Is Lewis injured because
- Thread starter omar34
- Start date
If he has a nice season at UNLV next year and it's due to improvement of players and there's an identity, bring him aboard.
Pretty sure WV got 3 or 4 wide open looks immediately after Lewis and Zion were put in the game last night. Tyrese went right to TL to talk to him at the first dead ball, seemed like he was trying to tell him where he should have been. I feel for the kid because he plays hard most of the time but its crazy how far behind he is on defense. Zion is a little better but both are lost as soon as the other teams rotates the ball or sets a screen.
Hi Twins! I generally really enjoy your contributions, but I am a pretty data and metrics driven individual. I am hoping that you can clarify a couple of your statements as I seek to understand your thoughts. You have mentioned that T. Lew, "... can't defend and he can't shoot." With regard to defense, I dont have access to any advanced metrics. I know that you have mentioned DWS in this thread, but can you help me understand what that means? My assumption is that Lewis ranks last on that metric based on what you have said above. Is that the case? My understanding is that DWS estimates the number of wins a player produces for his team due to his defensive ability, and that a low DWS is an indicator of poor performance. It seems to me that the DWS ought to be compared to an OWS (if that is a thing) to determine a net conribution to a win. Feel free to correct me if I am misunderstanding the metric. As far as I can tell that metric doesn't tell a complete story about an individual's full ability to help his team win.
Do you happen to know where he ranks on the defensive efficiency scale compared to his teammates?
With regard to criticizing T. Lew because, "...he can't shoot," I did take some time to evaluate those metrics after the second Baylor game, as I understand them better. My conclusion is that Terrance is actually among the better shooters - and scorers for that matter if you prefer to differentiate - on the team. I posted the thoughts below less than a week ago, and I would bet that the numbers, nor the sentiment, have changed much. Given the traffic on this thread, other Fanatics might find it to be an interesting analysis.
"I have so many thoughts. I have been at every home game this year except for Kansas (I was on a work trip, and it ended up being a blessing in disguise). I am going to go on a bit of a rant, feel free to ignore.
Thing one, I really like Prohm… as a person. And as a recruiter. I cannot, however, understand his coaching (or lack thereof) decisions 90% of the time.
Last night, on so many possessions, we did not make it more than 2-3 feet inside the 3 point line with the ball at any point. Several of those possessions, we did not even make it that far. One of those possessions was on what I think was Bolton’s second made three. He stood at the top of the key, waited for the offense to get set up, and with out a single pass, jacked up a contested three ball with 8 seconds left on the shot clock. He made it, and the crowd roared, but let’s not let that distract us from how terrible of a possession that was. Those points were not scored by coaching, but rather an individual effort.
With regards to roster management, I think he is woefully stubborn.
Terrance brings a lot to the court:
Willingness to go after boards (outrebounded by 11 last night). He is tied with Haliburton for highest rebounds per minute from a guard (Zion is higher, but listed as a forward) – with fewer opportunities than any other scholarship player.
Slashing ability – Key on a team that stands around the perimeter. Just a note – two of the three possessions last night that I watched specifically for this, Grill stood in the corner – AND LITERALLY DIDN’T MOVE. Did not take a single step. That is either Caleb not knowing what to do, or TERRIBLE coaching.
Steadfastness – Has stuck with the program when many other players wouldn’t have – and is getting passed over by players who are worse by both metrics, and the eye test.
Scoring – He is our second highest scoring guard in points per minute (if you don’t include Schuster). On a team that struggles to break 50 on any given night, perhaps adding some scoring wouldn’t be a bad idea.
- Bolton
- Conditt
- Schuster
- Young
- LEWIS
Further, He is our highest guard in field goal percentage (if you don’t include Schuster), behind only Haliburton.
He is third in 3 point percentage (if you don’t include Steyer), behind only Haliburton and Bolton.
Last night, there were exactly 3 players who made more than 1 basket. Bolton, Haliburton and Conditt. Despite that, Conditt got fewer minutes than everybody EXCEPT Lewis and Grill. When we are getting annihilated in the post, does it matter who is getting annihilated? In that case, PUT IN SOME DAMN SCORING!
Not particularly Turnover Prone. He has the fourth best turnover per minute rating on the team, outside of walk-ons. Only Nixon, Grill (who doesn’t handle the ball at all), and Jacobson are better.
Given all of this, I have a few questions:
- Why are his minutes per game lower than any other scholarship player at this point (if you take out the outlier game that he started)?
- Why is he trusted to start in the event of an injury, but to only see 2 minutes of game action last night?
- Why does her have the fewest played games of any scholarship player? He has played in 65% of games. Next lowest is 90%.
- Why is Coach Prohm consistently mismanaging rosters?
- When will Terrance leave to play for a coach that might give him an opportunity. If is does, I will thank him for his contributions, wish him the best of luck, and completely understand his decision.
Lewis is behind Haliburton, Bolton, Jackson, Solomon and Zion in 3 point percentage. He also has the worst defensive rating on the team. Also I don't like Prohm as a head coach for Iowa State but I don't believe he's mishandling Lewis. They don't trust him out there
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Using that metric to base your claim that Lewis can't shoot seems misinformed. If Terrance makes his next 3pt attempt, he will sit behind only Haliburton (and Steyer for the sake of transparancy) in three point percentage. I think the reality is that he hasn't gotten consistent enough game time minutes to really make a true determination of his shooting abilities. I think that is why so many people are advocating for Terrance to get some run.
If you think that we do have enough data points to assess Terrance as a shooter, are we going to gloss over the fact that his FG percentage is higher than everyone on the team but Conditt (and again, Steyer for the sake of transparancy)?
I cannot speak to the coaching staff's trust in Lewis, and you have consitently shown that you are well informed. That being said, if the metrics indicate that one of the most effective overall players on a per minute basis rides the bench more than any other player, I would argue that is the very definition of mishandling Lewis.
Again, I want to mention that I am pretty metric driven. Before I dive into what the actual data tells us, I want to break down what you just said:
"He is great at scoring at the rim..." - I think this is great. He is able to get to the rim, which is more than most on the team can say. Not only that, but he FINISHES at a higher rate than anyone but Conditt - look at his FG percentage. I don't get why you think this is a knock on him... I prefer that our players seek higher percentage shots. Anybody else feel this way, especially with how ABYSMAL our shooting has been this year?
"...when the games already been decided." Are we really going to blame the kid for when the COACH decided to put him in the game? I, for one, appreciate that he tries to make the most of his chances. What would prefer - that he doesn't try to produce when he gets into the game.
Now for the data...
Terrence did not get meaningful minutes until the Iowa game. That being said, I feel like he made the most of his opportunities until that point. For instance, against Bama, he hit his only shot attempt - a 3 pointer - after riding the pine for 39 minutes of game time.
I don't know that Terrence even got minutes in the first half vs Iowa. When he did get in he shot 75% from the field when the rest of the team shot 40% from the field.
When Terrence did get time early, he was productive.
PFW - 8 of 11pts in first half
FAMU - 6 of 10pts in first half
OU - 8 of 10pts in first half
Baylor - no points in first half minutes, but other positive stats. Only 7 minutes in game, split between halves.
Tech - didn’t score any pts in first half, but neither did anyone else (21 pts). Scored 20% of the teams points in the second half. He certainly didn’t play 20% of the team's minutes.
Auburn - 3pts in first half, 9pts in second and sparked a near-comeback
Baylor 2 - last 2 mins of 1st half, no shot attempts
WV - 8 pts in second half only
Based on the data, the only game that really supports your claim is WV. Might be some recency bias there... When Terrence gets first half minutes the trend is for him to score more in the first half. If the game has, "already been decided," by then, again, the issue points to coaching.
I love data. It tells a story while removing biases and feelings. I don't know what your or Prohm’s angles are, but they are not supported by data as far as I can tell...
Very detailed, but you can stop with the data stuff. Lewis's problems, and Prohm's issues with him, are not data driven.
Can everyone just stop ******** about this and accept the fact that Lewis won’t be here next year lol.
That’s fair. My intention was to show that while many of the posters on this thread believe that, “Lewis isn’t good enough to play,” that isn’t what the numbers show us. Just look back to page one of this thread.
By all accounts that I can find, Lewis is a good teammate, good student, and good kid. If Prohm is sitting Lewis because he has a personal beef, letting that beef get in the way of the team success or putting the best product on the court for the fans and the team is my criticism. Like others have mentioned, Prohm seems to always need to have somebody in the doghouse to make an example of. I have not seen that with any other coach on any other team. It is baffling to me, and unfair to a kid who has given as much to the program as Lewis has. If there is something going on behind the scenes, don’t play him. But playing him only when you “need him” (Haliburton’s injury, last two mins of Baylor 1), sends the message that Prohm really only cares about digging his heels in to make a point, and only when it is convenient for him.
As a fan and season ticket holder, it would be nice to have consistency with something that the coach can control, Because nothing else about this team is consistent - except for the that it seems poorly coached.
Everyone within the program knows why Lewis doesn't play. It's not "personal beef". The only player that you could even say he had beef with was McKay and even that's a stretch because he earned what happened to him
This confounds me. This post, and a few others, make it seem you have inside info as to the “why” here. If that’s the case, that’s fine and I’m not asking you to give any more information at all. The thing that confuses me though, is that you also say, in other posts, that he doesn’t get minutes because he’s “not good enough”.
If there is something that is keeping him on the bench, the “not good enough” argument can’t be it, Man. It just can’t be.
It has been shown, over and over and over, that the “he’s not good enough” is false.
Did you watch the game Wednesday? He literally stands on defense. Like no effort whatsoever. Combine that with being a poor 3 point shooter I think you can run with the he's not good enough angle if you want
If you want, you can, sure. If I look at the game against WVU, the one thing I noticed that killed us was something that has killed us in many other games, and it’s not what most will gravitate towards.
It’s rebounding. Particularly on the defensive end. Against WVU, we had a total of 19 defensive rebound. WVU had 15 (!) offensive rebounds, and many of them resulted in easy put backs.
Here are the defensive rebounding stats from the WVU game:
- Jacobson with 5 in 34 minutes
- Haliburton with 4 in 39 minutes
- Bolton with 3 in 34 minutes
- Conditt with 3 in 20 minutes
- Lewis with 2 in 12 minutes
- Nixon with 1 in 17 minutes
- Griffin with 1 in 11 minutes
- Solo with 0 in 20 minutes (was also 0-8 from the floor)
- Jackson with 0 in 19 minutes (at least he is starting to put the ball on the hoop)
Taking the above numbers to 40 minutes, and Lewis was the 2nd most effective player on the defensive glass (behind Jacobson).
EDIT: I double checked my math, and I was wrong. Over 40 minutes, Lewis was the most effective player on the defensive glass at 6.7 DRB/40 mins. Followed by Conditt at 6, Jacobson at 5.9, Hali at 4.1, Griffin at 3.6, Bolton at 3.5 and Nixon at 2.4.
Twins...when you (or others) say “he just isn’t good enough”, I think you are showing a bias that the stats/metrics simply do not support
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