*** Official #2 IOWA STATE vs Kansas Game(Day) Thread ***

[Big_Sill]

Played plenty of ball. Played post & you have to hit 50%+ of those shots.

You have to take it strong and finish or get fouled. Lack of concentration? Lack of effort? Both?

But no one’s winning **** shooting like that from 5ft in…

You have to finish yes, but there are not layups and bunnies. Those aren't a thing and finishing at the rim isn't a given or easy to do. If layups and bunnies existed, then you wouldn't need to "take it strong and finish or get fouled".... as you say.

I have a pet peeve for the term layups and bunnies (clearly).

 

[1TwistedCyclone]

Ughhh. It is not losing the unblemished record. Its not even looking like steaming excrement. Its losing to Kansas, again, pure and simple.

 

[Cloned4Life]

I keep seeing this but let's actually look at what happened.

Last year, Milan broke his hand January 15th. Tamin was not right all year. Gilbert was effectively out the last 1/3rd of conference play and the tournament. It was really only CuJo and JJ at the end of the year.

2023-2024 they go 13-5 from January through the end of the regular season and win the conference tournament and go to a Sweet 16.

2022-2023 they did not play well at the back end of the season, but truthfully that team just wasn't that good. Kind of a miracle we did what we did with Kalscheur and Holmes being your main options.

2021-2022 he takes a team of transfers and Hunter and has a bit of a rough conference play, but gets to a Sweet 16.

Nothing about what you posted refutes the comment you are replying to.

We can very easily see that - TJ's teams do hit a wall in January and February. You simply listed excuses as to 'why' it happens.

It is OK for fans to observe this and wonder about it and talk about it.

The 23-34 season was certainly the 'best' so far, as we started 20-5 and finished 9-3 the last 12 games of the season (including the fun ride in Kansas City, of course). I do consider the K-State loss and the Illinois loss frustrating because in those games, the offense was really poor (e.g., horrible spacing, lack of ball movement, etc.).

My hope for this season is that we adjust to the adjustments being made in playing us.

 

[NorthCyd]

TJ teams usually peak in December. Then last year by the time the tourney started we were a shell of our December selves. Reality is harsh hopefully the pattern gets bucked here.

This gets so old. What would TJs teams have to have done in the post season to not have this "burn out" narrative? Let's look at the facts of where TJ ranks in post season play for ISU coaches.

Tjs teams have made the NCAA tournament every year which ties him for second all time for tournament appearances behind Orr.

TJ has a winning record and the most wins in the NCAA tournament of any ISU coach

TJ has 2 sweet 16 appearances which is more than any other ISU coach

He has won the Big XII tournament and had a historic victory over #1 Houston in the championship game.

He did all this in his first 4 seasons as head coach and taking over the program after the worst season in the history of the program.

I mean, what else would his teams need to do to prove they don't "burn out"? Final 4? National championship?

Have his teams struggled in the dog days of conference play? Sure. I imagine that is true for many teams. That doesn’t mean his teams don't perform at the end of the season. He has done better in post season than pretty much any other coach in the history of the school.

 

[1SEIACLONE]

Did ISU just not take apart a Houston team a couple of years ago in the B12 championship game, we beat them by 25 if I remember correctly. A Houston team that won the conference and finished the year losing to Duke in the sweet 16. Loses like last night happen, we could play that game 10 times and KU would not shoot like they did last night in any of the other games, they shot at a 50% rate. ISU struggled, we missed easy shots, had far too many turnovers and lost on their home floor to a team that had to have the win to stay in the race. It happens, learn from it, and move on, no one thought we were going to be undefeated the entire year.

 

[rochclone]

Yeah I think it's a bit disingenuous to try to compare last night's loss with "other highly ranked teams over the years having bad losses" as some sort of coping mechanism.

Personally, I think it does matter which "half" that you get trounced in. That first half last night was historically bad for Iowa State. The second half last night was meaningless.

I don’t think when we cut it to 11 it was meaningleess. We were a bucket or two away from putting some game pressure on them.

 

[StLouisClone]

TJ teams usually peak in December. Then last year by the time the tourney started we were a shell of our December selves. Reality is harsh hopefully the pattern gets bucked here.

I've always felt this is due to our 8-man lineup. Helps those 8 guys gel quicker than teams with a 10-man lineup. But once the conference schedule starts, we have struggled against teams that are deeper (like BYU). That's not the case with KU though as they aren't very deep at all.

Last night's loss was a result of a poor game plan on offense and a lack of intensity on defense.

 

[not-the-manager]

The issue isn't schematic, it's personnel at the moment. Killian has lost confidence in his jump shot. Blake and Pleta are not threats from the outside. Tamin is a guy you kind of guard at the 3 point line but aren't too worried about his jump shooting. When they can sag on our 5 and Killian, and only half guard Tamin deep it allows the defense to play no-help and faceguard Milan and to dig on JJ. We become a really easy guard at that point.

I think you just have to see Batemon take some of Killian's minutes. He's put enough on tape that you have to respect his outside shot, and that's going to open things up for everyone.

Last night was so strange. I don’t know that it’s a schematic or a personnel issue. The first five minutes of the game they, like, didn’t pass the ball… No ball screen and slip pass to get it to Jefferson or Buchanan in the high post, no cutting to stress the defense when Lipsey would drive, certainly no passing around the perimeter. Of course, when Jefferson and Lipsey weren’t taking the air out of the ball they were turning it over, which also makes it hard to get some offensive flow. I wonder if opponents assigning a defender to drape Momcilovic is affecting the team’s ability to run some motion around the perimeter, because they don’t want their passes to get jumped. I think when things were starting to go sideways they may have been better served giving Momcilovic some iso on the wing rather than keeping the ball in Jefferson’s hands, but I’m just some idiot poster. I do know Otz preaches that they’re at their best when the ball is moving. They’re going to have to figure out why that’s not translating to games

 

[Saul_T]

After last nights performance and everyone's reaction here on this board, it's clear Iowa State should immediately shut down their basketball program as it is an utter and complete failure.

 

[enisthemenace]

I don’t think when we cut it to 11 it was meaningleess. We were a bucket or two away from putting some game pressure on them.

I don’t disagree with this at all. When we got it to 11 with 13 minutes left, I thought we were in for a game. A 3 by Kansas, a layup from Batemon that barely leaked off the rim, and a missed 3 from Heise, and it was back to 20 in the blink of an eye, but we did have a moment.

I’ll go back to the way we started though. We put ourselves in position to have to be virtually perfect in the 2nd half to even have a chance. We looked really, really good the first 6.5 minutes of the 2nd half, but “perfect” didn’t happen. If we start the game better, “perfect” may not have been necessary.

 

[clone1990]

Ughhh. It is not losing the unblemished record. Its not even looking like steaming excrement. Its losing to Kansas, again, pure and simple.

In an absolute beat down.

 

[1SEIACLONE]

I don’t disagree with this at all. When we got it to 11 with 13 minutes left, I thought we were in for a game. A 3 by Kansas, a layup from Batemon that barely leaked off the rim, and a missed 3 from Heise, and it was back to 20 in the blink of an eye, but we did have a moment.

I’ll go back to the way we started though. We put ourselves in position to have to be virtually perfect in the 2nd half to even have a chance. We looked really, really good the first 6.5 minutes of the 2nd half, but “perfect” didn’t happen. If we start the game better, “perfect” may not have been necessary.

We started off slow, lots of turnovers and missed shots, while KU came out balling. Allowing their crowd to get into the game. KU was playing free and lose with the lead, while ISU struggled and was trying to force way to much, which cost us more turnovers and missed shots. It was a perfect storm for getting beat. We came out well the 2nd half, got within 9 or 11, then missed a couple of shots and KU hit a few and it was all over but the press conference. Sloppy play on the road to a talent team is hard to overcome, we had D+ to C- game while we got KUs A game, it happens. Learn from it, look at what went wrong and move on, the worst thing the team can do now is keep thinking about the lose and dwelling on it. It's one game in a long season, Arizona and the teams above us are not going to go undefeated either. ISU will be fine.

 

[awd4cy]

Wow! The sun came up here this morning!

btw the last NCAA Division I men’s basketball team to finish an entire season undefeated — including winning the national championship — was the 1975–76 Indiana Hoosiers. Also no men’s DI team since then has won the national championship with exactly one loss so don't give up NC hopes if we lose another game.

I think the large part of the disappointment was we weren’t even competitive last night. KU ran us out of the building. We will all be happier when we realize this team is very good, but still has flaws. Houston, Arizona, and likely BYU are all just a level better than us. Those teams don’t have the level of letdown we had last night.

 

[NENick]

how is this wrong. Name a good full game they've played since Purdue

The Cyclones have not played a perfect game since Purdue. I agree. Purdue may be the peak performance for this team.
Kansas may have played to their peak last night.

The facts include that Baylor is a decent, probably good, team. ISU beat them, on the road, in front of a great crowd, by double digits. OSU is a decent team, very athletic. ISU beat them by double digits.

I expected a much better performance last night. I was surprised and disappointed. But it's a long season a very few teams, if any, will have full games of peak performance. I'm hopeful for a bounce back Saturday.

 

[CyNews]

A critique of their play is absolutely acceptable.
They failed to create turnovers and Jefferson not playing well stuff like that absolutely fair.
That said you see things like Baylor blowing OSU on the road which tells you never assume anything in this league.

Just don't go into hyperbolic stupidity. Which for the most part people avoided in the thread but we still get a dusting of that type overreaction. But those who do it are the same ones normally so to be expected I guess

Jefferson exerted a lot of effort. Needs help. Kansas whipped the ball around and their bigs got us at the rim. But,hey,paybacks are hell.

 

[fsanford]

I think the large part of the disappointment was we weren’t even competitive last night. KU ran us out of the building. We will all be happier when we realize this team is very good, but still has flaws. Houston, Arizona, and likely BYU are all just a level better than us. Those teams don’t have the level of letdown we had last night.

Too early to know what BYU is they have played the bottom 3 teams in the league. They struggled against bad Utah team. Not sure who they are. Jan 26th to Feb 10th will define their season.

Zona will see what they are made of later in the season, their schedule gets nasty, right now it's easy. But they are smoking bad teams

Houston probably wins the league again. They will prove yet again they are the best at making teams do things they don't want to.


That said still too early to make any kind of assumptions in this league. If Peterson can stay on the floor KU is much much better. And Self has had many a KU team that looks bad and then puts it together .

Thought Baylor was going to crash and burn, they go on the road and blow out OSU. Didnt see that coming.

Big 12 is a crazy place.

ISU has a favorable schedule at BYU and Zona suck, but you only play them once. You only play Tech and Houston once and you get them at home.

 

[awd4cy]

Too early to know what BYU is they have played the bottom 3 teams in the league. They struggled against bad Utah team. Not sure who they are.

Zona will see what they are made of later in the season, their schedule gets nasty, right now it's easy. But they are smoking bad teams

Houston probably wins the league again. They will prove yet again they are the best at making teams do things they don't want to.


That said still too early to make any kind of assumptions in this league. If Peterson can stay on the floor KU is much much better. And Self has had many a KU team that looks bad and then puts it together .

Thought Baylor was going to crash and burn, they go on the road and blow out OSU. Didnt see that coming.

Big 12 is a crazy place

Arizonas non conference had Florida, UCLA, UConn, Auburn, and Alabama. They are plenty proven. Houston seems to really be getting into conference form.

 

[CYEATHAWK]

Too early to know what BYU is they have played the bottom 3 teams in the league. They struggled against bad Utah team. Not sure who they are. Jan 26th to Feb 10th will define their season.

Zona will see what they are made of later in the season, their schedule gets nasty, right now it's easy. But they are smoking bad teams

Houston probably wins the league again. They will prove yet again they are the best at making teams do things they don't want to.


That said still too early to make any kind of assumptions in this league. If Peterson can stay on the floor KU is much much better. And Self has had many a KU team that looks bad and then puts it together .

Thought Baylor was going to crash and burn, they go on the road and blow out OSU. Didnt see that coming.

Big 12 is a crazy place.

ISU has a favorable schedule at BYU and Zona suck, but you only play them once. You only play Tech and Houston once and you get them at home.

The Big 12 may be a crazy place, but the next 7 games ISU will and should be favored. Would be nice to see them get their act together and make hay with that before the schedule gets crazy at the end of February.

 

[LtRaczack]

I think we'd be better off as a society if people on sports message boards that say the players are lazy, arrogant, don't care, etc. had to say it to the player directly, maybe I'd allow a phone call, before being allowed to post it on the internet.

We'd be MUCH better off as a society if people didn't care so much about sports at all. The players and coaches could just do it for pure fun and recreation. We could just watch and exchange kind pleasantries providing we don't have better things to do.

However, college sports today is a money freight train based upon fame. The price of fame is someone criticizing you no matter what you do and how well you do it.

Yes, the game last night sucked but it is really not that big of a deal. The coaches still get paid, the players still get paid, the team will be back for the next game and nothing anyone posts online anywhere will change that.

In summary what I am saying is your dream of sitting alone in Hilton watching a game all by yourself would be closer to reality if this whole money thing went away.

There is always tomorrow........

 

[fsanford]

Arizonas non conference had Florida, UCLA, UConn, Auburn, and Alabama. They are plenty proven. Houston seems to really be getting into conference form.

But they still have not played in conference games against top 6.

UCLA got blown out by Iowa, Auburn is not good.
Bama lost to Purdue, Mizzou who KU blew out

Still too many games yet to play. Zona does look good though. They play BYU twice KU twice.
At Houston. Get Tech at home