Star Wars Expanded Universe Thread

[harimad]

I think the fact that early presales of Solo were strong indicate the opposite. It's not casual fans that bought all those early tickets. Based on early presales they were predicting upwards of 170 million and it didnt come close to that. I think only Star Wars fans went to see Solo. Its the casual fans that stayed away for the most part.

That might be generally true. The facts, as you present them, support that theory.

But in my specific case, it was definitely not true. Solo is the first Star Wars film, since the original, that I have not watched in the theatre. (I was 4 years old in 1977.)

I love Star Wars and I adore Donald Glover. But TLJ completely ruined it for me. I'll be waiting for video or cable for this one.

 

[Die4Cy]

That might be generally true. The facts, as you present them, support that theory.

But in my specific case, it was definitely not true. Solo is the first Star Wars film, since the original, that I have not watched in the theatre. (I was 4 years old in 1977.)

I love Star Wars and I adore Donald Glover. But TLJ completely ruined it for me. I'll be waiting for video or cable for this one.

You shouldn't. It was a fun time. I understand where you are coming from, I believe Disney has messed up terribly with their first two installments of the trilogy, but their one off stories have both been good.

It's ok to hate TLJ and enjoy Solo. Pretty easy, actually.

 

[CysRage]

I was thinking for a minute I was one of the only people who liked Solo. I loved TFA and Rogue One, liked Solo, and hated TLJ. I thought everything Disney has done to revive the Star Wars brand has been successful but they burned some bridges in TLJ that JJ Abrams made in TFA (thanks Rian Johnson..).

 

[CYCLNST8]

You shouldn't. It was a fun time. I understand where you are coming from, I believe Disney has messed up terribly with their first two installments of the trilogy, but their one off stories have both been good.

It's ok to hate TLJ and enjoy Solo. Pretty easy, actually.

I’ve seen Solo twice and thoroughly enjoy it. Probably my favorite of the Disney movies.

Unfortunately, Ron Howard’s movie is suffering because of Ruin Johnson. There is an active boycott from the hardcore fans that would normally be scheduling repeat viewings and dragging along all their friends. Casual fans tag along when the core fan base is excited. You see this with Marvel pumping out multiple features every year, so “Star Wars fatigue” is total BS. You don’t **** with Luke Skywalker and get away with it.

 

[BryceC]

I'm a big proponent now that Kathleen Kennedy needs to go mainly due to two reasons:

1. No plan. There is no overarching story, so they are simply making up everything as they go with every different filmmaker wanting to make their own stamp at the detriment of the overall story.
2. Poor history with directors. Bumps are inevitable and everyone deserves a few mulligans in their life. Kevin Feige had his Ant-Man woes and even altered his slate some by pulling the Inhumans off of it. However, that is just what they are for Kevin Feige... a few bumps in what otherwise is super-smooth pavement. Kathleen Kennedy only seems to have bumps with very few stretches of smooth pavement. Sure, she has even smoothed out one bump after the fact with Rogue One. That still doesn't change the fact that she was in charge of hiring the original directors in the first place. Regardless, these bumps seem to just keep coming to the point where you start to ask yourself who the real problem is. In fact, nothing seems to be going smoothly anymore and what does goes smoothly (The Last Jedi), should have been altered. At what point do you point fingers so much at others to the point that it needs to get turned in the other direction? I'm at that point with Kathy. I've stood by her all the way until now, but the proof is in the pudding at this point.

I agree with you but for different reasons. Marvel has it going really well now because they can do some different genres in between movies. Ant-Man was a weird little heist movie. Ragnarok was a classic 80s action comedy. Dr. Strange was a weird magic movie. Black Panther was a race politics ode to an Africa we would all like to see exist.

Solo (and I haven't seen it yet) should be a fun heist movie. It should be Ocean's 11 in space with some good characters we all know and like. Since the success of Rogue One, it seems like everybody wants to make the same overarching space opera. There is absolutely no room to breathe. I do think there is some Star Wars fatigue because each movie is exactly the same.

Here is why I think they need to take the reigns from Kathleen Kennedy and give them to Dave Filoni. I think Kathy has given us two really fun characters in Rey and Finn. They are great. Everybody else in the new movies is either a holdover from previous installments or just ripped straight from the old EU (Ben Solo). The problem is that they have given them nothing to do. Finn went on the ridiculous Canto Bight quest, and Rey had the shortest Jedi training ever. Their time was a waste of a movie.

Filoni did several things I think are better than what we've seen from the new trilogy so far - He gave us the Anakin we should have seen in the prequels in the Clone Wars, and he created a new small ship and crew that were absolutely charming with new characters. He's done the mystical side of star wars. He's given us Ahsoka and Hera, two of the best female characters in pop fiction bar none.

I just think for all of Kathy's "Let the past die" stuff, (which I am in 100% favor of by the way) she can't let it go. I think she's out of ideas. I think with the new way movies are produced, you need a TV guy at the head as well. He should be steering the ship right now and I think he has the chops for it.

All this said I actually liked the Last Jedi and I can't wait to watch it when it hits Netflix later this month.

 

[Die4Cy]

I agree with you but for different reasons. Marvel has it going really well now because they can do some different genres in between movies. Ant-Man was a weird little heist movie. Ragnarok was a classic 80s action comedy. Dr. Strange was a weird magic movie. Black Panther was a race politics ode to an Africa we would all like to see exist.

Solo (and I haven't seen it yet) should be a fun heist movie. It should be Ocean's 11 in space with some good characters we all know and like. Since the success of Rogue One, it seems like everybody wants to make the same overarching space opera. There is absolutely no room to breathe. I do think there is some Star Wars fatigue because each movie is exactly the same.

Here is why I think they need to take the reigns from Kathleen Kennedy and give them to Dave Filoni. I think Kathy has given us two really fun characters in Rey and Finn. They are great. Everybody else in the new movies is either a holdover from previous installments or just ripped straight from the old EU (Ben Solo). The problem is that they have given them nothing to do. Finn went on the ridiculous Canto Bight quest, and Rey had the shortest Jedi training ever. Their time was a waste of a movie.

Filoni did several things I think are better than what we've seen from the new trilogy so far - He gave us the Anakin we should have seen in the prequels in the Clone Wars, and he created a new small ship and crew that were absolutely charming with new characters. He's done the mystical side of star wars. He's given us Ahsoka and Hera, two of the best female characters in pop fiction bar none.

I just think for all of Kathy's "Let the past die" stuff, (which I am in 100% favor of by the way) she can't let it go. I think she's out of ideas. I think with the new way movies are produced, you need a TV guy at the head as well. He should be steering the ship right now and I think he has the chops for it.

All this said I actually liked the Last Jedi and I can't wait to watch it when it hits Netflix later this month.

What did they pay for the franchise? A couple billion? And they are basically turning Universal Studios into a Star Wars theme park. They are simply not going to take interesting risks with the story telling until they get a significant return on the investment. Kennedy might have the best of intentions, but if you look at what we've gotten so far with disappointment--in particular the sequel trilogy, this is a big contributor.

 

[Bader]

and Rey had the shortest Jedi training ever.

You think Rey's time on Ahch-To is less than Luke's time on Dagobah (screen time or assumed time passing in the background)? Those training sequences paralleled each other a lot

 

[BryceC]

What did they pay for the franchise? A couple billion? And they are basically turning Universal Studios into a Star Wars theme park. They are simply not going to take interesting risks with the story telling until they get a significant return on the investment. Kennedy might have the best of intentions, but if you look at what we've gotten so far with disappointment--in particular the sequel trilogy, this is a big contributor.

4 billion and they’ve already made that back.

I will agree with the sentiment that you should find someone who loves you as much as Star Wars fans hate Star Wars.

 

[BryceC]

You think Rey's time on Ahch-To is less than Luke's time on Dagobah (screen time or assumed time passing in the background)? Those training sequences paralleled each other a lot

I think it’s less total time but time is hard to track in TLJ.

 

[State43]

That might be generally true. The facts, as you present them, support that theory.

But in my specific case, it was definitely not true. Solo is the first Star Wars film, since the original, that I have not watched in the theatre. (I was 4 years old in 1977.)

I love Star Wars and I adore Donald Glover. But TLJ completely ruined it for me. I'll be waiting for video or cable for this one.

Same for me.

I was thinking for a minute I was one of the only people who liked Solo. I loved TFA and Rogue One, liked Solo, and hated TLJ. I thought everything Disney has done to revive the Star Wars brand has been successful but they burned some bridges in TLJ that JJ Abrams made in TFA (thanks Rian Johnson..).

I am the same way but have not seen Solo yet. I will wait until red box out of principle.

You think Rey's time on Ahch-To is less than Luke's time on Dagobah (screen time or assumed time passing in the background)? Those training sequences paralleled each other a lot

What training? Ray didn't do anything, she was just swinging it around on her own for what, a few weeks at most? It was implied that Luke was training with Yoda for a couple years. Too bad he didn't have all that jedi ability just come to him for no reason...

 

[Bader]

I think it’s less total time but time is hard to track in TLJ.

Time is even harder to track in ESB. There is exactly 1 visible day/night cycle; when Han and Luke sleep in the snow goat. I don't know how you can argue Rey's training was shorter, let alone short enough to be "shortest, training, evar"

 

[Bader]

What training? Luke didn't do anything, she was just swinging it around on her own for what, a few weeks at most? It was implied that Luke was training with Yoda for a couple years. Too bad he didn't have all that jedi ability just come to him for no reason...

How the **** was Luke on Dagobah for years? He and the Falcon leave Hoth at the same moment. He jumps to hyperspace while the Falcon is chased through an asteroid field in the Hoth system, and then they jump to Bespin. They're in Cloud City for literally minutes before being captured.

He did have "all that" Jedi ability come to him without any training. He used the Force to guide two torpedoes down an exhaust port. The only lightsaber training he's given in any movie is with a training droid on the Falcon, unless there's (gasp) off screen training Yoda gives him on Dagobah

 

[SCNCY]

I think it’s less total time but time is hard to track in TLJ.

I think in the movie, they said they were going to run out of fuel in 16 hours. So, I think from when The force Awakens ends, to the beginning of The Last Jedi, that is maybe a days or so time in between. The First order knew where the Resistance base was, so I assume it was a rush to move on to another location, hence about a days time in between both movies.

In any case, the timeline in the current trilogy has been probably only a couple days, maybe no more than a week.

 

[SCNCY]

Time is even harder to track in ESB. There is exactly 1 visible day/night cycle; when Han and Luke sleep in the snow goat. I don't know how you can argue Rey's training was shorter, let alone short enough to be "shortest, training, evar"

While you may not actually see it in the movie, I think the star wars story group, or someone, has said the empire strikes back lasts a couple weeks. While you do not see the sun go up or down, its assume that Han and Leia were being chased by the empire for a while.

The problem in the Last Jedi is that it is stated that the ship is going to run out of fuel in 16 or so hours, giving you set time. The only thing that could change the timeline in the Last Jedi is if there is more time between The Force Awakens and the Last Jedi so Rey is on the planet for a little longer.

 

[Bader]

While you may not actually see it in the movie, I think the star wars story group, or someone, has said the empire strikes back lasts a couple weeks. While you do not see the sun go up or down, its assume that Han and Leia were being chased by the empire for a while.

The problem in the Last Jedi is that it is stated that the ship is going to run out of fuel in 16 or so hours, giving you set time. The only thing that could change the timeline in the Last Jedi is if there is more time between The Force Awakens and the Last Jedi so Rey is on the planet for a little longer.

The only way they could be chased for any extended period of time is if they were in the space slug for hours, and then they hid on the Star Destroyer for hours. The best you're going to get out of that is a day.

Yes, it was dumb of them to put time constraints on the chase, but if you accept time doesn't make sense in the ESB I have no idea how you can blast TLJ for it. Other than you saw ESB as a child and didn't care, have accepted fan-fic or canon post explanation, or are determined to hate TLJ.

 

[State43]

How the **** was Luke on Dagobah for years? He and the Falcon leave Hoth at the same moment. He jumps to hyperspace while the Falcon is chased through an asteroid field in the Hoth system, and then they jump to Bespin. They're in Cloud City for literally minutes before being captured.

He did have "all that" Jedi ability come to him without any training. He used the Force to guide two torpedoes down an exhaust port. The only lightsaber training he's given in any movie is with a training droid on the Falcon, unless there's (gasp) off screen training Yoda gives him on Dagobah

You are right, not sure where I got the 2 years from. I pulled this from a guy in reddit which makes sense.

Let's look at it this way.

Luke learns the basics of the Force in ANH with Obi-Wan. He understands he has to trust his instinct and that he coexists with the force. During this time period, he also understands that he can bend the force to his will AKA pulling your lightsaber toward you (ESB). He also probably trains a bit to be comfortable with the balance of a lightsaber. But Luke's been stuck in the war, so his training didn't go much further.

Three years later, Luke is sent to Dagobah to train with the most wise and powerful Jedi there was with 900 years of experience. Yoda, the man, has had 22 years to make the most badass teaching program about the Force and the Jedi. So imagine, receiving that kind of training, 12-14 hours a day for a week. Luke's been practicing the basics for three years in ESB. Now he is receiving the master class with all the secrets in a couple of days. After that, it's only a matter of mastering himself and the Force.

Things is, Yoda clearly states that Luke's training is incomplete when he goes to face Vader in ESB. And you can see that during their duel, Vader is toying with Luke to show him how the dark side has made him powerful.

After that, Luke has a full year to go to Obi-Wan's house, find his book about the building of a lightsaber and keep on developing his Force muscle. He doesn't need to learn much more, he needs to master these things.

So while it is unconventional, Luke's training consist of:

19 years of life experience developing good and bad traits

3 years of basic jedi training, understanding of the Force and fighting in an intergalactic conflict

1 week of the most complete master class about the Jedi and the secrets of the Force

1 duel with the Dark Lord of the Sith where he probably learned more about himself, the dark side, his fears and hatred than he would have with 5 years of theories in the Jedi Temple

1 year of training alone and building his own lightsaber.

Anakin became a Jedi Knight after about 10 years as a padawan. Luke's connection with the force is really strong too. So I think it is not too farfetched to think that his training has a Jedi was not just about his week with Yoda.

And lets not forget, even after training with yoda, he got his hand cut off. Even after training in the force after that, Sidious still would have smoked him. He didn't just find the power to win out of thin air.
As for the missles, you forget Obi-Wan as a force ghost helping guide him through it? How much influence he had is debate-able but there is a difference.

 

[NorthCyd]

The biggest blunder that was made with Solo was insisting on keeping it in May. This magnified several of the issues the movie already had.

It didn't allow for a normal advertising cycle due to the prolonged production of the movie and it was too close to TLJ. Casual fans are already confused by the standalone films and that made it even more confusing. "Another one already? I thought Han Solo was dead? Is that his son?" It also didn't give any time for some the diehards that were seriously pissed about TLJ to calm down some. Add on that memorial day has not been particularly good for box office overall and they were asking for disaster.

Why did Disney refuse to move it? Supposedly they did not want to interfere with Mary Poppins Returns. WTF?!

 

[HFCS]

The biggest blunder that was made with Solo was insisting on keeping it in May. This magnified several of the issues the movie already had.

It didn't allow for a normal advertising cycle due to the prolonged production of the movie and it was too close to TLJ. Casual fans are already confused by the standalone films and that made it even more confusing. "Another one already? I thought Han Solo was dead? Is that his son?" It also didn't give any time for some the diehards that were seriously pissed about TLJ to calm down some. Add on that memorial day has not been particularly good for box office overall and they were asking for disaster.

Why did Disney refuse to move it? Supposedly they did not want to interfere with Mary Poppins Returns. WTF?!

I design licensed toys for movies. Sometimes you're working on a property for years before release, other times you can't believe the film is almost out. Solo was one where I'd be working on something this fall or winter and think "whoa this is a May movie???". I remember when I heard rumors they might move it back and thinking "of course they should".

 

[Triggermv]

The biggest blunder that was made with Solo was insisting on keeping it in May. This magnified several of the issues the movie already had.

It didn't allow for a normal advertising cycle due to the prolonged production of the movie and it was too close to TLJ. Casual fans are already confused by the standalone films and that made it even more confusing. "Another one already? I thought Han Solo was dead? Is that his son?" It also didn't give any time for some the diehards that were seriously pissed about TLJ to calm down some. Add on that memorial day has not been particularly good for box office overall and they were asking for disaster.

Why did Disney refuse to move it? Supposedly they did not want to interfere with Mary Poppins Returns. WTF?!

I truly think they did it solely to avoid Marry Poppins, which was such a stupid stupid stupid idea. Star Wars kills it in December for a lot of reasons and should solely stick there for pretty much all future movies. I'm also of the opinion that Star Wars wouldn't have much effect on Mary Poppins anyway being there.

 

[CYCLNST8]

The biggest blunder that was made with Solo was insisting on keeping it in May. It didn't give any time for some the diehards that were seriously pissed about TLJ to calm down some.

****ing up Luke Skywalker was unforgivable. That anger isn't going to go away. You bring him back after three decades just to turn him into a grumpy ***** hermit who dies performing a magic trick?? People are upset about Solo as well, but at least he got to be in some action sequences. Just give Luke ONE scene where he ignites his green saber and gets to be a badass for 60 seconds and people would have been jumping out of their chairs. I just can't wrap my mind around that blown opportunity. No one at Disney had the balls to say, "Um, Rian- your Luke Skywalker story really sucks. A lot of your other story elements are **** as well. Try again."

The passage of time comparison between Empire and TLJ is a moot point. It's Rey's complete lack of training that's the issue. We're just supposed to accept the fact that she's a God. Shallow. She's already better than Kylo. Snoke is dead. Hux is Elmer Fudd. Where's the danger? Where's the risk? Why can't people see how stupid this is???