Lebron No
Danny Green, Gary Neal Yes.
was referring to MJ's 3 point shooting in that game when mentioning Neal and Green
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NBA: Should LeBron James be compared to Michael Jordan?
- Thread starter Clones21
- Start date
Lebron No
Danny Green, Gary Neal Yes.
was referring to MJ's 3 point shooting in that game when mentioning Neal and Green
LeBron could get decently close. He could be in the discussion. But he values team basketball more and being an efficient player. Which one is right? Neither is wrong IMO. LeBron is twice the passer MJ was, so he relies on it more. They both played to their strengths. LeBron could probably score more if that was his focus just as MJ could have passed more if that was his focus. Either way, their stats for scoring and assists are at worst even, and at best James has a slight edge.
I'm not saying LBJ isn't at fault and the strategy wasn't stupid in hindsight, but the teams he put together have more championships than the teams MJ put together with the Bobcats/Wizards! (sorry)
It is almost like the more shots you are forced to/you decide to take, the more points you score.....
You guys are really getting me going I like it. I might be going past devils advocate though haha.
Don't worry I'm now done with this thread because to be frank it's a laughable topic.
You are just bad at debating. This is an easy argument for you to win and you haven't made one solid argument.
1. There is no argument, MJ>LBJ
2. Really, that's the WORST argument I could make?
Is there a reason that people who believe MJ is the greatest player of all time don't compare him to anybody, and people who think LBJ is/is going to be the greatest player of all time compare him to MJ?
Because Jordan came first and his career is over. That is why. And tons of old timers think Chamberlain was better than MJ.
People say there is no argument all the time, but I just showed that there is a pretty decent argument. Stats are at worst equal, it's obvious MJ had the better coach and the better teammates to surround him to form a championship team, and MJ had less pressure.And LeBron will play longer. Those all put together are decent arguments to say that there should be a conversation about whether at the end of his career LeBron could have a career that was as good as Jordans.
The worst argument you could make is not making one, and simply stating an opinion as fact. Which is exactly what you are doing. If it is so obvious, throw some compelling stuff out there that I can't deny. I am both an LBJ fan and an MJ fan. MJ has been deified, remove that and have a rational discussion.
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3 words: Mental toughness, killer instinct, heart. Lebron has none. When we get past that hurdle we can move on to actually comparing their basketball skills, which is an even easier argument.
Now don't get me wrong i 100% agree with you, but he deserves this deification. He's done his job. I was fortunate enough to watch both players (and I think LeBron will finish as the 2nd best, which is still incredible). I can tell you that MJ and LeBron might have the same numbers, but they don't have the same competitive angry fire. MJ had it, and he mastered it. I thought I saw LeBron had it when he got called for a foul in the Indiana series. He looked ready to takeover when he got called for another foul and fouled out of the game. MJ was never surrounded by any serious "controversy" if you will. Like when LBJ and Wade poked fun of Dirk's cold in the 2011 Finals, or yanno, the switching of teams from the Cavs to the Heat. MJ built the Bulls around him, and LeBron had to go find an already successful franchise to win not 5, not 6, not 7 championships. It's more than just the stats. It's about off the court, and that's why MJ deserves the deity status.
I think you are right that that is their biggest separator. Their mind set. If LeBron gets the ball at the end of the game he want to create the best possible shot, whether it is him shooting or a sniper from the corner shooting. This has bit him in the *** so many times. If there was one thing I would change about him it would be to make him more assertive and to drive to the basketball at all times like he did earlier this season in his insane stretch.
I can't say he has no heart. I think in his early attempts to get a ring he was under more pressure than basically any athlete had ever been under, and when he failed vs the Celtics it all just unraveled. Jordan never had to deal with anything like that. He was just another guy before he starting winning his championships. LeBron was expected to be the next Jordan.
I don't buy the killer instinct thing. I think LeBron is plenty clutch when he takes shots in the final minute and seconds. I think he is great at creating plays under pressure, I just think his mind set is to get the best shot, not to get the best shot for himself. Many will say that is him being afraid, but you could easily say it is just being smart and unselfish.
here's the deal.
LeBron has never had a man in his life to guide him. His mother had to take care of him.
Michael Jordan always had great support throughout his life, had Dean Smith even at North Carolina to guide him through his college years.
The Greats have something in common, they all had great coaches.Magic, Kareem were under Riley's tutelage. Bird was under Auerbach. Michael Jordan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant and Scottie Pippen played under Phil Jackson. Duncan and Robinson under Poppovich. The list goes on and on.
Who have been LeBron's coaches? Well, you got Mike Brown, who got fired from the Lakers and Cavs. You got Spoelstra, who when he didn't have LeBron, was a loser and couldn't get Wade past the first round.
It's obvious what the common denominator is in LeBron not quite reaching GOAT status, it's that he's never had a coach to lead him to his true potential and to break out of his mental shell.
Can you guys imagine LeBron with Poppovich, Jackson, or even Pat Riley (you can debate whether he's actually coaching the team currently, but that's for another time).
Until LeBron realizes Spoelstra is holding him back, he won't come close to Jordan. If Jordan was coached by such coaching legends as Spoelstra or Mike Brown, who knows if he's even close to making the GOAT list. I bet he wouldn't.
LeBron has never had a man in his life to guide him. His mother had to take care of him.
Michael Jordan always had great support throughout his life, had Dean Smith even at North Carolina to guide him through his college years.
The Greats have something in common, they all had great coaches.Magic, Kareem were under Riley's tutelage. Bird was under Auerbach. Michael Jordan, Shaq, Kobe Bryant and Scottie Pippen played under Phil Jackson. Duncan and Robinson under Poppovich. The list goes on and on.
Who have been LeBron's coaches? Well, you got Mike Brown, who got fired from the Lakers and Cavs. You got Spoelstra, who when he didn't have LeBron, was a loser and couldn't get Wade past the first round.
It's obvious what the common denominator is in LeBron not quite reaching GOAT status, it's that he's never had a coach to lead him to his true potential and to break out of his mental shell.
Can you guys imagine LeBron with Poppovich, Jackson, or even Pat Riley (you can debate whether he's actually coaching the team currently, but that's for another time).
Until LeBron realizes Spoelstra is holding him back, he won't come close to Jordan. If Jordan was coached by such coaching legends as Spoelstra or Mike Brown, who knows if he's even close to making the GOAT list. I bet he wouldn't.
Like I said before, MJ had nowhere near the media scrutiny as he started and by the time it came, he was already a champion 2 or 3 times over.
I agree he ****ed the whole Cleveland thing up. Miami was not a good decision. The team is all wrong for him, and there is not enough money to pay roll players, and there is not enough ball to go around to his two other "star" players so they can be effective. But I can't use that as a slight to him as a player. Media now, and the internet, and everything make it impossible to compare, especially with LBJ having to live his whole life in MJs shadow, when MJ wasn't even a top 2 pick in the draft.
Hell, Jordan retired because he lost his competitive fire. That is a pretty big deal.
Playing devil's advocate or being a closet Heat fan doesn't mean you get to just ignore any argument.
On the most talented team he ever played on, similar or better overall talent to a Bulls title team, LeBron choked on a statistically historic all time level two years ago. You dance around that as if it didn't happen. If we were talking about anything other than GOAT, I'd say who cares he made up for it the next year. When talking about GOAT it's extremely relevant when you tank that bad in a Finals when the standard you're going for never had anything remotely like that.
Winning 6 Championships and 6 Finals MVPS will make anyone lose their competitive fire.
I just don't understand why LeBron wants to try and be like Magic and not like MJ. LeBron seems to be putting distributor first and scorer second right now, and that is NOT the best thing for his team right now. He needs to step up and takeover, which most would argue he tried to do in Game 2 and 3 of these Finals.
I understand that the Media is making it very hard for LeBron, but its his own doing. He brought the attention to himself.
LeBron will have 4+ more years to play (because of not going to college and advances in medical sciences).
The worst part of LeBron's game is the defense (something MJ was amazing at as well). LBJ's defensive is flopping. He flops all the time. MJ probably sits at home and laughs when 6'8" 250 lb LeBron James soars across the floor when he is shoved. MJ would never flop.
Nobody had brought it up! (specifically)
Let's get this clear, I am not a Heat fan. I am an LBJ fan. No closeting there. I follow the Cavs, because I picked LBJ to follow out of high school when I didn't have an NBA team. I stuck with the Cavs and hated LeBron as long as I could, but it didn't stick.
And just because the Heat get paid like stars doesn't mean they are. Wade is no Pippen. Bosh is no Rodman. Neither is as hard working or team oriented as the Bulls counterpart.
And I wouldn't say vs Dallas he completely choked. He had the one bad 8 point game. That is an obvious blemish. Not good at all. But in all the games he played fine with little help from others. If you can point a fault out for LeBron, it is that he passes too much and relies on his teammates to make wide open shots to create an effective offense. Those shots don't fall, he is the bad guy. That's how it goes. You're right that it isn't fair, but it is counted against you when in this discussion.
MJ also never switched teams and had to rebuild chemistry with a bunch of ball dominating idiots who never learned how to play team ball. He had Phil Jackson coaching him and a team he had been developing with for 7-8 years. The Heat simply weren't ready as a team that first year. Some of that is LeBrons fault, especially the whole Miami thing beginning in the first place.
I agree. He needs to step up and attack the basket. Unfortunately they are sagging off of him a ton and his jumper isn't falling. No competitive fire or drive can make a jumper fall. If he can't hit from 15 he is going to have a tough time against a great defensive team like the spurs.
I agree with the flopping being terrible. It truly is. But I understand why he does it. It is impossible for him to get a call without trying to sell it. Does that excuse it? Probably not. But if he thinks it would help his team win he is going to do it and if Jordan was put in a position like that I'm guessing he would.
Flopping aside, LeBron is a better defender than Jordan just due to his athleticism and size. That isn't really a fair comparison.
And I was talking the first retirement, after 3 championships. Jordan deserves no empathy for years missed out on because he quit the game. Twice. If you want to be dramatic about it you could say he quit on his teammates and fans and all that, which would certainly be a very big black mark if LeBron did something like that.
Also, charges nowadays are so ridiculous. The charge culture only encourages flopping and discourages scorers from attacking the basket, lest a scrub role player fall down on purpose and draw a cheap foul. But that is neither here, nor there.
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