Harbaugh vs. Norvell

[tec71]

I'm wondering if anyone has any true reasoned analysis on the pros and cons of each of these. I'm not looking for rumors or otherwise. I trust Jeremy and his sources to provide me with the behind the scenes stuff, not the radio.

What I'm wondering is if anyone out there is interested in engaging in a solid fact based discussion about who's a better candidate (and why). I limit it to these two only because their names seem to come up the most. If all you have to add is "don't hire norvell because your tired of iowa and nebraska connections" then we'll just ignore you. I would say that such reasoning is idiotic but to say that would qualify it as reasoning, which it really isn't.

So a few easy starters but what I'm really interested in are insights into their backgrounds or abilities.

Thoughts?

 

[dccyclone25]

Harbaugh's pros:

-His dad said he would be a coach some day
-He played for some great coaches

Norvell's pros:

-Lots of coaching experience

 

[CY ST8T]

Harbaugh
PIONEER LEAGUE FOOTBALL - NON SCHOLARSHIP

Norvell
Big XII, Big Ten and Professional Coaching Experience

This is like taking an accountant with experience at 3 major CPA firms for the last 12 years and putting him against a guy who finished top in his class at a community college in a pip squeak town in Arkansas getting his Accounting Specialist degree.

 

[dccyclone25]

This is like taking an accountant with experience at 3 major CPA firms for the last 12 years and putting him against a guy who finished top in his class at a community college in a pip squeak town in Arkansas getting his Accounting Specialist degree.

Well said.

 

[chuckd4735]

Harbaugh

3 year starter at Michigan under Bo Schembechler
15 years in the NFL with 5 different teams
3 years at the University of San Diego

Norvell-

Playing Experience: 1982-85, Iowa; 1987, Chicago Bears​

Coaching Experience: 1986-87, Iowa (graduate assistant); 1988, Northern Iowa (assistant coach/receivers); 1989-94, Wisconsin (assistant coach/receivers/special teams); 1995-97, Iowa State (assistant head coach/quarterbacks/receivers); 1998-2001, Indianapolis Colts (assistant coach/wide receivers); 2002, Oklahoma (assistant coach/wide receivers); 2002-2003, Oakland Raiders (assistant coach/tight ends); 2004-present, Nebraska (offensive coordinator/quarterbacks)​

Recruiting Emphasis: Louisiana, Texas (Central, Houston and Dallas)​

 

[BigBake]

Harbaugh

3 year starter at Michigan under Bo Schembechler
15 years in the NFL with 5 different teams
3 years at the University of San Diego

Take off his college/NFL experience and it doesn't leave much. I guess I don't count that for much.

 

[BigBake]

I guess from day 1 I wanted a guy with coaching exp at the big time and Norvell fills that. BCS conf and NFL experience.

For the record I wasn't hip on Brewster. I didn't like the fact he'd ONLY been a tight ends coach.

 

[jose]

One statement people have been making about harbaugh is that he is a risky hire.

Risk Assessment:

Harbaugh
Pros
- Actual head coaching experience (will also be a con)
- Said to be surrounding himself with experienced coaches (shouldnt let him F up coaching to bad and i assume should be good recruiters)
- Name recognition (good possibility of bringing in new donor $'s, season ticket holders and recruits based on name alone excitement generated)
- Turned around USD program (true its a D2 non scholarship but his success is one of the reasons he is being considered)

Cons
- Head coaching experience (only 3 years at a D2 non scholarship program)
- Possibility of jumping ship if he gets the program turned around. (sounds like carr is nearing retirement)
- He operated a vehicle while intoxicated (drank half a beer to much from what i read previously)

Norvell
Pros
- Lots of previous assistant coaching experience (see listed experience posted all over previous threads)
- Wants to be a clone ( risk of jumping ship lower )
- NFL assistant coaching experience

Cons
- No previous head coaching experience
- Not considered "sexy" hire or a coach that would unite the fan base
- Does not handle play calling for nebraska as their o-coordinator
- Read that he has only recruited 4 players? True?

 

[Nedrick]

One statement people have been making about harbaugh is that he is a risky hire.

Risk Assessment:

Harbaugh
Pros
- Actual head coaching experience (will also be a con)
- Said to be surrounding himself with experienced coaches (shouldnt let him F up coaching to bad and i assume should be good recruiters)
- Name recognition (good possibility of bringing in new donor $'s, season ticket holders and recruits based on name alone excitement generated)
- Turned around USD program (true its a D2 non scholarship but his success is one of the reasons he is being considered)

Cons
- Head coaching experience (only 3 years at a D2 non scholarship program)
- Possibility of jumping ship if he gets the program turned around. (sounds like carr is nearing retirement)
- He operated a vehicle while intoxicated (drank half a beer to much from what i read previously)

Norvell
Pros
- Lots of previous assistant coaching experience (see listed experience posted all over previous threads)
- Wants to be a clone ( risk of jumping ship lower )
- NFL assistant coaching experience

Cons
- No previous head coaching experience
- Not considered "sexy" hire or a coach that would unite the fan base
- Does not handle play calling for nebraska as their o-coordinator
- Read that he has only recruited 4 players? True?

Solid analysis. I agree that Norvell's not the sexy hire, but neither was GMac and look how things are looking up in b'ball. I'm going to have to trust JP on this one, because I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around Norvell...

 

[tec71]

Here's the thing about Norvell. He's the easy pic to me. The guy has the pedigree and everything. If he fails, it's easy to say, "well he had everything going for him." Harbaugh is the sexy pick but if he fails, everyone looks at pollard and says "why the hell did you pass on the guy with the pedigree for the guy with no D1 coaching experience?" it's like when you see the NFL draft and you wonder why a team takes a certain player when everyone and their brother thinks another pleyer will ultimately be better, but the first player comes with the pedigree and all the pundents say he should go first etc. Go with the sexy pick and end up being right, and it's a career maker. End up wrong and you end up having the chance to hire that guy again when you are the new AD at SE Missouri state.

THat being said, we've engaged around the office in this discussion about whether ISU needs a coach with a system that's going to be more conducive to winning in the Big 12 when ISU's 1st through 3rd string will probably not be as deep and talented as some of the other conference power teams will be. For that I like Norvell and the west coast offense, although I'm assuming he run that here. I'm also not certain how Meyer or Arnaud fits into that system. Anyone know what Mr. Harbaugh is running out west? OR for that matter does it matter?

 

[PolkCityClone]

I bet some people find GMac sexy.

 

[Wesley]

Well said.

We just had the 12 year accountant as coach.

 

[Wesley]

For that I like Norvell and the west coast offense, although I'm assuming he run that here. I'm also not certain how Meyer or Arnaud fits into that system. Anyone know what Mr. Harbaugh is running out west? OR for that matter does it matter?

He is running Josh Johnson All whatever at qb. Passes for 300 yards a few times. Of course, they have a defense at SDU too.

 

[Wesley]

Solid analysis. I agree that Norvell's not the sexy hire, but neither was GMac and look how things are looking up in b'ball. I'm going to have to trust JP on this one, because I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around Norvell...

Who is the Big 12 sexy hire?
Bill Callahan:no6xn:
Ron Prince
Jay Norvell or Jim Harbaugh.:biggrin9gp:
Gary Stinkel Finkel:nerd6bs:
Dan Hawkins:sad9cd:
Piggo Mangino:growl5cj:
Big Mack Brown
Bobert Stoops
Michael Gundy:eek4wd:
Franchione:rofl8yi:
Mike Reach for Leach
Baylor Morriss :sad9cd:

Tossup between Stoops, Prince, and whomever we might hire if under 50.

 

[seneca4MVP]

Are you guys on something?? Norvell would be the worst hire in ISU history. He has all this experience but yet he doesn't even call the plays for Nebraska. Why is that you think? He was not well liked at all when he was here at all. I have heard horror stories about this guy. Everything JP has spent the time and energy building would get blown out the window if he makes this hire

 

[ISU_Alum_2000]

Why is Norvell not calling the plays? Try this on...

"Hi, Nebraska. I'm your new coach, Bill Callahan. I am going to replace your offensive philosophy that you have used to win multiple National Championships with the West Coast Offense, of which I am an expert. So much of an expert, in fact, that someone else will be calling the plays."

Did that help?

I'm not on a Novell bandwagon, or anything. I just think that calling him "the worst hire in ISU history" because he doesn't call Callahan's plays is a bit silly.

I'm interested though - what are these horror stories?

 

[Stormin]

The fact that Norvell doesn't call plays DIMINISHES his credential as an Offensive Coordinator. Actually makes him more like a "position coach".

If you want to go with "experience" in this instance and are considering Norvell, then I would go with Tim Brewster. Brewster has MORE experience than Norvell. Brewster is a PROVEN recruiter. Brewster has been Assistant Head Coach at the PRO Level. Brewster has served under some excellent Head Coaches. So if the Criteria you are using is "Coaching Experience", then I would take Brewster over Norvell. And for that matter, Kragthorpe, Price, or Kelly.

I've heard Norvell's wife is from Iowa. How are you related to her? Is that why you are lobbying so hard for Norvell?

 

[lbh]

When we hired Mac about the only criticsm I ever heard was " never been a head coach at any level ". You know what that proved to be a huge concern. At least Harbough has been a head coach. To me if he can do it at any college level you can do it @ D1. He has the name recognition right off. Im gonna give him credit that he is smart enough that he has to recruit D1 players not DII.

 

[tec71]

"Norvell would be the worst hire in ISU history." is the type of conclusory statement that ranks right up there with "he's got Iowa and Nebraska connections so we shouldn't hire him" as what this thread was looking to avoid. You make an effort at good analysis at "he doesn't even call the plays for Nebraska" but then fall back into the elementary playground reasoning of "he was not well liked at all." Giving you the chance to actually try to join this thread with some quality thoughts, is it well known that he doesn't call the plays, can we verify that or is it just rampant message board rumors?

The last one I don't know if I can even touch. What's your source for the "fact" that he wasn't well liked? or are you just spouting generalities because he's got Iowa and Nebraska connections and you don't like that?

 

[seneca4MVP]

He doesn't call the plays at Nebraska, that is a fact! And he wasn't liked at Iowa State, that is a fact! He recruited a family member of mine back when he was at Iowa State and I just remember my relatives talking about how he was the worst coach on the staff. Real arrogant and unlike Mac was not very motivational. Now I thought this may just be one group of peoples belief until I talked to some other people in the program who had the same feelings. There is a reason that people in cyclone country are feeling sick to their stomachs at the thought of this guy being the next head coach