When did Hilton Magic Exist?

[dbronco7sc]

We always discuss "Is Hilton Magic Back???". But I don't think we can define if it currently exists without first defining when it previously existed. Only once we know what defined it originally can we make such a determination.

I'll admit that some of what I write in this post is sarcasm about common posts that I read on Cyclone Fanatic when the topic of Hilton Magic gets brought up. The thing that I really want to get out of this post, however, is for everyone to really think about the circumstances of when it 'previously existed' and make sure to use the same requirements when discussing if it exists now.

So when did Hilton Magic Exist?

--- "Back when I was in school"

On of my favorite responses from over the last 4 years. These posts usually come with more context, but the gist of it is everyone remembers things being better "back when they were younger" and the crowd now isn't the same. When you went to school, all of the students when to all of the games over breaks and games against lesser opponents. The fans were 15 decibels louder on average, and that's not just because you no longer sit in the student section.

--- "The Johnny Orr Years"

So when we went 13-15 , 10-18, and 12-19 in '86-87, '89-'90, and '90-'91 did Hilton Magic Exist? Or did it die a few times in between? (I didn't even list the first 3 years of losing seasons)

--- When the crowd recorded over 120 decibels at some point during the game.

Never seen a post like this... but people always talk about how loud the fans are in relation to Hilton Magic. If the fans are loud and the team wins... is it Hilton Magic... but if we're loud and we lose... is it not? Does the floor have to be shaking (do we need a seismograph to measure?) If this is the case... then did Hilton Magic only exist for certain games throughout the season?

--- "When our program was relevant on a National Scale"

So just 1999-2001?

--- During 20+ win seasons or Tournament Team Seasons.

Similar to above... defined on success. If the fans are loud and crazy but we still don't win enough games, then it didn't exist?

--- When the fans willed the team to victory against a tougher opponent at our home court

Can it not exist against lesser opponents? Do we only have Hilton Magic for certain home games, or is it defined for the whole season if we beat X number of better teams on our home court throughout the season?

--- When the general excitement about the basketball team is high and the fans feel like they have a good chance to beat any team in Hilton.

I'm a fan of this one. However, I feel like we have that excitement right now, but too many people say we don't have Hilton Magic back yet, so it probably can't be this one.

--- A time period that can't decide until a while after it has happened, because it's a collective whole of events. (Like This Post and This One)

I like this one too (see the link), but it means we can't determine whether it's back right now or not. 5 years down the road... people may or may not classify this year as a "Hilton Magic Year". Maybe players we beat go on to be NBA all stars, and we look back on how we beat that player on our home court.

--- When opposing coaches and players refered to Hilton as a 'feared place to play' and how "tough it is to get a win here".

This is somewhat vague... but is probably the one I consider most fitting. It probably fits into the catergory above however, as it takes a while for a place to build up such a reputation. That said, it becomes pointless to talk about Hilton Magic on a game by game basis whether it's back or not. If over the next few years opponents make such comments, then we'll say it was back, otherwise we wont? And are they saying it's tough to win here because our team is good, or because our fans our loud?


Probably a bigger question than the one in the poll...
Can Hilton Magic be existant on a game by game basis or does it have to be a time period in which it existed?

Older threads discuss specific games all of the time when referring to Hilton Magic. Whereas we always talk about it's existance as if it's a particular time period.

 

[cyfanatic13]

I think you are looking way too far into this.

 

[dbronco7sc]

I think you are looking way too far into this.

I'm bored today, but thank's for your opinion. I'll keep that in mind next time I try to participate in the Cyclone Community.

 

[theshadow]

1983 (Barry Stevens vs. MU) to 1995 (Fred/Julo/Meyer senior year).

"Magic" isn't necessary (or applicable) when you have a top-15 team. The whole point of "Magic" is that an average or slightly above average team was able to beat Top-5 teams at home, when on paper they should have been blown out of the gym.

Floyd's lethargic offense started to kill off the fringe. 52-49 was simply not as exciting as 86-82, even if the team was winning.

Fizer/Tinsley was not "Magic". That two-year run had nothing to do with "Magic". It was a great team destroying opponents on a nightly basis.

 

[Al_4_State]

Hilton Magic's last official appearance was the 2005 Iowa game. The return of Haluska.

From some point after Orr's third year until that point in time, we were generally a very tough team to beat at home. It was a period that spanned ~20 years and 4 coaches. There wasn't a single moment of Hilton Magic under McDermott. It will be back.

 

[enisthemenace]

The "magic" started with a win against Missouri long ago, and remained in existence until the start of the McDermott and CAC eras. We no longer have to deal with one of those factors. The other is still there. I don't blame the students, though, like some do. I just believe the CAC concept, segregating students from the rest of the fans, is a flawed concept.

 

[Al_4_State]

1983 (Barry Stevens vs. MU) to 1995 (Fred/Julo/Meyer senior year).

"Magic" isn't necessary (or applicable) when you have a top-15 team. The whole point of "Magic" is that an average or slightly above average team was able to beat Top-5 teams at home, when on paper they should have been blown out of the gym.

Fizer/Tinsley was not "Magic". That two-year run had nothing to do with "Magic". It was a great team destroying opponents on a nightly basis.

What do you call Wayne Morgan's first 2 years? We were undefeated at home in Big 12 play his first year with upsets over Kansas and Texas, and there were some incredible atmospheres during his tournament run in his second year. I remember overcoming a nearly 20 point deficit in front of a sold out crowd to beat Bobby Knight and TTU.

 

[HFCS]

2 words: last night

That's the important thing.

 

[CynadoAlley]

IMO, Everybody looks at the best times in their respective programs as being the winning years. We had a great stretch of winning basketball in the 90's-early 2000's. This (Im guessing) is what everybody looks at as the "Hilton Magic" years. Because the magic relates to winning.
Its unfortunate of course that the past few years have gone the way they have, and this is why people believe the magic is in the past. But as our program continues to build excitement and start to make winning and exciting basketball the norm in Ames, the magic will slowly but SURELY return.
But we have to remember, the magic hasnt gone anywhere.. its in the hearts of the cyclone nation.
it was merely in hibernation..
now we've awakened the sleeping beast

 

[CYdTracked]

Right now I wouldn't say "the magic is back" but it is starting to show signs of coming back. I think the last time it truly was present on a consistent basis was last under Eustachy. Every game during those Fizer and Tinsley years Hilton was packed to all corners and loud from start to finish, especially during conference games. We've seen some cameo appearances since then during some big games but when we can't even sellout Kansas this year (there were some noticeable sections of empty seats) and the student section can't even fill Cyclone Alley all the way to the top the very next game after a good showing against Kansas it's hard to proclaim that the magic is 'back" because many of us have heard Hilton MUCH louder than it has been the past 2 games.

 

[theshadow]

What do you call Wayne Morgan's first 2 years? We were undefeated at home in Big 12 play his first year with upsets over Kansas and Texas, and there were some incredible atmospheres during his tournament run in his second year. I remember overcoming a nearly 20 point deficit in front of a sold out crowd to beat Bobby Knight and TTU.

7-1 his first year (with Vroman/Homan in the post, Stinson/Blalock up top, and Sullivan on the wing), 5-3 his second.

Trailed by 14 against Texas Tech...in the first half.

Kansas was #15. Texas was #11.

There were also inexplicable losses to Colorado and Nebraska.

 

[theshadow]

Every game during those Fizer and Tinsley years Hilton was packed to all corners and loud from start to finish, especially during conference games.

1999-2000 season average: 10,543 (just under 75% of capacity)

 

[JimDogRock]

The Magic is a really hard thing to describe. To me, it's really just a feeling. It can come from the players, the crowd, or anything really. Basically, it's a feeling that the game will take care of itself. Knowing that we'll do what we must to make things happen whether it was a stop and transition bucket in 2000, forcing a turnover with our press in 2005, and so on. These moments were often followed by a timeout called by the visitors that wouldn't be noticed until their coach grabbed a ref by the neck to get his attention.

I haven't been to a lot of different venues, but the only other atmosphere that matched Hilton, when the place is rocking, was game 163 in 09 between the Tigers and Twins at the Metrodome. There was a magic that night that didn't allow me to believe for an instant that the Twins would not win.

 

[Al_4_State]

7-1 his first year (with Vroman/Homan in the post, Stinson/Blalock up top, and Sullivan on the wing), 5-3 his second.

Trailed by 14 against Texas Tech...in the first half.

Kansas was #15. Texas was #11.

There were also inexplicable losses to Colorado and Nebraska.

So how does that not qualify as part of Hilton Magic? That game against Texas, an 88% FT shooter (Boddicker?) bricked 2 shots at the end of the game because it was so damn loud.

We were very tough at home and had raucous crowds all the way from that Barry Stevens Missouri game until conference play in Morgan's last year.

 

[dualthreat]

7-1 his first year (with Vroman/Homan in the post, Stinson/Blalock up top, and Sullivan on the wing), 5-3 his second.

Trailed by 14 against Texas Tech...in the first half.

Kansas was #15. Texas was #11.

There were also inexplicable losses to Colorado and Nebraska.

i don't think "the magic" is considered beating EVERYONE at home, but rather beating ANYONE at home.

 

[enisthemenace]

What do you call Wayne Morgan's first 2 years? We were undefeated at home in Big 12 play his first year with upsets over Kansas and Texas, and there were some incredible atmospheres during his tournament run in his second year. I remember overcoming a nearly 20 point deficit in front of a sold out crowd to beat Bobby Knight and TTU.

Dammit...I tried to rep you here, but apparently I have to spread the love. This will have to do I guess. There was "magic" with every coach from Orr to Morgan. I see glimpses now, after a long hiatus.

 

[CYdTracked]

1999-2000 season average: 10,543 (just under 75% of capacity)

Any way to get a breakdown of the attendance by game? By conference season it was a lot harder to get good seats. I remember standing outside of Hilton at 7am for a 2pm Kansas game and apparently the line of students started sooner than that as it was already at the bottom of the stairs at the North entrance when we got there. If you wanted lower level seats you best be there when the doors opened for most games else you were going to be watching from the balcony. That's how popular that games were to students back then.

 

[cstrunk]

I was pretty sure it poked it's head around the corner last night. Baylor has better players than we do, but we played well as a TEAM and gave amazing effort. Hitting an insane amount of 3's helped. Isn't that magic?

 

[theshadow]

Any way to get a breakdown of the attendance by game? By conference season it was a lot harder to get good seats.

12,192 in conference play.

MU - 11,427
CU - 10,428
A&M - 9,709
KU - 14,092
KSU - 10,206
NU - 14,017
UT - 13,731
OSU - 14,092 (senior day/Johnny Orr tribute)

 

[CyForPresident]

It was last around during the 2004-05 season with Wayne Morgan. That was the year of the Virginia game and the second round NCAA loss to UNC. Since then, its been in hibernation. Every once in awhile it growls and rolls over, but ultimately goes back to sleep. It feels like the beast is stirring once again with a good chance it wakes up for good now.