This is why Prohm must go........

[VeloClone]

I thought Win 2 Orr's first year was vs. Colorado. (Without looking it up -- correct me if I'm wrong).

You are correct. Thanks for catching that.

 

[cyclones500]

You are correct. Thanks for catching that.

Yw. I didn't mean to ignore your main point (that was a rough first season). I happen to remember it was CU because my family & I were going to go to that game, then I got sick midway through the week and we couldn't. I was so bummed (would've been my first trip to Hilton).

And of course since I couldn't attend, it was a W.

 

[CoachHines3]

i don't think anyone was comparing prohm to roy lol

it just amazes me how some people think we've been like UNC tho in basketball and have numerous national titles and being 9-12 right now is the end of everything.

do people also forget we were picked to finish 7th in the big 12?

 

[VeloClone]

i don't think anyone was comparing prohm to roy lol

it just amazes me how some people think we've been like UNC tho in basketball and have numerous national titles and being 9-12 right now is the end of everything.

do people also forget we were picked to finish 7th in the big 12?

I think I need to go self medicate - Coach Hines is making sense!

 

[CoachHines3]

I think I need to go self medicate - Coach Hines is making sense!

ive been quiet around here past few days thought i'd come in with a rational thought!

 

[VeloClone]

I didn’t say always win at home. I am fine with losing once, or even twice a year at Hilton. But to lose numerous games the past 3 years at Hilton is disappointing to say the least.
And I don’t hate prohm at all, I always cheer on Iowa State. I would never root for them to lose. I think everybody can agree that prohm is a nice person and can recruit players with potential. I said he did a fine job the first two years with Fred's players, and it’s true. Those were his best two years out of the five that he’s been here.

In the 30 years before Hoiberg ISU had 3 or more home losses 23 times. (This includes the entire coaching tenure of Orr, Floyd, Eustachy, Morgan, and McDermott.) So something that happened 77% of the time is unacceptable and should never happen? Every coach in at least the last 100 years (I didn't bother looking further back than that) has at least one season of more than 2 home losses.

I think you are being a little unrealistic.

 

[CoachHines3]

In the 30 years before Hoiberg ISU had 3 or more losses 23 times. (This includes the entire coaching tenure of Orr, Floyd, Eustachy, Morgan, and McDermott.) So something that happened 77% of the time is unacceptable and should never happen? Every coach in at least the last 100 years (I didn't bother looking further back than that) has at least one season of more than 2 home losses.

I think you are being a little unrealistic.

stop youre being too rational

 

[VeloClone]

stop youre being too rational

Yeah sorry that my facts are getting in the way of a good old fashioned emotional meltdown.

 

[jsb]

When you are in the Top 25 for the better part of five years in a row I think that makes you a consistent Top 25 team. Especially when we are taking about that run in the last decade.

5 years is a blip. The person I was responding to made it seem like we’ve been a top 25 team historically which is not true. If the poster said we should work to be a consistent top 25 team that would be valid.

 

[Cyinthenorth]

Give Prohm another couple years, why not. I've always WANTED him to succeed. But how much time do we give him? We can't be content forever. Eventually, the rubber is gonna melt off from all the spinning. Let's see what he can do with this talented recruiting class coming in. If they have an NIT run in them next year, are we satisfied? I guess it'd be better than the abyss we're heading for this year, but still not really that acceptable. How come when Iowa State is bad, they're flat out bad? It has been years since we were a wind up on the wrong side of the bubble type team. When we have an off year, we skip average to mediocre and slide all the way to downright awful.

End stunted rant.

 

[Clonefan32]

And I get that obviously we need to win and this year is frustrating, absolutely.

My issue is I'm not so sure everyone does want him to succeed it feels like hes constantly being criticized no matter and can't win with a portion (probably small, but gets magnified with comments) of this fan base.

First two years he is successful on the court, its not a matter of if he can coach or not, but rather its the fact that he didn't get those players so it doesn't really count.

Down year in year 3, fine whatever.

Year 4 has a great year with all of his own players (minus Nick Babb I think?) and then we want to criticize him after the fact because it wasn't good enough they underachieved despite a big12 tourney title. That team was picked to finish 7th in the Big12 and they got a 6 seed. They actually massively exceeded preseason expectations yet its still a black mark on his record seemingly.

We have a down year again but the main point is he's been criticized for everything under the sun it seems and has shown success in those areas at different points but it goes unnoticed.

People say he doesn't develop players, well he's about to have his 3rd player drafted that was uniquely his own player (so take out Niang. Nader, Morris). Nader also made a huge jump from his junior year to his senior year (first year with prohm). Shayok was thought to be an impact guy, but nobody predicted him to the first team all big12 player he was after transferring and sitting a year under prohm. Tyrese has made huge strides, people questioned whether he could handle the huge usage increase and he has I think even better than most optimistic analysts thought.

He gets players, he's great at finding under the radar talent (see Tyrese, Cam Lard even, Solomon Young to some extent, George Conditt none of these guys were rated highly). I think Tre Jackson could be the next in line there maybe this upcoming PG Jaden Walker (I think that's his name?).

I think theres a lot of reason to be patient especially considering his track record of getting players. Just feels like everyone wants to jump on to fire him as soon as we have a downturn. Which, all programs have (except the blue bloods and even they do on occasion). As much as we want it to be ISU isn't an easy job, and doesn't have a long standing tradition of sustained success, lets not get ready to fire a guy over 2 bad years.

I think the crux of the argument lies in how you view the teams in years 1, 2 and 4. Some see those teams as a success with the NCAA appearance and Big 12 Championships in season 2 and 4. Others see those as disappointments relative to the talent on the team. To me, that's a bigger part of the argument than the down years.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Ah, and here's some evidence right away. It's almost like the hardcore Prohm defenders have to grasp at misleading facts or obvious biased stats to say that he's undoubtedly the guy anymore

You're going to dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back too hard.

Nobody is saying he is *undoubtedly* the guy on here anymore.

That is a complete strawman argument.

We have a very different set of facts now than we did before this season, and many of us in the generally pro-Prohm camp (me included) have updated our views accordingly. We are not seeing very much encouraging out there right now.

The point of Roy/UNC was not that "Prohm is just like Roy/ISU is just like UNC." No, the point was that even blue blooded programs have down years. You would expect Iowa State, which is at least one or two tiers down from that, to have even more of them.

 

[IASTATE07]

The point of Roy/UNC was not that "Prohm is just like Roy/ISU is just like UNC." No, the point was that even blue blooded programs have down years. You would expect Iowa State, which is at least one or two tiers down from that, to have even more of them.

This seems really hard for some to grasp.

 

[Sigmapolis]

This seems really hard for some to grasp.

Never let facts and logic get in the way of a good CJ.

 

[megamanxzero35]

I think something that hasn't won many people over onto Prohm, he hasn't done anything that Fred didn't do or that we haven't done in the last 20 years. Good, bad, whatever, that probably affects our view some.

 

[isufbcurt]

I think something that hasn't won many people over onto Prohm, he hasn't done anything that Fred didn't do or that we haven't done in the last 20 years. Good, bad, whatever, that probably affects our view some.

I don't remember Fred winning at KU.

 

[megamanxzero35]

I don't remember Fred winning at KU.

I'll give you that. But I guess I had in my mind bigger things that are more bullet point resume builders. Fred and Eustachy have made the Sweet 16 once. Prohm has made the Sweet 16. Won the Big 12 tournament. We have done those before. Prohm has, to a certain degree, kept the level the same or hit the same highs. I think that works against him when he has a struggling team like this year.

 

[isufbcurt]

I'll give you that. But I guess I had in my mind bigger things that are more bullet point resume builders. Fred and Eustachy have made the Sweet 16 once. Prohm has made the Sweet 16. Won the Big 12 tournament. We have done those before. Prohm has, to a certain degree, kept the level the same or hit the same highs. I think that works against him when he has a struggling team like this year.

Agree. But realistically you get to a point where there are less and less things to out do. I mean look at it this way, ISU has been father than the sweet 16 once in their entire basketball history.

 

[Messi]

I'll give you that. But I guess I had in my mind bigger things that are more bullet point resume builders. Fred and Eustachy have made the Sweet 16 once. Prohm has made the Sweet 16. Won the Big 12 tournament. We have done those before. Prohm has, to a certain degree, kept the level the same or hit the same highs. I think that works against him when he has a struggling team like this year.

Prohm and hoiberg have very similar highs. Prohms lows are a lot lower than Fred went. Lower than a lot of ISU coaches to be honest.

 

[megamanxzero35]

Agree. But realistically you get to a point where there are less and less things to out do. I mean look at it this way, ISU has been father than the sweet 16 once in their entire basketball history.

Yep, I agree. Obviously, not thrilled with this years outcomes. But I feel for Prohm in that he is trying to maintain our best decade ever, under different circumstances(G-League guys can make some serious money and transfer market is not as fertile as it was) and he doesn't really have any goodwill to fall back on as he tries to navigate now.