Some people still think personal responsibility is a thing. Old, out-of-debt, socially well-adjusted people mostly. Luckily we're breeding them out of gene pool.
Generation Y and Z Debt
- Thread starter Bobber
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Some people still think personal responsibility is a thing. Old, out-of-debt, socially well-adjusted people mostly. Luckily we're breeding them out of gene pool.
Umm, no. PARENTS fail here first. Schools should not be a substitute for absent parenting and giving your kids a solid financial footing. Most schools have taken “home economics” out, which is maybe your point but it’s lazy as a parent to assume someone else should teach this stuff. Controversial Gen Xer here...sorry.
I think you have a bit of a failure of imagination then.
You can say the system is a "given," but no order in human affairs is ever a given. You seem to think the credential rat race is forever, so the only thing we can do is pour more into it and hope for the best to push more people through. Sorry, but stamping out degrees does little to create good jobs. It only decides who receives them. So back to the example...
If we did not have the emphasis on undergraduate education that we do as a society, maybe she could have went straight into medical school out of high school, after an AA, or after working a short while and saved the time/money she blew as an undergraduate. You end up with the same doctor with the same relevant training in the end.
Sound crazy? Not really -- used to work like that. Medical schools, like corporate America, just decided to be picky because they could and others paid for it.
Calling any higher education "worthless," if I ever did, is certainly hyperbole on my part.
I definitely learned some computing and composition skills while an undergraduate that are with me to this day. Then again, I probably would have learned them at the same age if I was working at a similar job to the one that I had, anyways. I would imagine it is probably the same for you even going into a profession like law. Does it really beat out a control group?
There is plenty of literature out there about the cognitive effects of higher education...
https://www.ssrc.org/publications/view/985FB16E-4023-E011-ADEF-001CC477EC84/
...I could start citing if you want to go down that path.
Their raw data source is here...
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm
Even if the average debt for an undergraduate is the price of a new Camry instead of a decent used one, I still do not feel much sympathy for them.
(1.) The earnings premium they should have should take care of that fine.
(2.) Been under much more (and like 6x-7x more) -- and been fine.
Not sure why college is a right. I knew it was important so I stooped down so low I actually started working as a pre-teen then enlisted in the USAF for, among other things, education benefits.
A couple things to think about:
https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/22/pf/emergency-expenses-household-finances/index.html
The gist of this article is that 40% of Americans - right now, today - can't cover a $400 emergency expense.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...rrassing-to-rely-on-them-after-27/1705355001/
This article initially explains that parents are angry that their children rely on them financially until they are almost 30 years old. In the next paragraph, these children think (over half of them, anyway) they will be more successful than their parents.
I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I can only refer to my learned experience. I didn't buy my first home until I was 34 years old (and I had a 30 year mortgage at that point). I didn't upgrade again until I was 49 years old, and that was because I built my house myself. My family didn't own 2 vehicles until my first wife had to go to work because our oldest went to college.
Today, people want what their parents had, but they want it right now. And they are (probably) going into debt that eats up every bit of income they have. To think that 2 of every 5 adults in this country couldn't come up with $400 for a blown-up microwave or the deductible on a vehicle collision is pretty astounding.
I'm a Boomer, and I have suffered through a lot of criticism in these threads. Some of it is valid, to be sure, but I think it is human nature to first insist that we will be different (better) than our elders, and then gradually realize we have basically turned into them.
https://money.cnn.com/2018/05/22/pf/emergency-expenses-household-finances/index.html
The gist of this article is that 40% of Americans - right now, today - can't cover a $400 emergency expense.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...rrassing-to-rely-on-them-after-27/1705355001/
This article initially explains that parents are angry that their children rely on them financially until they are almost 30 years old. In the next paragraph, these children think (over half of them, anyway) they will be more successful than their parents.
I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, I can only refer to my learned experience. I didn't buy my first home until I was 34 years old (and I had a 30 year mortgage at that point). I didn't upgrade again until I was 49 years old, and that was because I built my house myself. My family didn't own 2 vehicles until my first wife had to go to work because our oldest went to college.
Today, people want what their parents had, but they want it right now. And they are (probably) going into debt that eats up every bit of income they have. To think that 2 of every 5 adults in this country couldn't come up with $400 for a blown-up microwave or the deductible on a vehicle collision is pretty astounding.
I'm a Boomer, and I have suffered through a lot of criticism in these threads. Some of it is valid, to be sure, but I think it is human nature to first insist that we will be different (better) than our elders, and then gradually realize we have basically turned into them.
I don't agree with you often, but I agree here to a point. I put in the caveat that parents' shouldn't sacrifice their retirement (which you can't take out loans for) at the cost of college (which you can take loans for). I think to your example though, the assumption is those parents have plenty they could save for retirement (whether or not they are is a different story).
I do think it's ridiculous the burden some want to put on an 18 year to figure out the most profitable career, figure out how to pay for it, understand the full ramifications of all of this - and some don't seem to have the realization that these kids do not always have parents who are well-versed in this process to guide them through it. Or even access to school counselors and such to guide them through FAFSA. My family worked with a professional accountant each year for farm taxes and he ****** up one year and missed the FAFSA deadline so I had a nice chunk that I got to pay on my own because of someone else's mistake. Most of my student loans actually came from that year.
My husband worked all through high school. The money he saved up through four years of working was gone in the first year of college. And he didn't have to send any money back to help support his family, he was able to spend it all on tuition.
Of course I think it's good for the kids to get their feet wet and be invested in the cost of their education. But we shouldn't be drowning them in it. My husband and I having an affordable amount of loans has been the biggest step up in life we've had. And it's put us in a place where we can be saving for our son's college now to hopefully give him that boost as well.
There is quite the arbitrage opportunity available for doing school cheaply in the Midwest and moving to the East Coast for higher salaries. I recommend it to anybody.
Living in a trash can during my 20s helped, too.
Not hiring now, but we were late last year. It tends to ebb and flow. PM me a CV.
If you can't control the income, at least pay attention to the out-flow.
I'm one of the arrogant 5-10% that don't have to "worry" about money but that's from working my entire life, enlisting in the USAF, and being reasonably practical with my money.
You can tell this board is populated mostly by college-educated professionals, many of us with postgraduate degrees. When we talk about opportunity for the youth of America, we are talking mostly about our children or ourselves who, again, attended college and ascribe our success to that path in life, either from what we learned in school (what most others in here would say) or the good jobs we were able to secure from it (more my argument).
The simple fact is, though, that puts us among the elite of our society and firmly in the professional class. Roughly 1/3rd of the country has a college degree. So what is the situation with the rest of us? The other 2/3rds? And before you say, "They should go to college, too," I do not think that is a truly serious response. I doubt even the most ardent supporters of such an idea would suggest that 100% college graduation rates would mean that 100% of jobs were suddenly those of white-collar professionals, and, if college is done right, not everybody is going to have the cognitive or organizational skills to do it. It is supposed to be hard to graduate.
For the remainder, having a functional K-12 (or even more importantly, K-6 and preschool) system is going to matter way more. I tend to think that teenagers are already going to be what they are going to be. Most human capital is formed early in life at home and in your early schooling. Access to college is not what this population needs -- they need literacy and numeracy and access to trades and job placements. I find it interesting our discussions always converge about people fighting it out towards the top, rather than lifting those towards the bottom.
There were not many people I went to high school with who did not go to college that I feel would have been well-served by it. Heck, there were a lot that did and failed out after a semester. There were a lot that could have been well-served by finding a decent job or apprentice program after high school and getting on the right track in life, however.
The simple fact is, though, that puts us among the elite of our society and firmly in the professional class. Roughly 1/3rd of the country has a college degree. So what is the situation with the rest of us? The other 2/3rds? And before you say, "They should go to college, too," I do not think that is a truly serious response. I doubt even the most ardent supporters of such an idea would suggest that 100% college graduation rates would mean that 100% of jobs were suddenly those of white-collar professionals, and, if college is done right, not everybody is going to have the cognitive or organizational skills to do it. It is supposed to be hard to graduate.
For the remainder, having a functional K-12 (or even more importantly, K-6 and preschool) system is going to matter way more. I tend to think that teenagers are already going to be what they are going to be. Most human capital is formed early in life at home and in your early schooling. Access to college is not what this population needs -- they need literacy and numeracy and access to trades and job placements. I find it interesting our discussions always converge about people fighting it out towards the top, rather than lifting those towards the bottom.
There were not many people I went to high school with who did not go to college that I feel would have been well-served by it. Heck, there were a lot that did and failed out after a semester. There were a lot that could have been well-served by finding a decent job or apprentice program after high school and getting on the right track in life, however.
Or find and work a job that gives you experience and pays the bills while sorting out what your "passion" is. It's not nearly as soul-sucking as you'd think.
Work is work - no small jobs, just small people.
I am the youngest of 8. Are you saying I'm not important?!?
Be honest - they don't even know your name...
I am the youngest of 8. Are you saying I'm not important?!?
I'll bet your baby book is filled with pictures of the family pet.
The Amish can still make stuff. I guess a meme is "made" so your generation has that going for it.
You should do "positive phrase of the day" toilet paper!
Those are all platitudes and I'm good with it. I'm trying to take advantage of opportunities I DO have, not ***** about opportunities I think I'm owed.
I'm not sure - are you saying doctors, lawyers, engineers, CPAs, SHOULDN'T have to go to school?
I love the prescient colloquialisms from the bootstrap crowd in this thread.
The only thing my great grandpa used to tell me was “go get my licorice you little ****” and “tell your grandma to make me a sandwich” and “do I look like a gum ball machine? Go ask your mommy for candy”
The only thing my great grandpa used to tell me was “go get my licorice you little ****” and “tell your grandma to make me a sandwich” and “do I look like a gum ball machine? Go ask your mommy for candy”
Nobody becomes an a$$hole through OJT. It usually takes an average law school to bring those traits out in full...
Great lessons - he made you provide for yourself and helped you identify another avenue with which to procure candy. Genius!
These threads are always good at identifying people who talk just to hear the sound of their own voice
Dunno...but I'm probably closing in on my 3rd quarter...
