***Official Big 12 Expansion Thread '16***

[cyclones500]

As much as I want the CU, CSU, UA and ASU rumor to be true, just don't believe that teams are walking away from the Pac12.

That said if those 3 are thinking it, you have to flirt with UCLA and one of the other California teams.

Yep, if you're shooting for the moon, get UCLA and either UA/ASU. Pull that off, and the networks' push-back all but disappears. At that point, add someone near WVa and one other east-ish school, it may not even matter as much who at that point. (Or leave WVU/Cincy as the island, and still add BYU).

 

[Boxerdaddy]

No. They can thank PSU and ND fans for those 2 well-attended games

Because opponent has zero effect on attendance in the Big12... To me that shows fans will show up for big name opponents. Probably not Kansas. But Texas and Oklahoma would pull some good numbers and given the right environment, pull in a lot of bandwagon fans. Just saying if you're considering Houston, Temple should at least make the conversation.

 

[Judoka]

Came across this today and hadn't really considered them, but Temple makes an interesting prospect. Not your traditional powerhouse but they have been trending upwards in recent years.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...illing_to_talk_to_Big_12_about_expansion.html


Thoughts?

38K + enrollment (would be 2nd largest in Big12)
4th largest TV market
Play FB at Lincoln Financial
Last years avg attendance = 41,551 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Temple_Owls_football_team)
-Notable
W vs Penn State 69,176
L vs Notre Dame 69,280

Academic Rankings
#115 Overall according to US News & World Report (ISU is #108)

If you take those two games, which presumably were almost all Penn State and Notre Dame fans, out of their average that gives an average of 27,719 attendance for their other four games. That's pretty bad.

 

[Boxerdaddy]

If you take those two games, which presumably were almost all Penn State and Notre Dame fans, out of their average that gives an average of 27,719 attendance for their other four games. That's pretty bad.

I don't believe your presumptions are correct, at least according to this article. And if you take out those two you get 30,481. Not great again, but look at their opponents. Houston's last year attendance avg was 33,980 with a 40k capacity...so no room to sell more when Texas and Oklahoma come in. Just saying...if you're looking Houston and not enthused about another Texas School, I think Temple is in the convo.

 

[Judoka]

I don't believe your presumptions are correct, at least according to this article. And if you take out those two you get 30,481. Not great again, but look at their opponents. Houston's last year attendance avg was 33,980 with a 40k capacity...so no room to sell more when Texas and Oklahoma come in. Just saying...if you're looking Houston and not enthused about another Texas School, I think Temple is in the convo.

They had 6 home games.

41,555 * 6 = 249,330

Take out those two games

249,330- (69,176+69,280) = 110,874

So 110,874 people attended their other four games.

110,874/4 = 27,718.5

 

[boone7247]

They had 6 home games.

41,555 * 6 = 249,330

Take out those two games

249,330- (69,176+69,280) = 110,874

So 110,874 people attended their other four games.

110,874/4 = 27,718.5

I agree with your math above, but I don't htink that 41,555 is coming from the wiki page that was linked. If you take the wiki page you get the following.

Total attendance = 264,951
Avg Attendance = 44,158
Attendance without outliers
264951-(69176+69280) = 126495
126495/4 = 31624

Not sure which is right, the avg of 41,555 or 44,158. Wiki probably can't be trusted.

At any rate, I doubt Temple is in the mix now that the B12 is blowing up the Pac12.....where is that sarcasm pirate? so people don't take this comment seriously.

 

[Boxerdaddy]

I agree with your math above, but I don't htink that 41,555 is coming from the wiki page that was linked. If you take the wiki page you get the following.

Total attendance = 264,951
Avg Attendance = 44,158
Attendance without outliers
264951-(69176+69280) = 126495
126495/4 = 31624

Not sure which is right, the avg of 41,555 or 44,158. Wiki probably can't be trusted.

At any rate, I doubt Temple is in the mix now that the B12 is blowing up the Pac12.....where is that sarcasm pirate? so people don't take this comment seriously.

Apologies Judoka, I didn't notice that the data i had included their bowl game against Toledo (25,908 so it actually brought down the numbers) so that skewed everything. Boone's numbers are correct.
Your point is still valid that 31k isn't doing much, but I see greater potential there (Lincoln Financial Field cap is 69,176) than in say Houston who caps out at 40k. Both Houston and Philly are close in market size, with Philly edging out Houston by around 200k from the numbers that i saw. All i'm saying is that they should be looked at if TV market size matters and the fact that they filled the stadium for Notre Dame and Penn State, to me means that they are at least pulling some casual fans from that large market. (I do realize those two teams are located closer than the B12 so who knows if they would pull close to that for a game against Texas) It's at least another option for those on the "we don't need another Texas School" bandwagon.

 

[CYCLNST8]

Apologies Judoka, I didn't notice that the data i had included their bowl game against Toledo (25,908 so it actually brought down the numbers) so that skewed everything. Boone's numbers are correct.
Your point is still valid that 31k isn't doing much, but I see greater potential there (Lincoln Financial Field cap is 69,176) than in say Houston who caps out at 40k. Both Houston and Philly are close in market size, with Philly edging out Houston by around 200k from the numbers that i saw. All i'm saying is that they should be looked at if TV market size matters and the fact that they filled the stadium for Notre Dame and Penn State, to me means that they are at least pulling some casual fans from that large market. (I do realize those two teams are located closer than the B12 so who knows if they would pull close to that for a game against Texas) It's at least another option for those on the "we don't need another Texas School" bandwagon.

I was on the we don't need another Texas School bandwagon until Texa$ & Tech threw their support behind Houston. Strike while the iron is hot. Their ceiling is frighteningly high, actually. With Power 5 support, they could evolve into a juggernaut along the lines of Miami in their prime. TDECU Stadium was built with an expansion to 60,000 in mind.

Memphis is in a similar position with FedEx's financial backing. I have a hard time seeing that happening at Temple. Enthusiasm for college football isn't nearly as high in the northeast.

 

[Boxerdaddy]

I was on the we don't need another Texas School bandwagon until Texa$ & Tech threw their support behind Houston. Strike while the iron is hot. Their ceiling is frighteningly high, actually. With Power 5 support, they could evolve into a juggernaut along the lines of Miami in their prime. TDECU Stadium was built with an expansion to 60,000 in mind.

Memphis is in a similar position with FedEx's financial backing. I have a hard time seeing that happening at Temple. Enthusiasm for college football isn't nearly as high in the northeast.

I agree about the interest in football in the NE, however, Philly is a huge market. That has to count for something. And they did fill up that place when marquee teams visited...

Thanks for the info on TDECU, I figured in Texas and with the success of Houston, they'd already be looking to expand that stadium, but didn't know that was built in to its design.

 

[boone7247]

I was on the we don't need another Texas School bandwagon until Texa$ & Tech threw their support behind Houston. Strike while the iron is hot. Their ceiling is frighteningly high, actually. With Power 5 support, they could evolve into a juggernaut along the lines of Miami in their prime. TDECU Stadium was built with an expansion to 60,000 in mind.

Memphis is in a similar position with FedEx's financial backing. I have a hard time seeing that happening at Temple. Enthusiasm for college football isn't nearly as high in the northeast.

This is a good argument for Houston.

I will make one against.

Texas carries that market already. Why bring more power 5 completion to Texas?

I agree Temple does nothing right now for the B12, but if there is a network in the works it would certainly help then. Although I think the B12 is better off without a network and finding alternative ways to share content. Twitter, Facebook, YouTube and stuff we don't know yet are the future of how people will consume content.

 

[isucy86]

Yep, if you're shooting for the moon, get UCLA and either UA/ASU. Pull that off, and the networks' push-back all but disappears. At that point, add someone near WVa and one other east-ish school, it may not even matter as much who at that point. (Or leave WVU/Cincy as the island, and still add BYU).

I am a big fan of a Pac12/Big12 merger as I think it could be an elite conference. I think the quality of FB could be right behind the SEC. However, I don't think it happens until 2024ish. The good thing is FOX has the Pac12 TV Network and major player with existing Big12 contract.

That said, I don't think the Arizona schools or Colorado create enough revenue to keep the Big12 close to the Big10 & SEC TV revenue. IMO any merger would need to include USC, UCLA, Cal and Stanford. A conference with Texas and California at its core would be a juggernaut. I also feel having Pac12 teams play half their games in the Central time zone enhances their TV value vs, the existing Pac12 Network.

That said, no way does a 22 team league maximize per school revenue. IMO a meged Pac12/Big12 would have 16 teams.

 

[Gorm]

Pick off 6 teams like the PAC-12 tried to do to us. Only one school leaving would really get hit with the GOR agreements. All others leaving can claim that the conference was no longer what they signed up for and were fending for themselves.

 

[HoopsTournament]

Pick off 6 teams like the PAC-12 tried to do to us. Only one school leaving would really get hit with the GOR agreements. All others leaving can claim that the conference was no longer what they signed up for and were fending for themselves.

Love that idea. Might be only shot to challenge GOR. If they did that, I would go after:

Arizona State
USC
Utah
Stanford
Oregon
Washington

Those are the best football schools in each state/region.

 

[jdoggivjc]

Assuming Pac 12 schools are on the table (and I'm nowhere close to being ready to go there yet), if it were to only end up being Arizona and Arizona St, I would think New Mexico could end up being on the table.

 

[IASTATE07]

New Mexico is not on the table in any scenario.

 

[SNEDDS3]

My one and only thought on the PAC12....If they are breaking up I'll take USC, UCLA and Oregon...maybe Arizona. Just saying, I mean if AZ and AZ st are leaving what does that mean for the conference? (CU doesnt really count in anything)

I'll sit back and listen.

 

[cyclones500]

New Mexico is not on the table in any scenario

It hasn't shown up on any "could-be" lists, and for what's going w/ this expansion talk, I'm not surprised. I'm still one of those scattered proponents of keeping UNM in the back of the mind. It's almost like a Tulane of the West wild card.

As jdogg suggests, New Mex would be in play only if there's a little Pac-12-plucking, or minimum BYU, even then only in a move-to-16-teams vision.

 

[drednot57]

If the Big 12 and the Pac 12 merged, one would think WVU would be granted a release from the GOR agreement to seek a new home possibly in the ACC, or even the B1G. Then add five teams to get to 24, two 12 team divisions. I'd add BYU, San Diego State, Colo. St., Houston, and Memphis; all part of the Eastern Division.

 

[timinatoria]

I am a big fan of a Pac12/Big12 merger as I think it could be an elite conference. I think the quality of FB could be right behind the SEC. However, I don't think it happens until 2024ish. The good thing is FOX has the Pac12 TV Network and major player with existing Big12 contract.

That said, I don't think the Arizona schools or Colorado create enough revenue to keep the Big12 close to the Big10 & SEC TV revenue. IMO any merger would need to include USC, UCLA, Cal and Stanford. A conference with Texas and California at its core would be a juggernaut. I also feel having Pac12 teams play half their games in the Central time zone enhances their TV value vs, the existing Pac12 Network.

That said, no way does a 22 team league maximize per school revenue. IMO a meged Pac12/Big12 would have 16 teams.

Can we just stop with this Pac12/Big12 merger nonsense? Come on people......get your s**t together. That is one dumb MF idea that is never happening.

I have an idea, how about the Big 12 merges with the AFC West?

Hear me out :
North -
WVU Mountaineers
ISU Cyclones
Kansas City Cheifs
Kansas Jayhawks
KSU Wildcats
Denver Broncos
Oklahoma Sooners

South -
Oklahome State Cowboys
Texas Longhorns
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Baylor Bears
TCU Horned Frogs
Oakland Raiders
San Diego Chargers

What does everyone think? Good idea? I think the Broncos are due for a slide with a new QB. Maybe a chance for ISU to pick up a few wins before Denver reloads.

Thoughts?

 

[IASTATE07]

Can we just stop with this Pac12/Big12 merger nonsense? Come on people......get your s**t together. That is one dumb MF idea that is never happening.

I have an idea, how about the Big 12 merges with the AFC West?

Hear me out :
North -
WVU Mountaineers
ISU Cyclones
Kansas City Cheifs
Kansas Jayhawks
KSU Wildcats
Denver Broncos
Oklahoma Sooners

South -
Oklahome State Cowboys
Texas Longhorns
Texas Tech Red Raiders
Baylor Bears
TCU Horned Frogs
Oakland Raiders
San Diego Chargers

What does everyone think? Good idea? I think the Broncos are due for a slide with a new QB. Maybe a chance for ISU to pick up a few wins before Denver reloads.

Thoughts?

I like it. There is a better chance of this happening than a scenario with New Mexico.