To all the Prohm Haters...

[Urbandale2013]

I'm waiting for some of the Prohm haters to go with this one -- yeah, but Prohm would have lost to UAB by 5+ points! Seriously, after the next bad loss or big win, it's coming... there's lots still to meld with this team with Lindell & Lard having missed so much time and having to adjust to conference play v. noncon; will be more bumps, but, hopefully, we get there sooner than later... great to get last night's win.

There may be someone who would say that but I doubt that Prohm loses to UAB. I am critical of Prohms coaching but I will give him credit where it is due. His teams are a lot more consistent. I am far less fearful of a first round upset with him as coach. He has done a really nice job of improving the defense since taking over.

The part that gets really old is the people who are incapable of recognizing when people give credit. The people that attack criticism of the staff as people who don’t understand basketball or have something against Prohm. I would love nothing more than for Prohm to lead us to multiple national titles. Just because I don’t think that will ever happen without significant coaching improvement doesn’t mean I’m an idiot.

 

[Cat Stevens]

For me, the perplexing thing is what is it about Prohm that these people hate? Is that he is a southeasterner and doesn't have Iowa/upper midwest roots? Is it because he doesn't have a list of P5 schools on his resume, and as such isn't good enough for ISU? Is it because he doesn't turn a blind eye to out-of-control player shenanigans for the sake of winning, and actually holds players to standards (like expecting them to attend practice)? Is it that he holds religious convictions?

Like this poster who is waving the "Hoiberg Standard" flag and questioning whether ISU really finished out the TT game...that is just so far out there that there that there has to be some vendetta beyond basketball driving it. You can't even attribute it to sheer stupidity.

That’s the part that bothers me. You can nitpick every coach. You can always see mistakes. I yell at my tv sometimes when they try to inbound the ball.

But Jesus the guy loves, absolutely loves, Iowa state. He always says his favorite part of the season is senior night to let the kids have time to speak. He started alumi weekend bringing back generations of former players, and inviting them to be part of the current program.

He holds players accountable, they don’t get trash heaped like BDJ.

He’s a good solid coach. He’s not elite yet. We will see if he gets there. But by any objective measure, he’s done a good job here.

I do think part of it is Fred’s rock star image. Iowa state got a lot of pub for that. Prohm is just a guy who wants to coach basketball. He doesn’t dress great. He’s soft spoken. Not flashy. Give him a whistle and a practice court and he’s happy.

 

[Halincandenza]

There may be someone who would say that but I doubt that Prohm loses to UAB. I am critical of Prohms coaching but I will give him credit where it is due. His teams are a lot more consistent. I am far less fearful of a first round upset with him as coach. He has done a really nice job of improving the defense since taking over.

The part that gets really old is the people who are incapable of recognizing when people give credit. The people that attack criticism of the staff as people who don’t understand basketball or have something against Prohm. I would love nothing more than for Prohm to lead us to multiple national titles. Just because I don’t think that will ever happen without significant coaching improvement doesn’t mean I’m an idiot.

This is just dumb.

 

[Halincandenza]

Why does every win and loss turn into some fight between people about Prohm and Hoiberg? Why can't we like them both and also be critical of each one without it being a reflection on the other?

 

[SCyclone]

Did we really close it out though? Last night we more or less survived because Tech couldn’t put a run together.

I'll bet you'd b!tch if we hung you with a new rope.

 

[HitItHard58]

Is it because he doesn't turn a blind eye to out-of-control player shenanigans for the sake of winning, and actually holds players to standards (like expecting them to attend practice)? Is it that he holds religious convictions?

This is where it seemed to start with some people I know. They were obsessed with Lard's minutes and couldn't accept that maybe Cam wasn't earning them. It just had to be that Prohm is a complete moron who isn't playing somebody who should be on the floor at all times. Tried pointing out that there could be a lot of behind the scenes factors playing into it and it could have a negative effect on the team as a whole to just play him anyways. That was dismissed with something along the lines of not every college athlete is a choir boy yada yada yada so I've given up trying to help them see the light.

 

[SCyclone]

So when we win the other team just played bad. And when we lose it's who we are? Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason they couldn't put together a run was because of our guys? The only other blemish on Tech's record this season was against Duke.......by 9. And they have only lost 5 games at home since their new coach arrived. I would say our guys had something to do with it.

This. So many posters only blame bad things on us (as though the other team didn't even show up), and refuses to allow that winning might be a result of good play by us, instead of poor play by them. Not every win or loss is completely on ISU.

 

[Cat Stevens]

This is where it seemed to start with some people I know. They were obsessed with Lard's minutes and couldn't accept that maybe Cam wasn't earning them. It just had to be that Prohm is a complete moron who isn't playing somebody who should be on the floor at all times. Tried pointing out that there could be a lot of behind the scenes factors playing into it and it could have a negative effect on the team as a whole to just play him anyways. That was dismissed with something along the lines of not every college athlete is a choir boy yada yada yada so I've given up trying to help them see the light.

Actually it started with Jameel.

 

[HitItHard58]

The '99-'00 season? They lost two conference games on the road, one in double OT and one in OT after a half-court shot to tie it up. People were fine with that as I recall...

Guessing the point was that they lost to Drake just like the 11-12 team did.

 

[Lineup]

just get a out of bounds play that works ,not that hard

 

[madguy30]

I think this is part of the divide. I think the group that thinks Prohm is an awful clueless coach is very small (maybe one poster). The bigger pronounced divide is in those that think he is a decent coach that would be good at a slightly lower level. In the Big 12 we need a great coach. The talent level of coaches has been diluted a bit the last year or so but there was a time where we had 9 great coaches if I have my timeline correct.

We absolutely should make the tournament 80%+ of the time. We should however also have those great years. I don’t have any sort of confidence that Prohm gets us to those. Look at the 2 Sweet Sixteens for comparisons sake of what our potential should be. In Fred’s run we got to a Sweet Sixteen with a major injury and almost beat the eventual champions. With Prohms run we got two double digit seeds and lost relatively handedly to a team that lost in the Elite Eight.

IMO we should be striving for the next step with Prohm. We shouldn’t be accepting more of the same. I’m by no means advocating for Fred. I think his hatred of recruiting is a big block for him. I just think people need to Raise the Standard to the one that Fred set when he was here.

I hate this narrative. So you want the standard to be what it's been since Prohm has been here save for one season? Watching Fred's team was a voluntary heart attack. No lead was safe.

UConn basically beat ISU really badly save for a strong push at the end, and since that team was hardly dominant no one knows if a healthy Niang actually matters. They were also down like 8 points with little time left before a couple of 3s dropped to UNC and got a break with a UNC injury that took some of their size advantage away.

 

[Max57]

Prohm: IMO he could be the best recruiter we've ever had. On that front, it seems we're in really good hands.

I know he's been around the game his entire life but he's still relatively early in his head coaching career. My guess is he'll continue to get better. Let's not pull a UT (Rick Barnes --> hot seat --> fired).

With 4-5 minutes left last night it looked like we were headed to another poor result. Good for the team that they changed that script -- it might just propel them to something special.

 

[heitclone]

Love Prohm, wouldn't trade him for anyone but the 5 sec call out of a time out is baffling. It's not the first time this has happened. To me, that's the only area he struggles, out of bounds/end of half/out of timeouts, Prohms teams are super inconsistent in those situations. The good thing is, that should be fixable with more emphasis.

Giving away the Baylor and K State games were frustrating but last night they showed some resiliency. The only way you learn to win games like that, is by winning games like that. You have to start somewhere, lets hope last night was start of turning that corner. I'm super excited about the rest of this season and what CSP has built going forward. This program is in great shape.

 

[ISUChippewa]

I hate this narrative. So you want the standard to be what it's been since Prohm has been here save for one season? Watching Fred's team was a voluntary heart attack. No lead was safe.

UConn basically beat ISU really badly save for a strong push at the end, and since that team was hardly dominant no one knows if a healthy Niang actually matters. They were also down like 8 points with little time left before a couple of 3s dropped to UNC and got a break with a UNC injury that took some of their size advantage away.

I'm certainly not going to be critical of Fred for winning that UNC game, but the rest of your post does speak to the fact that a certain percentage of fans hold Prohm to a much higher standard, and an unfair one at that, then Fred Hoiberg was held to.

 

[NoCreativity]

I'm taking a break from this board but since I assume most of this post was directed at me I'll take the time to respond. I don't hate Prohm and there are certainly some great things he's done here.

#1. I love what he's doing with high school recruiting. There is really nothing to work on here, he's pulling in highly touted recruits who are NBA talent. You need those type of guys to win conference championships and make deep NCAA runs.

#2. I love what he's doing with out defense. Last year was a down year, but in the other 3 years you can clearly see an emphasis on defense. Defense travels so I expect us to continue to compete well on the road.

#3. I think he's a good guy, he wants whats best for the program. I've been questioning his disciplinary tactics but its shown to get results and help build character with out players.

Now for the other part. The main reason I get so frustrated and vocal after losses like the other night are 2 main reasons:

#1 WE ARENT PROTECTING HILTON! I REPEAT, WE ARE NOT PROTECTING HILTON. This is honesty my main beef with him. The last four years we've let numerous teams we were better than come in and push us around in front of our home crowd. This is completely unacceptable. With Fred you knew there is no way a team is coming and winning unless they were clearly more talented or they got hot shooting. The only teams I remember losing to were Missouri and Kansas when they were Top 10 programs, and Baylor got us once because they shot out of their minds one night.

Now, mid tier teams are coming in and winning at an alarming rate. We would blow #1 teams like Kansas and Oklahoma out of the water, then turn right back around and lose to to West Virginia and Baylor. I wont even get into the disaster that last year turned into. The Milwaukee loss aside, which shouldnt happen to any coach here, we were completely blown out alot last year at home.

I've been to games the last 4 years and its just not the same atmosphere anymore. Something has changed and we need to find a way to get that back. If we ever want to dethrone Kansas its a must you protect your home court. Games where we gave away like on Saturday are completely unacceptable unless you are ok with going 11-7 ever year.

#2 His in game adjustments and is inability to adapt are extremely frustrating to watch. We've lost 3 games this year in the exact same manner and almost had a 4th last night. This has already been discussed in depth so I dont have much more to ad, but he needs to improve on his in-game coaching skills. He doesnt seem like he has ability to adapt to change unless his back is completely against the wall. An example of this is in 2016-17 when we were struggling with 4 guards. It took him until February 4th that year before he finally realized we were getting killed inside and adding even 1 competent post completely changed our season. Another example is the Wiggington thing right now, the guy should be starting.

#3 His transfer recruiting has been extremely average compared to the talent Hoiberg was bringing in now. Hoiberg brought in at least one player each year that was equivalent to a 5 star one and done guy. Prohm hasnt shown the ability to be able to do that. Shayok and Jacobson are by far his best transfers and they are up there with some of Hoibergs best, but overall he's had far more busts than serviceable Big 12 players. I think landing Shayok, Jacobson, and Nixon is a huge step in the right direction for him.

So in closing, start making Hilton an automatic loss for teams again, start working more on in-game adjustments and finishing games, and continue getting high quality transfers and Prohm should be here for a long time and expecting NCAA tourney teams every year.

I also apologize for being so negative on here, the last couple games were 4 years of frustrations boiling over. It was the complete epitome of everything that I think has gone wrong in the last 4 years, losing in Hilton, to a team we were clearly better than and who didnt even have their POY up to full speed, and the way we couldnt close out down the stretch was a little too much frustration for me.

 

[CloneFan4]

Admitting you’re clueless and know nothing is a big step for you.

Build on it

Will you help me babe?

 

[Cat Stevens]

Will you help me babe?

Nah. I’m already three miracles into the world. You’d just be me showing off.

Stay with your understanding that you’re clueless and do better

 

[RedDog]

just get a out of bounds play that works ,not that hard

Yep time for the 'ol picket fence, it usually works everytime.

 

[CloneFan4]

Nah. I’m already three miracles into the world. You’d just be me showing off.

Stay with your understanding that you’re clueless and do better

I can't do it without you

 

[CYdTracked]

Can't believe we still have to deal with this stupid argument after every game 4 years into Prohm now. The guy wants to be here, is doing a great job of recruiting, and is knocking off Top 10 teams yet people still find things to ***** about and keep bringing up Fred in the process. I'm thankful for the years Fred gave us but he didn't want to stay here for the long haul and moved on and so should others. We have a quality coach who essentially had to suffer through 1 down year due to Fred leaving him a 2 year gap in HS recruiting which left an unbalanced roster of classes. Ton only have to endure 1 bad year vs at least 2 he's brought in some very good recruiting classes so far and closed that gap very quickly so it wasn't a prolonged down period while the roster was rebuilt. Imagine if he has missed on either last year's or this year's freshmen class, we'd have a lot more issues to be talking about right now than how we finished a game out beating the #8 ranked team on the road.

Does this team need to work on a few things? Definitely, no one is denying that. It is frustrating to struggle to inbound the ball sometimes, not hit a critical FT in a tight game, or be smart with the ball in the closing minutes of a game but I don't see Prohm making excuses for that and everything he's said so far this season regarding those things I'm sure they work on it extensively in the film room and practice but the bottom line is the players still have to execute what they are coached on. They played unselfish basketball last night and had better ball movement on offense and you don't get that kind of play without some good coaching that players are buying into.

I was getting a kick out of the announcers talking about how these were the 2 best FT shooting teams in the conference then watch ISU go 13-19 for .684 and TT 6-18 for .400. I hope we aren't on pins and needles all season with this team at the FT line, had a couple crucial misses again last night too.