Jeff Orr...Super fan?
- Thread starter CySmurf
- Start date
The only sources I've heard of regarding any racial slurs were people who heard Smart himself claiming he was called a n----- immediately after the incident. Just saying what I've heard.
ANYWAY, if your student section could chant for Mr. Not-so-smart, I think it'd be hilarious. I would ask the TCU fans too, but they don't chant, much less show up most of the time.
You need to re-read my original post re ESPN. I said an ESPN reporter said he heard from a t-tech source that a racial slur had been heard, but was quick to add that he didn't know what had been said. The only thing I've changed is that I was "pretty sure" he said a t-tech source after I was questioned on it by the t-tech fan in this thread, and I am. I also said I hope somebody could link that half hour period after the live broadcast of the Smart apology so we could know for sure. And I have said several times I don't know what was or wasn't said, I just didn't know why some on here are so down on Smart, especially after he gave what seemed to be a sincere apology to Orr, his family, fans, etc. It wasn't the scripted half hearted apology you so often get in these situations. I still don't know for sure what all was said and I don't think any objective person right now can say they do know. Oky State's report has been sent to the Big 12 office. If you want to believe Orr, that's fine, I just don't think his past behavior or juvenile behavior in this fiasco earns him as much cred as some are so quick to give him. And the main reason some on here want to call Smart a liar and a piece of crap is because they say he lacks integrity because he flops. To me, that's laughable.
Fair enough, and I've told you what I heard on ESPN and hopefully somebody with computer skills can link it. I've said several times I don't know what was said, and Oky State isn't saying anything, just sending their report to the Big 12 commissioner. Maybe we'll get the whole truth on this eventually, maybe we won't. And maybe I'm getting to be an old fogee, but I hope our students don't chant something like "piece of crap" over and over again. I've said in another thread I think a flop-o-meter would be in good fun, but no place for fan nastiness toward players imo whether it's in Lubbock or Ames.
Oklahoma State basketball: Marcus Smart has changed compared to last season — and not in a good way | News OK
Smart has been unhinged since well before the Red Raider game. The pressure to win on a tanking team is getting to him, and that isn't pretty sometimes at the end of a humiliating loss.
Smart has been unhinged since well before the Red Raider game. The pressure to win on a tanking team is getting to him, and that isn't pretty sometimes at the end of a humiliating loss.
Well what gets me is that you are totally willing to to believe Orr solely due to a video that in no way could pick up everything that was said by Orr. Were you able to hear what Smart said? Are you absolutely sure that the only thing Orr said was 'a piece of crap'? It's been reported that another TTech fan told ESPN that a slur was used. Hmmmmm...
Do you think Orr would admit to using a slur if it wasn't captured on video? Of course not. I am not going to condone smart's actions, but Orr instigated the entire situation.
You're implying that Smart is 'playing the race card' because of some incomplete video. WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH AUDIO EVIDENCE TO SAY EITHER WAY.
Well, hell, you're just playing 'denial card' - that is all there is to it.
I don't know of any evidence yet produced to suggest the guy made a racist statement. What evidence has been produced is fairly exculpatory.
There isn't any denial about it. People have been breaking that thing down like the Zapruder movie for 2 1/2 days. Interviews were done. Whatever Smart thought he heard, he didn't hear, unless there is a massive conspiracy by dozens of people to protect Jeff Orr. Think about it.
There isn't any denial about it. People have been breaking that thing down like the Zapruder movie for 2 1/2 days. Interviews were done. Whatever Smart thought he heard, he didn't hear, unless there is a massive conspiracy by dozens of people to protect Jeff Orr. Think about it.
I get some of what he's saying. Smart is frustrated with good reason. High expectations for the Cowboys took a hit with the loss of a couple of their players, one a key starter. He's also dealt with injury and hasn't played as well, and they're in the middle of a tailspin. But the kid gave up megabucks he could have taken last year to come back to play another year for the cowboys at a time most players would have jumped, so the writer might give him a little credit for that. I've never said his frustration justified what Smart did, he reacted in a bad way, but he's apologized and is paying the price. But given the volatile situation that he didn't create, it isn't hard to see how it happened.
We're not going to get any evidence that 100% proves either side. Like I noted in a earlier post, we know only a few things for sure. You can't say that Smart didn't hear what he heard. The existing audio says only 'piece of crap.' We cannot say for sure that Orr didn't use a slur. It's pretty simple.
I think you're right. T-Tech badly wants this to go away asap with good reason, and so would their fans. The last thing they wanted to report is that one of their boosters and publicly promoted "super fan" called a player a racist name, which would be a p.r. nightmare and could hurt recruiting. The Big 12 also won't want to make a big deal of this with the potential of hurting one of their members. I'm not saying a racial slur was or wasn't used, but I doubt the public will ever know.
We do know there was no racial slur. They interviewed surrounding people including employees who wouldn't want to lose their jobs for lying. Nobody (including the black fan directly behind Jeff) heard a racial slur. Seeing as anything short of mic'ing up the fans can't prove what a fan said, this is as close to 100% sure as you are going to get.
You may be right, but I'm assuming you're getting your info from the university's investigation. You have to admit that it would be a nightmare for the university to report that their proclaimed "super fan" called a player a racist name. As I said, it would be a p.r. disaster and likely hurt recruiting, even though it may be wrong to blame the entire university for what their super fan said. But I think you know how it would have been played around the country and perceived by a lot of athletes, prospective or otherwise. The press release that was put out sounded very much like a carefully crafted statement by a lawyer or university officials, and I don't know that to be a fact, but it sounded very professional, unlike Smart's somewhat long and rambling apology that was done in front of the cameras. And I'm going to guess that the Tech fans sitting that close to the floor are sizable boosters or friends of boosters, and likely acquainted with Orr. They may not have volunteered everything they heard because they wanted to protect Orr and more likely their university. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it is certainly plausible as you have to admit that the university reporting that a racial slur was used would put them in a horrible situation.
Which is worse? Having your "superfan" labeled as a racist or covering it up only to have one of the surrounding fans to come out later and say he did drop an N-bomb? Covering it up is always worse.
It would be idiocy to cover it up when so many people were in the immediate area and know the truth.
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I agree, the cover up is worse, but it hasn't ever stopped people or institutions from doing it. And it wouldn't be the first time a university has tried to brush something under the rug for one of its boosters, some say we probably did it ourselves for one of our big boosters in an incident with Bill Self. And there's also the possibility that the avid tech fans around Orr wouldn't tell all they heard to protect their university and/or Orr. Again, I'm not saying it did or didn't happen, I really don't know. You sound like a sincere guy and a good guy, and if I was a t-tech fan I would want to believe my university officials too. They may be absolutely right or believe they are right that nothing racial was said. Smart may be right that he heard the racial slur, or he may believe he heard it. As I said, it's in the best interest of T-Tech and to a lesser extent the big 12 to move this along quickly and quietly, and I expect that will happen.
CYKOFANYou seem to continue to say there was a cover-up by TT and the people around the stupid fan.Until there is proof of a slur then we have to go by the information we do have. And listening to the players apology he seemed very sincere and IMO if a slur had been used he would not have been so sincere. As to the incident with Coach Self, there was no cover-up, a fan said somthing the coach felt was out of line and he was removed from the game area.
Now don't go getting all logical. TTU can cover it up for ever and have weighed the options and did so. In fact, I think the eliminated everyone within ear shot. Have you seen any of the witnesses since the incident?
Here's my mindset: If Orr used a racial slur, it wasn't picked up by the camera. The camera was approximately as far away as Smart was when he started to react to what was said on the floor, so if he could hear it, why couldn't it be heard at the camera? His reaction dovetails almost perfectly with "Piece of Crap", so I think it's reasonable to assume that he reacted to that.
As far as his flopping goes, I don't think he's a bad person because of that, but what is flopping? To me, it's trying to convince people that something that didn't happen actually happened in order to benefit. I could see him panicking and making that charge once he realized that he went nuts over a run-of-the mill slur, not a racial one.
"Occam's Razor" is my usual mantra: Which is easier to believe? That a kid lashed out in frustration and then panicked and played the race card to justify his actions, or that a school orchestrated a cover-up to protect their "superfan" who happens to work a day job as an air traffic controller (not much donor cash coming in from an air traffic controller, IMHO)? And if you believe that this was a cover up, how do you explain the black woman sitting directly behind Orr during the incident? Maybe you could convince me that she would lie to cover it up and benefit the university, but what about her facial expression? I would think that a black person who just heard a fat redneck drop an N-bomb couldn't help looking at him with contempt. I didn't see that on the original view of the crowd.
Is Jeff Orr a fat idiot? Sure, why not? But I'm not going to mau-mau him for being a racist unless I see one hell of lot more evidence than I've seen so far. I still think racism is a serious thing, and I don't like the charge being thrown about lightly.
