I'm all for having a high bar, but the bar should be set at realistic levels. You can't set a bar that has literally never been done here before.
This is why Prohm must go........
- Thread starter ohly2311
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And that's where I think the last 10 years has shifted the expectation. Routinely beating Top 25 teams. Comfortably in the tournament. Damn near unbeatable at home. NBA level talent. It wasn't just a flash in the pan, either. There was a good 4-5 year period where all these things were true. At some point the expectation fairly shifted, as it should.
I'll say it again - do you want an average coach at Iowa State or an above average coach?
The entire purpose of firing and hiring coaches is to find above average coaches, right? We have enough data to show that Steve Prohm isn't an above average coach - would anyone disagree with that? I could make the case that he's below average or even average - but, for me as a fan, that't not good enough and I want more. That doesn't mean I expect more Sweet 16s, Final 4s, or conference titles. But I do expect us to not finish dead last or second to last 2 out of 3 years.
Are you saying that because Matt Campbell has Iowa State football where it is, if he left, we should go back to hoping for one bowl game per decade and losing seasons 3 out of 5 years? Because historically, that's where Iowa State football has been. Hoiberg, just like Matt Campbell, raised the bar for Iowa State athletics. And I don't think we should settle for "well historically we have been worse so this coach is doing just fine". That's a loser mentality.
Suppose there is any chance we can cite coronavirus concerns and just not bother with the trip to KC if Bolton isn't playing?
The problem with this argument is you're just talking about a window of 3 years for Prohm. If you or anyone else is going to throw out Prohm's first two years and not credit him for those successes, then that's fine, but your argument now comes down to a 3 year period of time.
In those 3 years we've been bad for two, and pretty good for one of them. Does that justify firing Steve? Because if you say that it does, then man it's going to be tough to sell this job to other coaches. Coaches are not going to want to come to Iowa State because if you have two bad years out of 3, you're going to be fired.
We need to get the Power and Light District to help with the buy out. It's in their best interest.
That's fair. Our facilities are fine but you're right, they aren't anything better than anywhere else.
Didn't stop Jaime firing Morgan.
If all we want to be is what our history says we should be, we should probably put Matt Campbell on a plane to East Lansing, or Fayetville, or Starkville or Tallahasee or any of the other jobs he has turned down.
"Your expectations are to high" is a really dumb argument when all anyone is asking is don't lose by 30 at home, 20+ regularly and be in the conversation for the tournament which has been the norm since Floyd/Eustachy.
"Your expectations are to high" is a really dumb argument when all anyone is asking is don't lose by 30 at home, 20+ regularly and be in the conversation for the tournament which has been the norm since Floyd/Eustachy.
Flawed arguments?
imagine thinking a person who doesn’t hate the coach sufficiently is the miserable one.
And look who replaced Morgan.. A man who gave us year after year of absolutely abysmal basketball. The grass is not always greener. And I'm not saying we shouldn't want more because we should.. But us firing Steve too early and hiring someone even worse would catapult this program backwards even farther.
You don't fire Steve this year. You give him next year with this recruiting class and see what next year brings us. If there's success, build off of it. If it's more of the same and we're awful again, then you evaluate. With the talent we bring in, the maturity we bring back, and the probable grad transfer or two coming in, we should not even be close to as bad as we are this year. If we are, then the conversation about his job should come into question.
I understand what you're getting at, but in hindsight I feel like Jaime was bound and determined to get rid of Wayne one way or another, and Wayne's last season being a mediocre one after coming in with high expectations was reason enough to fire him.
Wayne's first season ended up going to MSG in the Big Apple for the NIT finals, and while the NIT finals certainly aren't a Sweet 16, I feel it was a pretty nice accomplishment nonetheless especially coming after the offseason from h*ll (the LE fiasco, Adam Haluska transferring to Iowa, etc.). His 2nd season got off to a bad start, but then we ended up winning at Kansas and made it to the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament, a pretty solid season all things considered.
I was unhappy with WM being let go like that until I read somewhere that Gary Thompson reluctantly approved of it and taking the program in a new direction. But there were some really fun moments in those three seasons; I still feel like Wayne gets treated unfairly by a fair number of fans on here.
Seriously though, this year has to suck for those businesses nearby. ISU and KSU (and too a lesser extent OSU) rounding out the bottom of the league means there will be little to no traffic. Plenty of KU fans but theyre a lot more likely to come in, watch the game, and leave, without spending money in the area at restaurants, hotels, etc..
Decent chance the semifinals are WVU-Baylor and KU-Tech. There might be dozens of fans there from the non-KU teams.
Wasnt there a story out there about some recruiting violations around that time as well?
You know, now that you mention it there was something that came up towards the end of that season that was drug up by a complete doucheb*g posing as a sports journalist by the name of Gregg Doyel (and seriously, the guy is a turd. I would pay money to watch him get a violent beating and pay better money to do it myself. The guy is the biggest POS in sports journalism, which is saying quite a bit when you put him up next to Skip Bayless). Anyway, IIRC, the "controversy" revolved around paying a third party to set up the basketball schedule and some shenanigans that revolved around that. I think it was much ado about nothing, and we didn't even get light sanctions because of it. It ended up being a complete non-story in the end. If I have my facts wrong and someone who knows better or more than I do wants to chime in, then feel free.
Now, remember that this whole site started as an effort to fire Wayne Morgan, so guys like Jeremy and others back from the start of CycloneFanatic.com were all about getting rid of him; I remember a few of them telling the rest of us about how bad things were behind the scenes and just how much trouble we potentially we could have gotten in. Naturally, when pressed for details we were given the run-around; "Oh, we can't really tell you. It's top secret! We'll tell you when we can, but it's too soon!". IMO it was complete BS.
Our expectations were not very high when Matt Campbell came to town. The expectations were essentially "please don't suck". He's changed those expectations by putting out competitive teams every year. Steve came into this program and we had back to back solid years, years where we had the same success as Hoibergs teams had and people were poo pooing Steve and the team.
And I'm sorry, but by this logic of Floyd and Eustachy's "norm", you would've fired them or wanted them fired. Johnny Orr would've never been successful and you probably would've fired Floyd and Eustachy had they had another bad year as well.
I had an Iowa fan buddy who is a big Fran fan. Basically his sole argument is they are at least competitive and it could always go back to the Licklitter years. I always found that rationale to be ridiculous. Remaining stagnated in mediocrity due to fear of it being worse is not a plan.
To me the correct way to analyze his success is not looking at it on a year-by-year basis but as a whole. There is literally no measure where you can say our program is in a better position than it was before he took over. We have regressed as a program under his leadership. The level of play, our national perception, all of it has gone down.
He talks about "leaving your jersey in a better place." Well, show me one way he's left his ill-fitting pants in a better place?
Couldn't agree more, although by doing so I will be called a "Prohm apologist" , which I am certainly not. I expect to have seasons better than this year even with 3 players leaving early and your best player getting hurt. We should have been able to roll out 5 walk-ons on New Year's Eve and won handily. And that starts with coaching. His ability to fill gaps with jucos and grad transfers has been non existent.
However, he does have a good class coming in and young guards with potential. If you run Prohm, get ready to retrench further and start from scratch again. If next year doesn't show significant improvement, all bets are off.
