*** Official #2 IOWA STATE vs Kansas Game(Day) Thread ***

[fsanford]

Yeah...lots of coping going on. Not only was it a 20 point loss, ISU was down by 26 points in the first half...that's like DII-playing-DI bad. Yet it was the supposed #2 team in the country playing an unranked team. How many times a year does a top-10 (or top-25 for that matter) get down 26 points in the first half of a conference game? Maybe it happens more than I think.

KU was top 25 in net/KenPom. Personally I use that stuff cuz tourney folks do as well or so I have heard.

But if you go with writers opinions,
In 2022 CU whooped #2 Arizona in conference play by 16 to an unranked CU. CU was up by like 25 at one point. CU went 21-12 that year in a pedestrian Pac 12.

There are other examples of teams getting smacked around as well.

But of course it's not common place, but it does happen

Last night was ISU's first quad 1 loss this year

 

[3TrueFans]

Can we stop with the lazy comments? Often times apprehension and uncertainty can be mistaken for laziness. It's not fair to make assumptions about heart and effort when you have no idea what's going on with these guys. This team, and TJs teams in general, has earned the benefit of the doubt in that area.

I think we'd be better off as a society if people on sports message boards that say the players are lazy, arrogant, don't care, etc. had to say it to the player directly, maybe I'd allow a phone call, before being allowed to post it on the internet.

 

[drmwevr08]

It's likely that the team is about as good as we'd hoped they'd be but not as good as the undefeated record, and Purdue win especially, made it look. There is more to fix that it appeared a few weeks ago but a lot of reason to believe this team can beat anyone. Just be at the best in March and it should be fun.

 

[werdnamanhill]

3 seed

 

[jbhtexas]

KU was top 25 in net/KenPom. Personally I use that stuff cuz tourney folks do as well or so I have heard.

But if you go with writers opinions,
In 2022 CU whooped #2 Arizona in conference play by 16 to an unranked CU. CU was up by like 25 at one point. CU went 21-12 that year in a pedestrian Pac 12.

There are other examples of teams getting smacked around as well.

But of course it's not common place, but it does happen

Last night was ISU's first quad 1 loss this year

Arizona led that game by 5 points at halftime. Not quite the same as getting down 26 points in the first half.

 

[Bo Darville]

I don't know about the effort.

I do know that this team hasn't looked like a 1 seed since Purdue, and after a 16-0 start and the national attention they were getting, that's going to disappoint a few fans.

It's just one game, but the hallmark of elite teams is that they're consistent. The concerning part is that we've seen this movie before. Start strong, get tested, get punched, revert to the mean, few bad breaks (maybe an injury or two), seed line gradually falls through conference play. Limp in as a lower seed. A bunch of fans say that "seed doesn't matter". Early tournament exit.

I think how we come out and play in the next couple games will be very telling, one way or the other.

 

[Clonefan32]

The issue isn't schematic, it's personnel at the moment. Killian has lost confidence in his jump shot. Blake and Pleta are not threats from the outside. Tamin is a guy you kind of guard at the 3 point line but aren't too worried about his jump shooting. When they can sag on our 5 and Killian, and only half guard Tamin deep it allows the defense to play no-help and faceguard Milan and to dig on JJ. We become a really easy guard at that point.

I think you just have to see Batemon take some of Killian's minutes. He's put enough on tape that you have to respect his outside shot, and that's going to open things up for everyone.

 

[fsanford]

Arizona led that game by 5 points at halftime. Not quite the same as getting down 26 points in the first half.

But got blown out the 2nd half not sure if it really matters what half you got blown out in. You got blown out you got stomped,.
ISU and KU played to a draw 2nd half, Self kept starters in with like a minute to play


In KenPom that year CU was ranked 79th

Which loss is worse?

Believe Zona was a #1 seed in the tourney. Now, as others have pointed out, you get blown out regular season, you might get as far as elite 8. Zona that year lost to Houston in the sweet 16. So in terms of that it's not a good omen

 

[enisthemenace]

It doesn't change the fact but when a team comes out and guards you in a way that they haven't shown yet this season (and you had no way to practice for) it's going to take some adjusting to.

Straight from the man himself:

 

[Cloned4Life]

Arizona led that game by 5 points at halftime. Not quite the same as getting down 26 points in the first half.

Yeah I think it's a bit disingenuous to try to compare last night's loss with "other highly ranked teams over the years having bad losses" as some sort of coping mechanism.

Personally, I think it does matter which "half" that you get trounced in. That first half last night was historically bad for Iowa State. The second half last night was meaningless.

 

[Wemmie]

But got blown out the 2nd half not sure if it really matters what half you got blown out in. You got blown out you got stomped,.
ISU and KU played to a draw 2nd half, Self kept starters in with like a minute to play


In KenPom that year CU was ranked 79th

Which loss is worse?

ours cause we lost to ******* kansas

 

[Cloned4Life]

Straight from the man himself:

Ha, if TJ had posted these same thoughts on this message board, he would get "dumb'd"

 

[fsanford]

ours cause we lost to ******* kansas

In terms of seeding you would be incorrect. In terms of unchecked emotion you are probably right

 

[isufbcurt]

Sounds like a good time to start the game in a zone defense or something different than our bread and butter.

That's not happening. TJ is all about the "process" meaning he's going to do what we do whether it works or not.

 

[Wemmie]

In terms of seeding you would be incorrect. In terms of unchecked emotion you are probably right

that's fair

 

[cyclones500]

I do grow tired of all the usual excuses.

• "[opponent] was desperate and really needed this win" We didn't? Would have been a big one.
• "[opponent] was really fired up" See above.
• "We're tired / long season" KU had plenty of energy, everyone plays the same number of games.
• "Big 12 coaches are really good and have scouted us" What are our coaches doing?
• "[player] is injured" Every team has injuries; OSU's #2 scorer missed the game last week; KU's best player can't/won't play a full game

Or my favorite from the three post-Purdue buy-games that we sleep-walked through: "It's right before finals / during finals / right before xmas / right after new years / bla bla" (buy-game opponents celebrate holidays and have finals too)

It's okay to be upset and critical when the team plays poorly and loses by 20 points.

I would add:

• "When you're at top 5 team, you have a target on your back/get every team's best shot." There's some truth to it, but you can't rely on it as an excuse.

 

[trajanJ]

KU was top 25 in net/KenPom. Personally I use that stuff cuz tourney folks do as well or so I have heard.

But if you go with writers opinions,
In 2022 CU whooped #2 Arizona in conference play by 16 to an unranked CU. CU was up by like 25 at one point. CU went 21-12 that year in a pedestrian Pac 12.

There are other examples of teams getting smacked around as well.

But of course it's not common place, but it does happen

Last night was ISU's first quad 1 loss this year

In '22 KU lost by 18 to Kentucky at home and went on and won the NC. It's one game, ISU will bounce back.

 

[cycloneretro]

The issue isn't schematic, it's personnel at the moment. Killian has lost confidence in his jump shot. Blake and Pleta are not threats from the outside. Tamin is a guy you kind of guard at the 3 point line but aren't too worried about his jump shooting. When they can sag on our 5 and Killian, and only half guard Tamin deep it allows the defense to play no-help and faceguard Milan and to dig on JJ. We become a really easy guard at that point.

I think you just have to see Batemon take some of Killian's minutes. He's put enough on tape that you have to respect his outside shot, and that's going to open things up for everyone.

Always nice to see someone talk basketball rather than “16-1 we will be fine quit being greedy”

 

[fsanford]

I would add:

• "When you're at top 5 team, you have a target on your back/get every team's best shot." There's some truth to it, but you can't rely on it as an excuse.

Kind of new for ISU though, and listening to TJ it certainly was a factor last night.

 

[Clonefan32]

Sometimes things don't need to be overthought. Instead of assuming it was laziness, or lack of preparation, or indifference, or whatever else you come up with, maybe it's just that basketball is a hard game and Phog is a tough place to play. Kansas made a bunch of shots and we missed a bunch of shots. **** happens, and it's not necessarily some massive indictment on the status of this team.

This group may struggle during conference play, and it happens. It's a tough league. At the end of the day, if we stay healthy we have AA type players at PG, wing and post. That's a combination that can take a ways in March.