And I don't like that their arrogant either. My last thing I have to say is once LeBron wins a few titles, then he can earn his right to be arrogant on the court. I don't care about his MVPs because titles are obviously more important.
NBA: Playoff Time
- Thread starter CyJack13
- Start date
Yet Kobe is so much more clutch......little success between Shaq and Pau. In fact he missed the playoffs.
I'm feeling you with Shaq, especially because Kobe was still improving in those title years and Shaq was in his prime, but Gasol has never had the value of Wade let alone Wade and Bosh.
I don't see how someone can knock Kobe for those titles because he played on a loaded team. If you take the best player off every team, quite a few NBA teams are as good as those 2 championship Lakers teams every season. I'm not a Kobe fan at all either.
Here's a nice article on how "clutch" Kobe is. (Or isn't)
The truth about Kobe Bryant in crunch time - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN
The fact that Kobe will take the shot no matter how bad a shot it is, does not make him clutch, it makes him stubborn. Lebron tries to get the best shot, whether thats him taking it, or a team mate. Sometimes he succeeds, sometimes he fails, just like every other player who has ever played baskeball.
The truth about Kobe Bryant in crunch time - TrueHoop Blog - ESPN
The fact that Kobe will take the shot no matter how bad a shot it is, does not make him clutch, it makes him stubborn. Lebron tries to get the best shot, whether thats him taking it, or a team mate. Sometimes he succeeds, sometimes he fails, just like every other player who has ever played baskeball.
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I don't think it's really a knock. Kobe was the best player on those back to back teams, no question about that. But they don't win the title, especially against Boston, without Gasol. Kobe was 7/24 in Game 7, not exactly what you would call a clutch performance, Gasol threw up a 19/18 that night to help save the day.
Wade and Bosh are probably a better top two supporting guys than Gasol and Odom, but the Lakers had been together a few years and had a much better overall team. Bynum and Artest were much better 4th and 5th best guys than anybody Miami has. Also, that version of the Lakers lost in their first finals trip, just like Miami did last year.
Kobe got it done with a lot of help. I think LeBron will too at some point,
I've been aware of these #s and am of two minds on it a bit.
LeBron really is a great player in the clutch when he tries to be. No stars are as automatic people imagine them to be, and if I'm a coach I want the ball in LeBron's hands trying to score.
The reason for the perception is that LeBron has crucial or clutch games where he disappears. When he wants to take it over and win he's lethal. He just has games like that Pacers game where he only shoots once in the final four minutes, misses the free throws, and they lose.
Kobe, Jordan, Durant even players like Chauncy Billups don't have playoff games like that. They miss big shots, they miss free throws, but they go down swinging, not with zero field goal attempts in the final 4 minutes of a playoff game. His fans will make up lies like he was penetrating and creating assists, but he didn't, he did earlier in the game but in that last 4 minutes he just hung out by the 3 point line and did nothing offensively.
That's the scary thing about LeBron, there's really no reason he can't silence his critics on his one perceived weakness, he just needs to gun it. It's right there.
So both sides are right. He's an incredible finisher when he wants to be, but people aren't making up that he disappears at times. That's real and for some reason LeBron fans erase it from their brains like an X-Files alien abduction.
Pau Gasol was the best player for the Lakers in the 2010 finals. Mr. 6-24 is a very good player but he was never the type of player who could carry a mediocre team deep into the playoffs.
There are many things that Kobe does/did better than LeBron. Taking a crappy team on his back and carrying it to the conference finals/nba finals isn't one of them.
That all makes sense and even those who aren't fans would or could agree, as long as his fans (can we really call them Miami fans this early into it?) also see that he and Wade really got down and begged for this criticism with the championship rallies, TV specials and 8-peat talk.
If handled different he could have been Jordan to the public all over again (meaning most of the country is a fan with a few contrarians going against), even if he left Cleveland to team with another hall of fame player.
I'm not a "hater" for seeing this. It's simple reality. When you're the most talented ever, you do all this stuff...there's going to be scrutiny when you disappear for 4 minutes to lose a playoff game. He could have handled himself like Tim Duncan or Derek Rose and most of the "haters" would be indifferent or huge fans. That's not who he wanted to be or who he is, so he'll take criticism when he's not at 8-peat level.
To be fair LeBron delivers on the mind blowing talent, self generated hype, and ego he exudes a ton more than Dwight Howard does. Howard tries to emulate the way LeBron rolls and can't attract 1% of the fans or haters.
I don't see how this is apples to apples. Gasol never lead a team to a championship season. Wade did. He had Shaq, but Wade was the star. I hate giving Wade credit for it because really it was record shattering fouls and free throws that won it.
Nobody's arguing that any crappy teams ever won championships with one good player. I'm saying Wade is more help than Gasol over the course of several seasons, Wade/Bosh is certainly more to handle than Gasol/Odom. The Lakers were better 4 through 8 but tons of teams will be better 4-8 than a team with basically 3 max contracts.
Put Wade on the Cavs (Similar to the Pau to LA deal) and the Cavs win championships. That's essentially what the Lakers did but they also had Bynum, Odom, and fisher not to mention a few other guys who were certainly serviceable.
I don't think the three max contracts have hurt Miami's depth as much as poor signings have. They don't have much margin of error but there will always be veterans willing to take a pay cut to chase a ring. Haslem and Miller both have had bad luck with injuries, Joel Anthony was a terrible signing, Battier was a very poor signing of a guy who was looking washed up last season. Chalmers is slightly overpaid but I think he can be a rotation guy on a championship caliber team. I think Miami will be able to develop a quality rotation around their big three in the next few years. My completely crazy prediction, with nothing at all to back this up, that somehow a healthy Greg Oden will land there in two years.
When I said it right when he was in the act of disappearing in a close loss you didn't want to hear it because he's your favorite team. It's the same thing the guy above just posted.
I've probably said he's the most talented player ever twice as much as anyone in the thread. Yet he has games like 0-0, 0-2 in the final four minutes of a close playoff loss. That's clearly his one weakness, it's where Durant often excels. Durant had more points, blocks and rebounds, neither could win their conference regular season. It's completely understandable to think Durant had a nice argument for MVP. You're so charged up over your man crush you call that "hating". You're irrational about the topic if anyone is.
As soon as they win a title the great value veterans will start pouring in wanting to play with them for a ring. It happens pretty often. Some teams can overdo it a bit though, need some young blood too. The Laker Old Man All Star team comes to mind.
Steve Nash is going to face that decision this year. He'll get a lot more money elsewhere but the Heat would be an ideal team for his style of play.
Why do you keep put hating and hater in quotes? Does it actually mean something else?
Phoenix has gotten downright horrible, their personnel has gotten as bad as anyone outside of Charlotte, and Nash keeps chugging along. He's not the player he was but parts of his game don't get much worse with age, I only really watched him play once this season against Chicago but he had like 25 points and 10 assists and might have only missed a couple shots the entire game. Guy is as efficient as they come on offense.
