Why didn't the Big 4 Classic work?

[isufbcurt]

The thing sold out two years ago. Was down last year because the teams were all down. It will probably be down this year mainly because it is being killed.

I'm tired of people comparing a game at Hilton vs game at Wells Fargo. Of course it will feel different . IT IS NOT A HOME GAME!! It is more like the feel you get at a tournament (holiday or NCAA). Boy...sure would hate for the team to get any experience playing in that environment. (sarcasm)

Tired of the snowflakes that can't handle "people cheering against the Cyclones". Good grief. Again...have you ever gone to a tournament game? (obviously not)

Hilton season ticket holders always seemed negative on this. That might be understandable.

It was also better when held PRIOR to Iowa vs ISU game.

Bottomline: it didn't fail due to lack of interest. Iowa killed it.

Listen I know your a "Everything Des Moines Fanboy" but if I think WF sucks compared to Hilton that's my right to compare the two. If Drake or UNI want to play ISU then come to Hilton, if they don't like that go find another game.

Maui was a real tournament that will prepare the team for tournament game. Playing one game in a concert arena against a mid major isn't giving ISU tournament prep.

I guess I'm a snowflake because I don't like being around hawks. You enjoy being around people you don't like that annoy you?

 

[Skyh13]

As people have mentioned, I think there definitely was an overestimation of people wanting to pay for both games. We all see everybody's teams and how they're doing, these 4 teams aren't a mystery to anyone. And quite frankly if somebody wanted to go to Iowa City to see a game that ISU wasn't in, they could. Iowa is big, but not that big. And Des Moines isn't a novel or exotic location to Iowans, so the city isn't specifically a draw.

If people were going to pay for the whole weekend, then it would need to be a tournament. Two games Saturday with a consolation game and a championship on Sunday. I know this doubles the number of games, probably cutting into their revenue.. but I feel like it's the only way to have people want to go there for just these 4 teams and stick around. Plus it then actually sets up a state champ.

Of course the major issue with that idea... is the CyHawk game. Are people going to be cool with the potential of another ISU v UI game? Maybe people would enjoy that on a neutral site, who knows. Cause the regular CyHawk game isn't going away.

You could invite other regional schools, as well.. but that isn't gonna draw TV money, so you still have to rely on ticket sales. For that you'd have to invite national schools, at which point it's just another early-season invitational bball tournament trying to vie for eyes.

 

[isufbcurt]

It's pretty simple. With 4 fan bases being brought to one location this game should be sold out easily every year, but alas it is not. Each non-ticket buyer has their own reasons for this and that is why it didn't succeed.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Moving the goalposts -- er, seats -- in order to declare a sellout does not make it so.

It is a major undertaking to add that additional seating and only cost effective for the NCAA tourney.

You can "flat earth" this argument all you want, but you don't know what you're talking about so I'd suggest stopping while you're behind.

 

[Cycsk]

Do I count more than the other 14k+ that bought tickets on average for this event?

My obvious annoyance on this thread is its premise.

It would be like going to UNI and asking, "why did the Iowa State vs UNI home and home fail?"

huh? It didn't. ISU just said they wouldn't come any longer.

Thi Classic isn't dying due to lack of interest. it is dying because Iowa said they wouldn't come any longer .

Technically speaking, you are correct that key teams said they wouldn't be part of it anymore. But there was waning interest in the event. I've gone multiple times, but this year it wasn't even on my radar. Granted, 8 home football tailgates and a good bowl game have kept much of my interest from shifting to basketball.

I suspect that the negotiations would have required teams to take less money (or more risk) because of the impending sense of lower revenue. It just wasn't worth it.

 

[capitalcityguy]

It's pretty simple. With 4 fan bases being brought to one location this game should be sold out easily every year, but alas it is not. Each non-ticket buyer has their own reasons for this and that is why it didn't succeed.

It sold out 3 of the last 4 years (and was close last year despite all four teams being down).

 

[SerenityNow]

It is a major undertaking to add that additional seating and only cost effective for the NCAA tourney.

You can "flat earth" this argument all you want, but you don't know what you're talking about so I'd suggest stopping while you're behind.

Wow...calm down.

People have different opinions. That's what CDub asked for. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't make them wrong.

I know Iowa was a big reason why this is ending, but I also don't see or hear too many fans of ISU upset it's ending. I'm sure JP will figure out a way go still have Drake and UNI on the schedule.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Technically speaking, you are correct that key teams said they wouldn't be part of it anymore. But there was waning interest in the event. I've gone multiple times, but this year it wasn't even on my radar. Granted, 8 home football tailgates and a good bowl game have kept much of my interest from shifting to basketball.

I suspect that the negotiations would have required teams to take less money (or more risk) because of the impending sense of lower revenue. It just wasn't worth it.

But your're projecting your own thoughts/feelings. Not the reality of the attendance numbers over the years to draw your conclusion.

 

[Cycsk]

It sold out 3 of the last 4 years (and was close last year despite all four teams being down).

Yet, I couldn't give away my extra set of tickets last year.

 

[theshadow]

It is a major undertaking to add that additional seating and only cost effective for the NCAA tourney.

You can "flat earth" this argument all you want, but you don't know what you're talking about so I'd suggest stopping while you're behind.

I've been to all of the Big Four games, the NCAA tourney games, NCAA wrestling, and high school championships. I've also been in the back of the house for those events, so I know what I know.

I know that NCAA basketball didn't pick WFA for its available space or amenities. (It's called politics and money.) I know what they had to do to transform BOH space into "work" areas. I know the shenanigans that were involved to get extra "seats" for NCAA wrestling to make the capacity number look better.

I know that despite your continued argument, an 88% sale rate to last year's Big Four (13,828/15,500) does not constitute a sellout.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Wow...calm down.

People have different opinions. That's what CDub asked for. Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't make them wrong.

I know Iowa was a big reason why this is ending, but I also don't see or hear too many fans of ISU upset it's ending. I'm sure JP will figure out a way go still have Drake and UNI on the schedule.

I was commenting on the capacity issue with Wells Fargo. That is not an opinion.

 

[HFCS]

Big 4 was a great idea for families in western or central Iowa that have fans of 2-4 teams in the same family around the holidays. Great holiday activity for those families without having to drive to eastern side of the state.

For an all ISU family or all Iowa family it probably really sucked.

I enjoyed it because my family fits the top description and I went twice when I was back home for holidays.

I totally get why others (most) wouldn't though.

 

[Cycsk]

But your're projecting your own thoughts/feelings. Not the reality of the attendance numbers over the years to draw your conclusion.

What I'm not projecting is the absence of interest on this site for Saturday's games. There is no buzz. There is minimal action on ticket reselling. Nobody is talking about activities before/after the game with Cyclone fans. Yet, we can't stop doing that for the bowl game in San Antonio. I know they aren't the same, but the absence of interest in the place that should have the most interest (the CycloneFanatic.com site) is quite notable.

 

[capitalcityguy]

Yet, I couldn't give away my extra set of tickets last year.

Dip in attendance last year has been well covered already.

BTW...I sold my 2 extra tix the other day for this year's event for face value. To all of 15 minutes on Craigslist.

That said, anecdotal evidence is a poor indicator for almost anything, so not worth much in either of our cases/arguments.

 

[capitalcityguy]

I've been to all of the Big Four games, the NCAA tourney games, NCAA wrestling, and high school championships. I've also been in the back of the house for those events, so I know what I know.

I know that NCAA basketball didn't pick WFA for its available space or amenities. (It's called politics and money.) I know what they had to do to transform BOH space into "work" areas. I know the shenanigans that were involved to get extra "seats" for NCAA wrestling to make the capacity number look better.

I know that despite your continued argument, an 88% sale rate to last year's Big Four (13,828/15,500) does not constitute a sellout.

I've never claimed a sellout last year.

 

[Cycsk]

Dip in attendance last year has been well covered already.

BTW...I sold my 2 extra tix the other day for this year's event for face value. To all of 15 minutes on Craigslist.

That said, anecdotal evidence is a poor indicator for almost anything, so not worth much in either of our cases/arguments.

More than anecdotal. I'm one of those guys in a few social circles that people go to for extra tickets or info about getting tickets. I even had people asking me for tickets to the Drake football game! Yet, nothing for last year or this year's games in Des Moines. I'm all in for the idea and really think a true "state champion" oriented event could be great. But this idea has run its course.

 

[capitalcityguy]

What I'm not projecting is the absence of interest on this site for Saturday's games. There is no buzz. There is minimal action on ticket reselling. Nobody is talking about activities before/after the game with Cyclone fans. Yet, we can't stop doing that for the bowl game in San Antonio. I know they aren't the same, but the absence of interest in the place that should have the most interest (the CycloneFanatic.com site) is quite notable.

Agreed which is another reason I liked the event. I think it reached a different segment of the fanbase....many who's only chance to see the team in person was this event. Less die-hard and thus not likely to be on this website. I don't think that is a bad thing.

 

[Cycsk]

So CCG, your answer to why it didn't work seems to be "It did work, but the key teams bailed on it."

But, why do you think they bailed on it? Was it a simple money grab on their part and they thought they could make more money with another home game? Does EIU just not like to share? Was it embarrasing to some fan bases to see how few of their fans showed up? Did their fans just not like the price point, sight lines, or something?

You often have decent inside info about stuff in DM. Did the promoter want to change the terms of the agreement to be less favorable to the schools? Are there tensions between personalities at WFA with ADs of some schools? I don't know anything, but I could imagine any number of these sort of things playing a part.

 

[jsb]

It sold out 3 of the last 4 years (and was close last year despite all four teams being down).

Maybe calm down a bit.

You should tell your friends at Wells Fargo to better prepare for crowds because thd concessions and crowd control are terrible.

 

[jsb]

So CCG, your answer to why it didn't work seems to be "It did work, but the key teams bailed on it."

But, why do you think they bailed on it? Was it a simple money grab on their part and they thought they could make more money with another home game? Does EIU just not like to share? Was it embarrasing to some fan bases to see how few of their fans showed up? Did their fans just not like the price point, sight lines, or something?

You often have decent inside info about stuff in DM. Did the promoter want to change the terms of the agreement to be less favorable to the schools? Are there tensions between personalities at WFA with ADs of some schools? I don't know anything, but I could imagine any number of these sort of things playing a part.

It ended because Iowa wanted to end it.