***OFFICIAL BIG 12 EXPANSION THREAD 2.0***
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People that stop to think get out-scooped on Twitter. They'll look like fools! Everyone knows that.
Just want to drop in and say that if the devil (ESPN) who college football has pretty much written its life away to wants four 16 team conferences for the playoff, or worse three 20 team conferences, then I hope everyone involved has to sit through 7 pathetic Iowa football games at Kinnick next year - something I would never wish on my worst enemy. I personally will take an increased interest in high school football. There is already an NFL and its not really all that fun.
Big Ten additions seen as potential boosts to UNL, U of I academics - Omaha.com
Guess delaney is selling this expansion on athletics not academics. Not. The football AAU.
Guess delaney is selling this expansion on athletics not academics. Not. The football AAU.
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Given that the college presidents just got done approving a playoff and bowl format that includes access for the Group of Five conferences (Sun Belt, MAC, MWC, Big East, CUSA), I find these comments here and elsewhere very difficult to believe or flat out wrong.
So reading the WV forum, there is a rumor that ESPN is willing to renegotiate the ACC contract if they sign a GOR.
That could put a hold on expansion for quite a while.
That could put a hold on expansion for quite a while.
Teams have to be willing to sign it though. ACC teams have options available right now, which is probably the reason ACC admin want to push a GOR.
Yep I saw that rumor as well. This really is a heavyweight contest with ESPN throwing billions of dollars around like its confetti. I really have to wonder how that will work out for them in 5-10 years. This could just be the last gasp "blow-off" top in the market which is a common way for markets to end many years of expansion.
Anyway, I think that this is the real reason the conferences will go through major turmoil until the 2014 season. Commissioners to discuss 'access' bowl limit and revenue sharing, sources say - ESPN "The biggest difference in the revenue distribution, compared to the current BCS system, is that starting in 2014, five conferences -- the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC -- will receive the biggest slices of the revenue. In the current BCS system, the six automatic qualifying BCS leagues, those five plus the Big East, received the lion's share of the revenue.
The commissioners reached that decision based on several factors, including the BCS rankings of the conferences since 1998 based on the conference's 2014 membership. For example, the Big 12 gets credit for West Virginia and TCU's past BCS rankings, the Big Ten gets credit for Nebraska, the SEC gets credit for Texas A&M and Missouri, the ACC gets credit for Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Pittsburgh and Syracuse, the Pac-12 for Utah and Colorado and the Big East gets credit for Boise State, Houston and UCF. The Mountain West and Conference USA also get credit for their new members.
Using those cumulative rankings, based on 2014 membership, for the top 25 final BCS rankings since 1998, there is a huge disparity between the power five leagues and the Group of Five conferences.
Awarding 25 points for first place, 24 for second, etc., for those annual rankings, the SEC ranks first with 1,054 points, followed by the Big Ten (860), Big 12 (816), ACC (673) and Pac-12 (671). Then there's a huge drop to the Group of Five -- the Big East (240), C-USA (49), MWC (58), Mid-American (21) and Sun Belt (0)."
That was from the ESPN article. Now go threw and start adding subtraction points that an FSU or Clemson or Maryland (probably not many but BiG is safely second already). We also saw today that ESPN is paying what $470 million per year for the playoff. What sounds better to the conferences $470 million / 5 the current alignment or perhaps adding a couple teams to knock the ACC out and split the $470 million / 4 ways. Now, the Big XII looks pretty good but not entirely safe in third. $470 / 4 = $117.5 / 10 teams - $11.75 mil per team plus or minus. If they could add two teams with relatively good football finishes since 1998 like FSU, Clemson, or perhaps Louisville then you boost your standings and only split the proceeds four ways. Therefore I think it really strengthens the conference if BIG and/or SEC take a couple more ACC teams like Va Tech, NC State, or others that have finished in the top 25 in past years.
Anyway, I think that this is the real reason the conferences will go through major turmoil until the 2014 season. Commissioners to discuss 'access' bowl limit and revenue sharing, sources say - ESPN "The biggest difference in the revenue distribution, compared to the current BCS system, is that starting in 2014, five conferences -- the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC -- will receive the biggest slices of the revenue. In the current BCS system, the six automatic qualifying BCS leagues, those five plus the Big East, received the lion's share of the revenue.
The commissioners reached that decision based on several factors, including the BCS rankings of the conferences since 1998 based on the conference's 2014 membership. For example, the Big 12 gets credit for West Virginia and TCU's past BCS rankings, the Big Ten gets credit for Nebraska, the SEC gets credit for Texas A&M and Missouri, the ACC gets credit for Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Pittsburgh and Syracuse, the Pac-12 for Utah and Colorado and the Big East gets credit for Boise State, Houston and UCF. The Mountain West and Conference USA also get credit for their new members.
Using those cumulative rankings, based on 2014 membership, for the top 25 final BCS rankings since 1998, there is a huge disparity between the power five leagues and the Group of Five conferences.
Awarding 25 points for first place, 24 for second, etc., for those annual rankings, the SEC ranks first with 1,054 points, followed by the Big Ten (860), Big 12 (816), ACC (673) and Pac-12 (671). Then there's a huge drop to the Group of Five -- the Big East (240), C-USA (49), MWC (58), Mid-American (21) and Sun Belt (0)."
That was from the ESPN article. Now go threw and start adding subtraction points that an FSU or Clemson or Maryland (probably not many but BiG is safely second already). We also saw today that ESPN is paying what $470 million per year for the playoff. What sounds better to the conferences $470 million / 5 the current alignment or perhaps adding a couple teams to knock the ACC out and split the $470 million / 4 ways. Now, the Big XII looks pretty good but not entirely safe in third. $470 / 4 = $117.5 / 10 teams - $11.75 mil per team plus or minus. If they could add two teams with relatively good football finishes since 1998 like FSU, Clemson, or perhaps Louisville then you boost your standings and only split the proceeds four ways. Therefore I think it really strengthens the conference if BIG and/or SEC take a couple more ACC teams like Va Tech, NC State, or others that have finished in the top 25 in past years.
If we do go to 16 and those are the teams, what they should do is have a revolving western division. Each team in the west plays in the eastern division once every 9 years. You get 8 years in a row in the west so we all keep our ties to the schools we've been together with and then do one year of duty in the east to get to know those teams better and then you're right back in the west for 8 more consecutive years.
keep it at 10 or go to twelve, I really like the round robin call me crazy. The round robin makes this conference a lot more interesting week in and week out.
Ok so I am bored and don't want to be doing the work I should be so I went ahead and ran the totals on most current ACC teams. It was also disheartening to not see ISU once finish in the top 25 
The results are a little surprising
Virginia Tech - 163
Miami (fl) - 131 cough*bunch of cheaters*
Florida State - 121
Georgia Tech - 56
Clemson - 33 (really?)
Virginia - 28
Boston College - 21
Pittsburgh - 20
Maryland - 19
Wake Forest - 12
Syracuse - 11
North Carolina - 0
Duke - 0
North Carolina State - 0
I added Wake, Cuse, and Pitt but I'm about 50 points short so i missed a couple somewhere.
I also ran Louisville just to see
Louisville - 43
So, if Virgina Tech and FSU leave or perhaps Ga Tech and one other team I don't see how ACC could hope to retain that top 5 "elite" conference and the share of playoff money.
The results are a little surprising
Virginia Tech - 163
Miami (fl) - 131 cough*bunch of cheaters*
Florida State - 121
Georgia Tech - 56
Clemson - 33 (really?)
Virginia - 28
Boston College - 21
Pittsburgh - 20
Maryland - 19
Wake Forest - 12
Syracuse - 11
North Carolina - 0
Duke - 0
North Carolina State - 0
I added Wake, Cuse, and Pitt but I'm about 50 points short so i missed a couple somewhere.
I also ran Louisville just to see
Louisville - 43
So, if Virgina Tech and FSU leave or perhaps Ga Tech and one other team I don't see how ACC could hope to retain that top 5 "elite" conference and the share of playoff money.
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he uses google for fan intensity along with the unscientific survey data for geographical range...he admits its a very blunt measurement but the best data available. Georgia tech is grossly over estimated because it attributes the atlanta market to them, when most in atlanta would say that georgia is still the dominate team there. Also, brand value to networks is not equated in this which is valuable tobig 12 since we arent worried about cable subscriptions. Networks dont care about fans as much as is that a team people will watch if there team isnt playing. ISU's stock has certainly risen in this arena since osu..The big flaw in Silver's methodology (using Google search volume as a proxy for the number of football fans in a media market) is that it assumes fans of each football team have equal access to a computer and the internet. If you've ever been to the Florida panhandle, you'd know this was not the case...some of those yokels wouldn't know what a computer was if you dropped it on the hood of their El Camino. Hence why it looks as if FSU has relatively few fans.
Semi-
But even at 16 would the conferences be stable enough to stay together long enough to reach full rotation back and forth?
How do you choose which teams move to the other division because if all teams move to the other division, then you basically just changed division names and not opponents?
For 16 teams, you have to do pods playing 3 games against teams in your pod and playing an entire different pod (pod #2). You would also have a dedicated rival from pod 3 for conference game #8. Conference game #9 will be determined by the standings and will be against someone from pod 4 (all played Thanksgiving weekend). The #1 teams for conference game #9 would be the semifinal game and the winners play for conference championship.
So for example if the following teams joined: Clemson, Florida State, Louisville, GaTech, Cincinnati, Brigham Young
You could have the following pods:
1
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Brigham Young
2
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas
Texas Tech
3
Texas Christian
Baylor
Cincinnati
Georgia Tech
4
West Virginia
Florida State
Clemson
Louisville
(Teams and Divisions are for illustrative purposes)
Iowa State would have a rival from each pod (for example - Oklahoma State, Baylor and Louisville - once again illustrative)
Year 1 - play 3 schools in pod
Play pod 2
Play Baylor
Play team in Pod 4 that finishes in same position (pod 1 hosts) - #1 teams game is the semifinal game and winner plays in championship
Year 2 - play 3 schools in pod
play pod 3
Play Louisville
Play team in pod 2 that finishes in same position (pod 2 hosts)
Year 3 - play 3 schools in pod
play pod 4
Play Oklahoma State
Play team in pod 1 that finishes in same position (pod 1 hosts)
Years 4 to 6 - just reverse the location of Years 1 to 3
This would mean we would play in 6 years:
Teams in pod 6 times
Rivals in other pods 4 times
Non Rivals in other pods 2 times
6 games based on finish - 2 from each pod
This guarantees that the 9th game will not be a rematch, allows you to play everyone at least every 3 years, and solves the problem of having a semifinal and championship being two extra games instead of just one extra.
I would be happy to see the ACC add Louisville, sign a GOR, and end this round of realignment. ACC, B1G, and SEC can enjoy their 14-team conferences... we are good with 10.
It would be even better if they added UConn rather than Louisville, though... just in case we wanted to expand at some point...
It would be even better if they added UConn rather than Louisville, though... just in case we wanted to expand at some point...
I know its just an example, but can everyone leave BYU out of all their future examples please? It just doesn't fit any way you slice it. I'd take friggin Kent State over BYU...
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