Margins?

[BillBrasky4Cy]

You look at it as 2 out of 3 games and I look at it as 2 out of all kickoffs since the 25 yard line rule was put in place (the entire body of work).

No, I look at it from a risk reward standpoint. Why even put the risk in play? It's is ridiculously dumb and I'm actually kind of surprised you are defending it. I love CMC and this staff but there is NO excuse for have two house calls in three games. You freakin adjust your game plan and move on.

 

[surly]

Snyder always used that kick short/pin 'em tactic. But he was a dummy.

 

[MeowingCows]

You look at it as 2 out of 3 games and I look at it as 2 out of all kickoffs since the 25 yard line rule was put in place (the entire body of work).

I don't know if any place tracks this, but the easy way to see value is to see if this strategy leads to turnovers/points in other means and/or if average returns given up are short of the 25 yard line. If it doesn't help generate points and doesn't affect the average opposing starting position any, then I wouldn't see value in attempting it.

Particularly if you know your ST unit sucks in varying ways, or so it seems.

 

[Clonefan32]

No, I look at it from a risk reward standpoint. Why even put the risk in play? It's is ridiculously dumb and I'm actually kind of surprised you are defending it. I love CMC and this staff but there is NO excuse for have two house calls in three games. You freakin adjust your game plan and move on.

Especially with a defense we like to think is a top unit in the Big 12. We've built a good defense-- give the other team the ball at the 25 and make them go the 75 yards on us. I'll bet most teams can't do that with regularity.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

Especially with a defense we like to think is a top unit in the Big 12. We've built a good defense-- give the other team the ball at the 25 and make them go the 75 yards on us. I'll bet most teams can't do that with regularity.

Exactly! CMC is a play the numbers type of coach so it shocks me that we are intentionally kicking a returnable ball. This the same coach who had us fair catch a ton of returnable punts last year. I truly don't get it.

 

[isufbcurt]

Especially with a defense we like to think is a top unit in the Big 12. We've built a good defense-- give the other team the ball at the 25 and make them go the 75 yards on us. I'll bet most teams can't do that with regularity.

If they have a problem going 75 yards then they will have more of a problem going 78, 80, 82, 84, etc. yards. Take the emotion out of it and look at it logically with probabilities and it makes sense. If you were to look at opponents starting field position from our kickoffs since the 25 yard line rule was changed I think you'd see that a strong majority of the time they start inside the 25.

And you might as well get used to it because it isn't going to change.

 

[Clonefan32]

If they have a problem going 75 yards then they will have more of a problem going 78, 80, 82, 84, etc. yards. Take the emotion out of it and look at it logically with probabilities and it makes sense. If you were to look at opponents starting field position from our kickoffs since the 25 yard line rule was changed I think you'd see that a strong majority of the time they start inside the 25.

And you might as well get used to it because it isn't going to change.

But again you take the risk of allowing them to score without even putting our defense on the field? To me it doesn't make sense to risk that to gain maybe 5-10 yards on a properly covered kick. Seems like a classic case of outsmarting yourself.

 

[isufbcurt]

But again you take the risk of allowing them to score without even putting our defense on the field? To me it doesn't make sense to risk that to gain maybe 5-10 yards on a properly covered kick. Seems like a classic case of outsmarting yourself.

the probability of a kick off return for a TD is pretty low. how many kickoff have we had under Campbell? How many KR TD's have we given up?

Blum probably knows both of these answers.

 

[Clonefan32]

the probability of a kick off return for a TD is pretty low. how many kickoff have we had under Campbell? How many KR TD's have we given up?

Blum probably knows both of these answers.

I'd be interested to know too how many actually start inside the 25. We've discussed kick return touchdowns, but there have been plenty that have gone past the 25 as well. I'm sure the yards gained inside the 25 is much less than the yards lost outside the 25 (if that makes any sense).

In my mind you just kick the damn thing out of the endzone and start at the 25.

 

[isufbcurt]

I'd be interested to know too how many actually start inside the 25. We've discussed kick return touchdowns, but there have been plenty that have gone past the 25 as well. I'm sure the yards gained inside the 25 is much less than the yards lost outside the 25 (if that makes any sense).

In my mind you just kick the damn thing out of the endzone and start at the 25.

I'd bet the other team starts inside the 25 more times than outside the 25. We've had some pretty good coverage the last few years.

 

[jbhtexas]

Great... It's a dog $hit strategy, we've had two returns ran back for six in our last three games. For what, to save 5 or 10 yards? Take the freakin play out of the game and just bomb it deep. If pinning them in the corner is such a sweet idea more teams would be doing it. Kickoff returns are a HUGE momentum swing play.

When your offense doesn't have capability/desire to get chunks of yardage, 10 yards of field position is not insignificant. It's another set of downs (typically 3 plays for ISU) you have to navigate through without making a mistake.

Personally, I would kick it out of the endzone every chance I got, and perhaps work on getting those yards back on the punt return. Setting up a kickoff seems like something that would take alot of practice time to do well, and that time could be better spent on something else.

 

[Jdk]

TRUST THE PROCESS!!

 

[CYdTracked]

Kansas has had ONE freakin season! Here is the grueling conference schedule they played that season...

K-State 5-7
Baylor 0-8
Colorado 6-7
A&M 7-6
Nebraska 5-7
OSU 7-6
ISU 3-9

You nailed it on this one. I was at the last game of the season when KU beat us and it was the only time I have ever seen their stadium packed for a game. After they beat us they played this video highlight reel of all the teams they beat that season and our first reaction was "that is not as impressive of a season as you might think, they played no one good this year." The Big 12 was down that year and they avoided both OU and Texas who went 11-3 and 10-3 that season. They lost to Mizzou after playing us which cost them a spot in the Big 12 championship game but did beat VA Tech in the Orange Bowl. Their non conference was Central Michigan, SE Louisiana, Toledo, and FIU and they blew all 4 of them out so not exactly like they were world beaters that season. Even ISU had some seasons back in the North/South division days that they benefited from missing OU and Texas. I always felt back then that if the Big 12 wanted to even the playing field a bit competitively that no team in the North should have to play both those 2 in the same season then have 2 years they don't play them at all.

 

[BillBrasky4Cy]

I'd bet the other team starts inside the 25 more times than outside the 25. We've had some pretty good coverage the last few years.

Using "inside the 25" as a blanket comparison doesn't tell the whole story though. Again, the difference in yardage is probably pretty damn minimal in the grand scheme of things. All I know is that kickoff coverage was horrendous on Saturday and we would be better off kicking the ball deep and taking the return out of the equation.

 

[cyatheart]

I don't know. I am pretty patient, Matt will figure it out, it took Dabo Swinney awhile to really get it rolling...but the constant special teams errors, the constant poor line play, the constant self inflicted issues, over and over again. It's getting old.

I guess the false starts were down on Saturday. Really I am pretty down on this because we just looked slow at every position on offense. Hopefully it's just rust.

 

[clonedude]

I wouldn't mind kicking it off down inside the 10 yd line if we could get a good hang time on it, but we were kicking line drives to their returner. He had plenty of time to run before any ISU defenders were down field yet.

 

[jbhtexas]

I wouldn't mind kicking it off down inside the 10 yd line if we could get a good hang time on it, but we were kicking line drives to their returner. He had plenty of time to run before any ISU defenders were down field yet.

This. And the kick has to be consistently high and to the right spot every time for this to work. Again, it seems like it takes alot of practice time to get good at this. Wouldn't that time be better spent on practicing field goals?

 

[madguy30]

This. And the kick has to be consistently high and to the right spot every time for this to work. Again, it seems like it takes alot of practice time to get good at this. Wouldn't that time be better spent on practicing field goals?

Hey! I just realized something. No missed field goals Saturday.

 

[SpokaneCY]

How many ISU players were missing Saturday?

11 on a kick off and another 11 on a punt.

 

[SpokaneCY]

Snyder always used that kick short/pin 'em tactic. But he was a dummy.

And high? With hang-time so we can get downfield?