

I've watched many years of basketball and, in my opinion, Tre is going to be an awesome college player. They type of guy you trust with the ball and will eventually make some HUGE shots down the road.

In 3 years, if I'm mistaken you can kick me off this board.

Thats my prediction for this year. Dude has put in lots of gym time.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Last year was tough. Trial by fire. But he performed well given the spot he was placed into a bit too early. It should pay dividends for him over his career.

He had an... inconsistent... freshman year. But I would agree he was thrown to the wolves before he was ready. He was brought in as a developmental guy to replace Wigginton and Horton-Tucker at some point, but then both of those guys (Wigginton was basically expected, but I think Horton-Tucker surprised us all going so early) left. I hope the experience early pays dividends for the young man later on when he is more ready for the large role on the team.

Remember his game against TCU in late February...?

40 minutes
170.6 ORTG
14.3% usage
82% true shooting
6/10 from the field
4/7 from three
2/2 from the line
18 points
5 assists, 0 turnovers (this was after Haliburton went down)
1 steal, 2 rebounds
only 1 personal foul
+8.5 net rating

A guy who consistently does the above is first-team all-Big 12. The problem is, for Tre, is he never had any other games in the Big 12 even approaching that. But we have seen him do it, at least once, at an elite level.

 

[moores2]

He had an... inconsistent... freshman year. But I would agree he was thrown to the wolves before he was ready. He was brought in as a developmental guy to replace Wigginton and Horton-Tucker at some point, but then both of those guys (Wigginton was basically expected, but I think Horton-Tucker surprised us all going so early) left. I hope the experience early pays dividends for the young man later on when he is more ready for the large role on the team.

Remember his game against TCU in late February...?

40 minutes
170.6 ORTG
14.3% usage
82% true shooting
6/10 from the field
4/7 from three
2/2 from the line
18 points
5 assists, 0 turnovers (this was after Haliburton went down)
1 steal, 2 rebounds
only 1 personal foul
+8.5 net rating

A guy who consistently does the above is first-team all-Big 12. The problem is, for Tre, is he never had any other games in the Big 12 even approaching that. But we have seen him do it, at least once, at an elite level.

There has to be a time period to adjust to the game here. I mean even Monte with his fantastic A/T ratio played off the ball his freshman year. I think watching the games again, a lot of the time Tre was playing "scared" so to speak. Lead to a large A/T ratio and turning down looks that he would have taken in his sleep in high school. You could see him become more and more confident as the year went on (That sweet floater on the baseline developing). I just think a year in a power 5 program did him a ton of favors. Not to mention he was our best on ball defender as a freshman.

 

[Sigmapolis]

There has to be a time period to adjust to the game here. I mean even Monte with his fantastic A/T ratio played off the ball his freshman year. I think watching the games again, a lot of the time Tre was playing "scared" so to speak. Lead to a large A/T ratio and turning down looks that he would have taken in his sleep in high school. You could see him become more and more confident as the year went on (That sweet floater on the baseline developing). I just think a year in a power 5 program did him a ton of favors. Not to mention he was our best on ball defender as a freshman.

Haliburton was our best on-ball defender.

He was just a couple of tiers above everybody else on that team in virtually all ways.

 

[moores2]

Haliburton was our best on-ball defender.

He was just a couple of tiers above everybody else on that team in virtually all ways.

I disagree. Halliburton was by far our best defender (overall) Steals, blocks, help defense etc. But he struggled mightily with working over/under screens and constantly trailed the ball handler waiting to make a block/steal. (His length had a lot to do with this). But if we had a one on one scenario I would have taken Tre guarding someone 1 on 1 rather than Halliburton. Halliburton was so good off the ball that he was still our best defender.

His quickness to cut off lanes was unmatched even by Halliburton.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I disagree. Halliburton was by far our best defender (overall) Steals, blocks, help defense etc. But he struggled mightily with working over/under screens and constantly trailed the ball handler waiting to make a block/steal. (His length had a lot to do with this). But if we had a one on one scenario I would have taken Tre guarding someone 1 on 1 rather than Halliburton. Halliburton was so good off the ball that he was still our best defender.

His quickness to cut off lanes was unmatched even by Halliburton.

We actually tangled about this once before.



https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/threads/justin-smith.256512/page-8#post-7177216

Your argument is more schematic and eye test.

Mine is more statistical. Our offense actually kept humming without Tyrese, but our defense imploded.

 

[isucy86]

We actually tangled about this once before.



https://cyclonefanatic.com/forum/threads/justin-smith.256512/page-8#post-7177216

Your argument is more schematic and eye test.

Mine is more statistical. Our offense actually kept humming without Tyrese, but our defense imploded.

In this situation I trust the eye test more than stats.

Halliburton was a great off ball defender, but on ball he was average. Tre was better on-ball.

Analytics are nice, but just a tool. A good basketball mind has a good eye for the game. The other weakness of over emphasizing analytics in basketball is that offense impacts defense and vice versa. For instance, a team might be solid at making 3 point shots, but missed 3 point shots can lead to long rebounds and high % transition baskets for the opponent.

 

[Sigmapolis]

In this situation I trust the eye test more than stats.

Halliburton was a great off ball defender, but on ball he was average. Tre was better on-ball.

Analytics are nice, but just a tool. A good basketball mind has a good eye for the game. The other weakness of over emphasizing analytics in basketball is that offense impacts defense and vice versa. For instance, a team might be solid at making 3 point shots, but missed 3 point shots can lead to long rebounds and high % transition baskets for the opponent.

These are all fair points, but I did notice something looking back at the previous exchange.

@moores2 originally said Jackson was our best "defender" -- full stop.

The more recent post said Jackson was our best "on-ball defender."

I think the former is incorrect and not supported by either the stats or the eye test. Haliburton was way too good at way too many things on defense, and his loss tanked our DRTGs late last season.

Saying Jackson was better matched up one-on-one on the perimeter, though, is a much more tenable argument. I can see one saying he was better than Haliburton in that limited-but-important role.

Haliburton just did so much more on defense off-ball and on the boards. There is a reason NBA teams might take him in the top-five. He has the potential to be an elite two-way player at multiple positions.

That kind of talent, potential, and the body to do it with is pretty rare for our species.

 

[CyclonesRock]

Just a question as I don't know what the answer is, but, who was tasked with covering the opponents "best" offensive player more? To me that would be our best defender regardless of what the stats say.