Zion Griffin Transferring

Frak

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I am not going to blame Prohm on this one. Griffin had a ton of potential. When THT declared, we needed Griffin to take a major step forward and he didn't. I won't fault his effort on the court, but he didn't really do anything to convince Prohm to play him more. Not good on defense, not good on offense. We needed more than a hustle player or garbage man.
 

Aclone

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Talen Horton-Tucker had a pretty nice looking shot, it was his shot selection that was an issue at times. Wigginton's shot was very nice. Jackson and Grill both have a few things to work on (Grill's feet especially), but their shots are nice overall. Solo and Conditt both have good looking shots, but Conditt needs to actually have confidence in it. Even Lewis has a good looking shot but mentally he doesn't know when to shoot, when not to shoot, and his defense takes him off the floor.

Halliburton has probably had that form since he was little and either his father or high school coaches decided they were not going to fix it. Or, maybe they tried to fix it but Tyrese didn't want to change it because it was effective. His form is always going to look like that because he's been using it for all of his life. It'd be impossible for Prohm or any coach to be able to completely change it, rather they can only give him little tips to help out (like not dipping the ball as much).

And if you were to look back at Matt's freshman and sophomore years, you'd see a big difference in his feet when shooting. He constantly was kicking out his legs, wasn't completely getting square, etc. I have no idea if that was Prohm or if he made the adjustment himself, but his footwork got incredibly better and his shot got more consistent as well.
Jeff Hornacek had a weird but effective shot. It wasn’t until he got to the Suns that they made him break down and rebuild it. And that was with Johnny as his college coach.

something similar will probably happen with Tyrese.
 

Drew0311

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Larry Bird had the worst looking shot ever. The look of the shot is not important. It's the number of times you put it in the basket.
 

Clonefan32

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Larry Bird had the worst looking shot ever. The look of the shot is not important. It's the number of times you put it in the basket.

Yes and no. It's true all that matters if it goes in. But your form is relevant to your ability to get a shot off quickly and while contested. Also, in a case like Zion's, when a shot is that flat you lose all margin of error. It has to be perfect to go in. That's why they teach rotation and arc.
 

Aclone

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Griffin saw Johnson in practice everyday. Maybe this is more about being recruited over and less about lack of development.
When we have three players signed who are 6’5” or 6’6” and can all handle the ball, pass and shoot, I don’t think Johnson was the only “writing on the wall”.

if he’d developed, he’d have an experience edge on all of those guys.

Good luck to him, wherever he ends up.

BTW, someone on here clearly has no clue what “D 2” means in college basketball. Zion should do fine at a mid- or lower-major.
 

bosco

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Speaking of bad shooting technique... is this a thing under CSP?

Nixon's form was completely inconsistent, it was never the same stroke twice in a row.
Zion had the worlds flattest shot, like an attempted dunk from 20ft.
Hali has that slow mo, almost push shot from the hip.

It's like the polar opposite of Monte, Naz and Matty Ice. Did they lose a critical asst coach who was a great shooting technique guy? Is it just not a point of emphasis anymore? Does the current staff take for granted everyone will be a gym rat like Matt & Naz & Monte, and they just aren't?

I think the last time I saw a great shot technique was D-Jax. Am I off base here?
There is only so much you can do in fixing technique. Maybe a coach can point out certain things, tweak here or there. But if there is to much going on then it's counter productive and the technique worsens because the player is thinking too much.

I could live with Zion's shot if he could have been more mentally there on defense. Zion's lack of playing time wasn't due to anything physical. Not saying he didn't give effort but how much effort can you give in guarding empty space.
 

Statefan10

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Jeff Hornacek had a weird but effective shot. It wasn’t until he got to the Suns that they made him break down and rebuild it. And that was with Johnny as his college coach.

something similar will probably happen with Tyrese.
Wasn't there a story where they taped Hornacek"s left hand up so he wouldn't use it so much? I think my father told me that story when I had similar issues and he did the same thing for me.
 

Kurttr

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Part of the issue, is that these more recent recruits haven't been known as knock down shooters prior to coming to ISU. The work ethic of those mentioned is far from what any of the current team has. Which is part of the culture, or lack thereof.
Bingo. It appears that Prohm hasn't learned of the need to recruit guys that love BB and are gym rats. I don't know the facts but would make the same observation you do - maybe he could use a lesson from Campbell on this front.
 
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Statefan10

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Zion’s HS profile. #125 Composite isn’t a “phenomenal” ranking, it’s generally at the lower edge of four star.

https://247sports.com/Player/Zion-Griffin-46047721/high-school-202384/
Yeah as someone mentioned before, he wasn't that high of a recruit until I believe he played in a tournament where he hit like 8 threes in a game or something. I think KU might've offered him right then and there. That's when his rating blew up too.

You can clearly see every are he is lacking. He was never going to be a phenomenal shooter with how his arc is, but he could've received a ton of playing time if he would've been able to figure things out defensively.
 

kentkel

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Jeff Hornacek had a weird but effective shot. It wasn’t until he got to the Suns that they made him break down and rebuild it. And that was with Johnny as his college coach.

something similar will probably happen with Tyrese.
It was his wife, Stacey, that noticed the irregularity in his shot. As an avid follower of JH over his entire career (college & pro), I consumed all the Hornacek news. On many occasions, JH relayed this same story. I'm not at all disagreeing with you about Tyrese's situation, just trying to clarify that it was NOT the Suns or any pro scout/coach who corrected Horny's shot.
 

Statefan10

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Bingo. It appears that Prohm hasn't learned of the need to recruit guys that love BB and are gym rats. I don't know the facts but would make the same observation you do - maybe he could use a lesson from Campbell on this front.
Most of these kids eat, sleep and live basketball. It's their entire lives. Sometimes when you throw them into a completely different environment that changes. He's had a lot of guys that have been gym rats too. Guys like Shayok, Wigginton, Babb, Tyrese, THT are all gym rat types. That's why Babb made tremendous strides while here and the other guys are NBA level talent.
 

Cyforce

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Not sure the logic of the folks talking like this is a good situation for ISU. The yep he’s no good now we can get an immediate impact player. Hello McFly there isn’t just a stock pile of starter caliber major DI talent laying around waiting for an offer from ISU. To lose a 4 star after being in your system two years is not ideal however you try to spin it. No way in heck will any player that scholarship gets for 2020/21 contribute more than what Zion would have to the team next year.

Every school loses players almost every year. Be happy we're still losing the guys that can't get into the rotation instead of the guys at the top of it.
 

ManBearClone

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Prohm's job isn't to just hype someone up. It's to make him a better player. The fact no one on that staff was able to rework his jumpshot is telling. He had size and he had athletic ability, but his jumpshot never got better.

I don't think his lack of development was Prohm's fault, per se, but to act like his only job was to give him confidence is completely understating his role as a coach.

This and to put players in a position to best utilize their strengths. I think this is Prohm's greatest weakness. He is a system coach all the way. This was my takeaway from Chris Williams podcast also. If a guy doesn't fit his system they struggle. I see it with Conditt also as well as Jacobson this year. I think it was the same with McDermott. If they can get four year system guys they can succeed. But that doesn't seem to work well with the athletes you need to compete in the Big 12.
 

CloniesForLife

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I always wondered if he wouldn't have been better off working on being an undersized post rather than a 3&D wing. He was not very good at either the 3 or the D. I feel like he may have had more of a skillset to be a quick undersized post but who knows.
 

NENick

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Speaking of bad shooting technique... is this a thing under CSP?

Nixon's form was completely inconsistent, it was never the same stroke twice in a row.
Am I off base here?

Only disagree with Nixon. I actually was always mystified by how bad a shot-maker he was because I thought his shot was pretty good. Got off his feet, hands high, followed through, then missed
 

cw0012

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There is only so much you can do in fixing technique. Maybe a coach can point out certain things, tweak here or there. But if there is to much going on then it's counter productive and the technique worsens because the player is thinking too much.

I could live with Zion's shot if he could have been more mentally there on defense. Zion's lack of playing time wasn't due to anything physical. Not saying he didn't give effort but how much effort can you give in guarding empty space.
I agree and disagree. I disagree because look at Lonzo Ball, he has completely changed his shot and is shooting the best he has since going to the NBA (almost physically hurt me to say something positive about a Ball). The difference is that he's an NBA player and can spend 8+ hours a day to work on that shot. Zion doesn't have that luxury. Also, the Pelicans didn't have any real expectations this year. Sure they might have expected to make the playoffs but they were ok with Ball having the green light and continue to work on his shot in games. Again, Zion didn't have that luxury. In college ball you don't just get one season where you say we have no expectations and just let guys play through mistakes. So if he missed one shot and was pulled shortly after, his confidence probably went way down. I'm not a fan of "blaming" a college athlete but maybe if he worked on his shot and defense more in the off season it could have helped and Prohm could have done some things to help him be more successful during the season.
 

CyclonesMoney

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You don't even have to be close to the program to know why Lewis and Griffin didn't develop. There's multiple instances of players who developed under Prohm including Monte but that's not the point here
Lol, Monte developed under Prohm? Put down the pipe. Or were you living in the mountains Afghanistan when Monte was already ripe for the league but came back thinking Prohm would help him improve his draft stock? Prohm failed to do that due to his disruption of the flow of the game with them silly timeouts etc. Prohm has not developed anyone at ISU. Show me a first round pick since he’s been here. Even those that stay here, show me one that is of Ejim’s caliber. Just one. Ejim was not a 5star or 4 but Fred developed him into a legit player. Ejim was a lottery pick player, age is what prevented him. So don’t talk about developing players here because I have not seen anything. Get real and quit being emotional. Prohm is driving this program to the times before Hoiberg got here. Next year will be even worse if Tyrese leaves. Better be praying this virus sticks around because it’s the only shot Prohm At not being exploded at being a mid major league coach, because we are not making the NIT next year either.