Who does ISU go after
- Thread starter Scott34
- Start date
As ISU22Cy said, I meant the assistant coaches under KJ. I've fixed this in the original ... thanks.
Is this accurate that Gibbons was trying to get the job? Why would he walk away years ago to throw his hat in the ring at that point?
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Ahhh makes sense. I wouldn't mind seeing the Paulsons kept around if it worked for everybody but only if the next HC wants them. Keeping top recruits would be great but if and when we get a new coach, he has to be allowed to run things however he sees fit.
I remember hearing that he wanted the job again when Cael left, and I would have been fine with him getting it. I still think he's a great teacher of the sport. I think the reasons for him leaving in the first place were money and time. He could make more money in the private sector than he was making as a wrestling coach, and he was only in his early 30s when he left and was ready to experience something besides wrestling.
Based on who told me I believe it to be true--during the KJ hiring process he made a case for himself to be hired. He left due to some burnout but also due to the limited salary paid to wrestling coaches at that time. At this point, though I respect the heck out of him, I think his window to be the HC has closed.
Noted..thank you. Remember, unless they end up on the same side of the brackets, a Dean v Downey finals.
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Below are two planned posts I wrote and thought about posting last night, but decided not to, and that maybe I would later. But because of Chris's remarks elsewhere, I decided to post them as is now -- even though they might have been shortened and cleaned up quite a bit had I not.
One is very long but pretty much speaks for itself. One thing about Gibbons as head coach before is that the air was pretty much sucked out of the Cyclone program because of Gable at UI, and as the top college coach before Gable was no longer at the helm at ISU, Harold Nichols. UI was on top of the wrestling world then, pretty much alone by itself. I don’t know what would have happened otherwise, if Gibbons had stayed on; but having Bobby Douglas take over helped bring recruits in from all over the country.
*****
If KJ is let go, as for the need to keep any current staff and signed recruits together, I think that is largely contingent or a function of who you can get as replacement.
If we get a big big name it is less of an issue. For one, the recruits are more likely to want to stay. If not, and IMO this is more likely, I am concerned that a change might set the program back quite a bit if it doesn't work out. And we can all hope for the best -- and I like Prohm and Campbell -- but as people here are already saying, I am concerned that JP lacks the knowledge and experience in the area of wrestling coaches in particular, that for him to hire an untested candidate is a bit of a risk.
JP obviously should be in contact with Jim Gibbons for advice. Let me repeat, that is true in any case. I would go further and say that I would be perfectly fine if he were the next head coach.
I worked out a fairly often in college, and in Gibbons’s first year as head coach, 1986-87, I was rehabilitating a knee. On message boards and elsewhere, I have given Gibbons’ assistant [former Hawkeye] Ed Banach a great deal of credit for what I saw, sometimes on an almost daily basis, after practice in the steam room and sauna in Beyer -- Banach going through mental conditioning with team members that would result, though ISU also had great team, in a big upset to win the team title in 1987.
It was pretty cool -- but only in hindsight.
Probably no one outside of that Cyclone team thought anyone could beat the Hawks, who at the time had the most consecutive NCAA wrestling team titles in history, at nine. [Note: I thought that made them tied with Yale crew for the most in any sport; but looking online today, maybe I was thinking Yale golf, which had eight. So maybe nine is the most in any sport, with UI not tied with anyone else.]
Again, here I was, witnessing one of Gable’s top pupils interacting and conditioning these guys in the same space and likely the same manner Gable himself did when was at ISU.
I was aware of Gibbons and his brothers, both in high school and in college. But unlike Banach, who I saw all the time, I didn't see Gibbons’s input because I wasn't in the wrestling room.
When Gibbons started broadcasting wrestling meets I saw how knowledgeable he was, and not just that, but saw him as a master technician in the mold of his coach and the guy he got the head coaching job over, longtime ISU assistant Les Anderson. I am sure Gibbons had skills and knowledge of his own, independently, but it seems to me there is likely a great deal of overlap between his and Gable’s knowledge and understanding of technical aspects and Les Anderson’s. Jim is a great broadcaster in large part because of this knowledge.
I don’t know, and there are a lot of people knowledgeable of wrestling. But it is my impression that you might not find better proteges of Les Anderson than Jim Gibbons and Dan Gable.
Anyway, I long gave Ed Banach a great deal of credit for that 1987 title, and deservedly so, but because of what I had seen. I saw Gibbons maybe once. But I'm sure his impact was as great or surely greater. It was that kind of performance on the mat. ISU had some great wrestlers, but only won that title by everyone wrestling at a high level.
A few years later, Banach had issues because of past concussions, I think, and became an academic advisor, as a result. And Gibbons left for a better paying job.
A huge challenge at that time would have been recruiting, as most top Iowa HS wrestlers wanted to wrestle for Gable then. Coming from Arizona State, Bobby Douglas was able to bring in some top recruits from all over when he took over.
I don't know if Gibbons would be a fallback position, or a first choice, but I would certainly have no problem with it. Because Gibbons is older he probably wouldn’t be here forever; and if I were in JP’s position, I would certainly appreciate having someone so knowledgeable and trustworthy on staff. I don't want to say I don't trust JP to not mess this up. But I would, furthermore, feel more comfortable with someone more knowledgeable about about the sport on his staff, like Gibbons, who might help arrange a more certain and orderly transition when he left.
Anyway that is my two cents.
I don't think people can state with certainty, a hard and fast rule up front on retaining staff, recruits, and current team members, without a better idea who you might get, and what the prospective coach’s own needs and preferences are.
And FWIW, the comments above do not preclude a highly positive outcome inconsistent with my own preferences and opinions at this point.
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I wanted to add that there has been some pretty good discussion here lately, both in general and what is going on in meets, the specifics.
One thing I didn't used to like about seemingly underperforming during the season and then the opposite at the NCAA tournament (and this was pre-KJ), was dealing with all the negativity, there often all season long. One or two or more posters would regularly just post some negative comment and/or calling for a different coach with no indication that they even watched or were aware of what was going on, rather, just that ISU should have won more, or done better.
Cael’s senior year, for example, I believe Heskett and Holker also won titles, and ISU finished second to most everyone's surprise and enjoyment. The naysayers suddenly had nothing to say. They were virtually silent (not all, probably, but close). In the meantime, this naysaying (regularly) went on ALL season long on boards like this, virtually, until the very end.
Recruiting was my biggest concern, and if comments on message boards are not independent of such decisions, which I don’t believe they are (completely), that the naysayers’ opinions could be self-fulfilling, and their reasoning, circular.
But besides that the in-season, down-and-then-(possibly)-up-aspect-at-the-end, is something I’d prefer to not have, or not anywhere close to this degree.
It makes it less enjoyable for the fans, probably less so for the coaches and team, and I would think, harder for the coaches and team to perform at their highest level.
One is very long but pretty much speaks for itself. One thing about Gibbons as head coach before is that the air was pretty much sucked out of the Cyclone program because of Gable at UI, and as the top college coach before Gable was no longer at the helm at ISU, Harold Nichols. UI was on top of the wrestling world then, pretty much alone by itself. I don’t know what would have happened otherwise, if Gibbons had stayed on; but having Bobby Douglas take over helped bring recruits in from all over the country.
*****
If KJ is let go, as for the need to keep any current staff and signed recruits together, I think that is largely contingent or a function of who you can get as replacement.
If we get a big big name it is less of an issue. For one, the recruits are more likely to want to stay. If not, and IMO this is more likely, I am concerned that a change might set the program back quite a bit if it doesn't work out. And we can all hope for the best -- and I like Prohm and Campbell -- but as people here are already saying, I am concerned that JP lacks the knowledge and experience in the area of wrestling coaches in particular, that for him to hire an untested candidate is a bit of a risk.
JP obviously should be in contact with Jim Gibbons for advice. Let me repeat, that is true in any case. I would go further and say that I would be perfectly fine if he were the next head coach.
I worked out a fairly often in college, and in Gibbons’s first year as head coach, 1986-87, I was rehabilitating a knee. On message boards and elsewhere, I have given Gibbons’ assistant [former Hawkeye] Ed Banach a great deal of credit for what I saw, sometimes on an almost daily basis, after practice in the steam room and sauna in Beyer -- Banach going through mental conditioning with team members that would result, though ISU also had great team, in a big upset to win the team title in 1987.
It was pretty cool -- but only in hindsight.
Probably no one outside of that Cyclone team thought anyone could beat the Hawks, who at the time had the most consecutive NCAA wrestling team titles in history, at nine. [Note: I thought that made them tied with Yale crew for the most in any sport; but looking online today, maybe I was thinking Yale golf, which had eight. So maybe nine is the most in any sport, with UI not tied with anyone else.]
Again, here I was, witnessing one of Gable’s top pupils interacting and conditioning these guys in the same space and likely the same manner Gable himself did when was at ISU.
I was aware of Gibbons and his brothers, both in high school and in college. But unlike Banach, who I saw all the time, I didn't see Gibbons’s input because I wasn't in the wrestling room.
When Gibbons started broadcasting wrestling meets I saw how knowledgeable he was, and not just that, but saw him as a master technician in the mold of his coach and the guy he got the head coaching job over, longtime ISU assistant Les Anderson. I am sure Gibbons had skills and knowledge of his own, independently, but it seems to me there is likely a great deal of overlap between his and Gable’s knowledge and understanding of technical aspects and Les Anderson’s. Jim is a great broadcaster in large part because of this knowledge.
I don’t know, and there are a lot of people knowledgeable of wrestling. But it is my impression that you might not find better proteges of Les Anderson than Jim Gibbons and Dan Gable.
Anyway, I long gave Ed Banach a great deal of credit for that 1987 title, and deservedly so, but because of what I had seen. I saw Gibbons maybe once. But I'm sure his impact was as great or surely greater. It was that kind of performance on the mat. ISU had some great wrestlers, but only won that title by everyone wrestling at a high level.
A few years later, Banach had issues because of past concussions, I think, and became an academic advisor, as a result. And Gibbons left for a better paying job.
A huge challenge at that time would have been recruiting, as most top Iowa HS wrestlers wanted to wrestle for Gable then. Coming from Arizona State, Bobby Douglas was able to bring in some top recruits from all over when he took over.
I don't know if Gibbons would be a fallback position, or a first choice, but I would certainly have no problem with it. Because Gibbons is older he probably wouldn’t be here forever; and if I were in JP’s position, I would certainly appreciate having someone so knowledgeable and trustworthy on staff. I don't want to say I don't trust JP to not mess this up. But I would, furthermore, feel more comfortable with someone more knowledgeable about about the sport on his staff, like Gibbons, who might help arrange a more certain and orderly transition when he left.
Anyway that is my two cents.
I don't think people can state with certainty, a hard and fast rule up front on retaining staff, recruits, and current team members, without a better idea who you might get, and what the prospective coach’s own needs and preferences are.
And FWIW, the comments above do not preclude a highly positive outcome inconsistent with my own preferences and opinions at this point.
---------
I wanted to add that there has been some pretty good discussion here lately, both in general and what is going on in meets, the specifics.
One thing I didn't used to like about seemingly underperforming during the season and then the opposite at the NCAA tournament (and this was pre-KJ), was dealing with all the negativity, there often all season long. One or two or more posters would regularly just post some negative comment and/or calling for a different coach with no indication that they even watched or were aware of what was going on, rather, just that ISU should have won more, or done better.
Cael’s senior year, for example, I believe Heskett and Holker also won titles, and ISU finished second to most everyone's surprise and enjoyment. The naysayers suddenly had nothing to say. They were virtually silent (not all, probably, but close). In the meantime, this naysaying (regularly) went on ALL season long on boards like this, virtually, until the very end.
Recruiting was my biggest concern, and if comments on message boards are not independent of such decisions, which I don’t believe they are (completely), that the naysayers’ opinions could be self-fulfilling, and their reasoning, circular.
But besides that the in-season, down-and-then-(possibly)-up-aspect-at-the-end, is something I’d prefer to not have, or not anywhere close to this degree.
It makes it less enjoyable for the fans, probably less so for the coaches and team, and I would think, harder for the coaches and team to perform at their highest level.
Good to hear. That's what I thought. He wouldn't know me though he might recognize me. I usually just do my thing anyway, even if just quiet meditation in the steam room/sauna besides loosening up, and I wouldn't have interrupted.
I do recall a relaxed, and ranked but relatively unheralded senior Bill Kelly, once turning ninety degrees to me, and making a funny comment in response something Banach said.
His pin in the finals over Penrith put ISU over the top.
I think this NY Times article is accessible:
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/22/sports/wrestling-iowa-state-dethrones-iowa.html
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Another thought...Why not ask Gable to assist or for his opinion? He's an alum and a better ISU is good for wrestling in Iowa. Yes, he is an all in Hawkeye but I think he would have the integrity to give it to the AD straight. Hell, half of the coaches in college are off of his tree.
I would guess that they will. He is still a CWC donor. He loves wrestling so much, I don't suspect there would be any foul play there.
I know many may not agree with this one but I really think Ryan Morningstar needs looked at from Iowa and he is nothing like the Brands. I talked to a buddy of mine that is really close to him and said he may even be able to poach a couple guys if it did happen. He has also proved that he can recruit really well and he did pretty well in Wisconsin. Not sure if he would leave Hawk country but I think it's worth a shot and needs looked at.
IMO, the top two names should be Kevin Dresser and Cary Kolat. Dresser is an Iowa native and has shown his ability to build a program. Kolat is just getting started at Campbell, but he's already shown vast improvement there and an ability to recruit nationwide. Both of these coaches have head coaching experience, which I think is a requirement for the ISU job.
