When do you think you will buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?

When will you buy a 100% pure electric vehicle?

  • Already Own One

    Votes: 72 8.1%
  • In the next year

    Votes: 7 0.8%
  • Between 1-5 years

    Votes: 163 18.4%
  • 6-10 years

    Votes: 189 21.4%
  • 10+ years or never

    Votes: 453 51.2%

  • Total voters
    884
American auto manufacturing will be dead in 10 to 20 years.

We're falling so far behind China right now.
Guessing the reason behind the lightening dropped is purely demand. People have to understand that pickups are a fraction of the F150 market. F150/250/350 cab and chassis sales are the major portion of the sales. Until EVs can get the batteries to be able to tow and haul heavier stuff For job sites and work applications, the purchases will generally be gas.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: BigCyFan
We're falling so far behind China right now.
We fell behind the Japanese back in the 70s and 80s. They were buying up everything and Detroit was a debacle, and everyone was freaked out. Then Lee Iacocca and others got things back rolling to compete again.

The question now is, do we have the people who are smart and driven enough to lead another comeback? And do we have government policies that will help rather than hinder that comeback?

I think a measure of panic is good to create a sense of urgency, but I wouldn't give up on Detroit yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BCClone
We fell behind the Japanese back in the 70s and 80s. They were buying up everything and Detroit was a debacle, and everyone was freaked out. Then Lee Iacocca and others got things back rolling to compete again.

The question now is, do we have the people who are smart and driven enough to lead another comeback? And do we have government policies that will help rather than hinder that comeback?

I think a measure of panic is good to create a sense of urgency, but I wouldn't give up on Detroit yet.
I lived during this time, and the big thing that the Japanese had over Domestics was quality. Like everything else Chinese, price is what sells the Chinese products. I can't imagine a way that U.S. manufacturers can make a profitable $25k BEV. China is making millions.
 
I lived during this time, and the big thing that the Japanese had over Domestics was quality. Like everything else Chinese, price is what sells the Chinese products. I can't imagine a way that U.S. manufacturers can make a profitable $25k BEV. China is making millions.
China's very low labor costs and regulations play favorably into this. We could probably do it to, but people wouldnt like it. Its tough to compete with that.
 

China is the largest importer of oil in the world. Their shift to EV vehicles will have a major impact on global oil markets.
Oh for sure, but they will still require it for manufacturing other items like plastics, cosmetics, textiles, etc which they pump out in the billions. When they stop that, oil will tumble hard.

Consumer fuel needs will drop eventually, but heavy machinery and others will be burning it for a long time to come yet as well.
 
China's very low labor costs and regulations play favorably into this. We could probably do it to, but people wouldnt like it. Its tough to compete with that.
Back when I did a lot of component costing the general rule of thumb for labor in the US vs China you figured somewhere between $180-$200/hr for labor on anything produced domestically vs $1/hr for assembly and $12/hr for machining in China. Material costs were typically flat because metals like oil are a global commodity and you pay basically the same price no mattery where you're buying it at. That was a decade ago so I'm sure those prices are higher on both ends but I bet that gap hasn't changed much.
 

China is the largest importer of oil in the world. Their shift to EV vehicles will have a major impact on global oil markets.

Long Economist article, and one of several about solar/battery/EV in that weeks edition. Short story is they are maxing out on all 3. Its a huge win for China: make money selling stuff, save money (on oil), and develop their economy.

China now pumps out enough solar panels annually to provide nearly 5% of the WORLD's electricity demand. Every year. And panels are now 5% of the cost they were 20 years ago, and getting cheaper. Oil will be a niche product sooner than you think.

TBH, it's a shame that the US isn't leading this technology revolution. But I do get that cheap labor and "flexible" environmental rules gave China a huge advantage.

China Solar - Too Big to Fail
 
Long Economist article, and one of several about solar/battery/EV in that weeks edition. Short story is they are maxing out on all 3. Its a huge win for China: make money selling stuff, save money (on oil), and develop their economy.

China now pumps out enough solar panels annually to provide nearly 5% of the WORLD's electricity demand. Every year. And panels are now 5% of the cost they were 20 years ago, and getting cheaper. Oil will be a niche product sooner than you think.

TBH, it's a shame that the US isn't leading this technology revolution. But I do get that cheap labor and "flexible" environmental rules gave China a huge advantage.

China Solar - Too Big to Fail
Sadly, the demand for electricity will far exceed the growth capacity of solar ... if we continue to buy into the addictive need for more electricity. Digital currency and AI alone will exponentially increase the demand. We're in very precarious times now. Interestingly, for personal reason, I've reduced my usage of electricity 10 fold. Does anyone realize the impact if even 10% of the population did this? It really is up to us.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: NWICY
Sadly, the demand for electricity will far exceed the growth capacity of solar ... if we continue to buy into the addictive need for more electricity. Digital currency and AI alone will exponentially increase the demand. We're in very precarious times now. Interestingly, for personal reason, I've reduced my usage of electricity 10 fold. Does anyone realize the impact if even 10% of the population did this? It really is up to us.
The massive expansion of demand is why we need better adoption of renewables in my book. We're running out of coal and gas faster and faster with each passing day. We don't need perfection... We just need the proportional usage of non-renewable sources to drop and be replaced by renewables where possible.
 
I just heard a good podcast on energy, and how China is dominating the future of power generation.

The Daily
The Future of Energy has Arrived--Just not in the U.S.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: CascadeClone
Long Economist article, and one of several about solar/battery/EV in that weeks edition. Short story is they are maxing out on all 3. Its a huge win for China: make money selling stuff, save money (on oil), and develop their economy.

China now pumps out enough solar panels annually to provide nearly 5% of the WORLD's electricity demand. Every year. And panels are now 5% of the cost they were 20 years ago, and getting cheaper. Oil will be a niche product sooner than you think.

TBH, it's a shame that the US isn't leading this technology revolution. But I do get that cheap labor and "flexible" environmental rules gave China a huge advantage.

China Solar - Too Big to Fail
We were probably doomed on the production side of renewables but we were still leading the charge on R&D. Now that's going to be completely gone too.
 
We were probably doomed on the production side of renewables but we were still leading the charge on R&D. Now that's going to be completely gone too.
Im not convinced of this at all. There is too much money in it.
 
The massive expansion of demand is why we need better adoption of renewables in my book. We're running out of coal and gas faster and faster with each passing day. We don't need perfection... We just need the proportional usage of non-renewable sources to drop and be replaced by renewables where possible.
Yes. But, something I touched on earlier, a much greater focus on 'quality' and showing it by 'backing it' with better and longer warranties.

Also, and I can site MANY examples, we need better DIY fixables. I used to open my car hood and fix about anything, san changing the header gasket. Today, it requires a degree. I've got a neighbor with a tractor from the 50s which still purrs along without any problems. I'd be happy to forego the plethora of electronic amenities. Heck, my tractor has this regeneration crap which takes up 20% of my fuel and has just recently shutdown the whole tractor.

There are some open-source truck manufacturers. That'll be interesting.
 
Back when I did a lot of component costing the general rule of thumb for labor in the US vs China you figured somewhere between $180-$200/hr for labor on anything produced domestically vs $1/hr for assembly and $12/hr for machining in China. Material costs were typically flat because metals like oil are a global commodity and you pay basically the same price no mattery where you're buying it at. That was a decade ago so I'm sure those prices are higher on both ends but I bet that gap hasn't changed much.
Companies that price me steel for needs can get me the steel components cheaper from China when trucking from the SE costs me $1800 and the container freight cost is $12k. Labor costs in China are dirt cheap and regulations are basically non existent there.
 
Japanese auto makers will have different challenges given Japan’s disadvantages for renewable energy and their own grid.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: bos
Companies that price me steel for needs can get me the steel components cheaper from China when trucking from the SE costs me $1800 and the container freight cost is $12k. Labor costs in China are dirt cheap and regulations are basically non existent there.

I have designed a few consumer products sold in China and their safety labeling is actually above and beyond what is required in the US/EU...but the question is if any of it is actually enforced and how many pirated goods are out there that don't comply the way an American company has to. I have a strong suspicion it's just for show where when the EU or US leapfrog each other on safety requirements it's a very real thing that needs to be adapted to or you'll be screwed.
 
I have designed a few consumer products sold in China and their safety labeling is actually above and beyond what is required in the US/EU...but the question is if any of it is actually enforced and how many pirated goods are out there that don't comply the way an American company has to. I have a strong suspicion it's just for show where when the EU or US leapfrog each other on safety requirements it's a very real thing that needs to be adapted to or you'll be screwed.
I’m more saying regulations on how things are produced, not how safe they are for the consumer. There are components here that have high regulations on worker safety that aren’t as high in China (or they weren’t when I was running a factory in the 90s).
 
It doesn't have to be your only vehicle, just your first.
It comes down to battery technology which has advanced faster than anticipated in the last 10 years but still has a ways to go. There are a number of companies with announced plans for batteries that would allow +600 miles per charge at a fraction of the current cost. By 2030 I would expect these batteries will be available.

Given EVs have 1/3 the parts of ICEs promising far lower costs, far more torque, life spans that should easily be over 10 years and much less need for periodic maintenance, once batteries hit the sweet spot it will be game, set match.

If you look at it, ICEs are a cludge. Explosions that produce an up and down motion of pistons that gets translated with a drive train to a turning motion, producing more heat than torque requiring liquid pouring through the engine block to keep it from melting along with a water pump and radiator, an electric motor to get it started, a controlled gas/air mixture, a transmission with low gears to start the vehicle moving forward and higher gears to get higher speed because the torque produced is so small and everywhere points of friction between metal parts that must be overcome.... I could go on and on and on...

While EVs have 1 or 2 electric motors that have almost no friction because they use magnetism to power the turning motion (0 contact with other metal parts) and incredible torque.

The problem has always been the batteries, many new technologies are being explored, we are in the first part of the bathtub curve on EVs, in the end ICEs are doomed that is why all major car companies are investing heavily in EVs. They know what the engineering and economics are leading to. In 2040, ICEs will be horse and buggies compared to EVs.

At least, that is my view...