What about Kentucky?

[DistrictCyclone]

No offense, but a couple of questions:

1. Why would UK or Vandy want to leave the SEC, a stable and lucrative home, for the unsettled situation in the Big 12?

2. If UK is interested in in a league that values BB, why wouldn't they turn to the ACC first? Clearly, they want to keep expanding too. And no matter how good the B12 is in BB, it will NEVER match the fan intensity of the ACC. With the exception of KU, nobody in the B12 values BB WAAAY above football.

3. What exactly IS the "profile" of an SEC team? How does it compare to the "profile" of a B12 team? Seems like there are lots of variations between both conferences.

4. How many schools can the B12 offer an invite to before it just starts to look desperate (reinforcing the whole "unstable" message)? "Never hurts to ask" doesn't really hold true when you're talking about expanding a conference.

Trust me...as a fan of a team that has done a lot of "courting" lately. :smile:

1. For the reasons I laid out in my original post. Read it.

2. If the ACC extends an invite, I'm sure they'd consider it. How's that germane to this conversation? Being a basketball school and a football school are not mutually exclusive; you don't have to value football more than basketball to have a good basketball program (in fact, with football being the cash cow for most athletic departments, the way to be a good basketball school is to be a good football school. Like Mark Emmert says: if you like basketball (or volleyball or women's golf or water polo), buy football tickets). But I don't think anyone in their right mind would say that the SEC edges out the Big 12 (or anyone) in terms of overall basketball quality. C-USA might even be better.

3. The typical SEC school is a large public university in the deep south with a rabid football fanbase that doesn't much care for basketball. The similarities end at being a large public university with Kentucky. I don't think the Big 12 has as much homogeneity as the SEC, which might be more welcoming to a school like Kentucky that (a lot like MU) has a split-personality, having both southern and northern traits. The Big 10 might even be the best fit for them, but they're standing pat. And if Louisville/Cincy/WVU came along for the ride, Kentucky would surely feel right at home.

4. The Big 12 hardly looks desperate, especially compared to the whacko contingency plans being assebmled by the Big East. We held pat after dropping down to 10, and every move since then has been to maintain that number. We're not expanding for expansion's sake, and we're not casting a large net with the schools we're considering. The only "reputation" issues we seem to have are with Missery, and they apprear to be using them more as a convenient excuse to get out of dodge than as real gripes. And even if "looking desperate" is the downside, I think that's a pretty good risk to reward ratio.

 

[WalkingCY]

I'm sold.

Get 'em!

 

[ricochet]

To claim UK as the only basketball school in the SEC is false due to the rise of Florida basketball. Truth.

Florida could win 10 basketball national titles in a row and they would still be a football school.

 

[DistrictCyclone]

You can respect the past and live in the now at the same time. Yes, UK has a strong tradition, but it is impossible to ignore the glaring fact that since 2000, Florida has been to 3 title games, winning two of them. Tradition has to star somewhere.

To claim UK as the only basketball school in the SEC is false due to the rise of Florida basketball. Truth.

This is true, and I agree that UF can (and has) put together some very solid basketball squads. They're not nearly as rabid about basketball in Gainesville as you'd expect given their recent successes, though. I've met many people who went to school there, and most of them couldn't care less about their basketball program; it's all about the football to them.

This is reflected in the attendance. UK had the highest attendance of any school last year (higher than Syracuse, who plays in a football stadium). Florida had less than Iowa. Iowa, for crying out loud.

If you include the 5 years prior to 2000, Kentucky has the same number of championship game appearances and titles as UF, so it's not like UK's some relic dinosaur program.

 

[CrossCyed]

Kentucky will leave for the Big 12 as soon as other SEC schools start leaving for the Big 12.

 

[Cyclophile1]

I'm not saying adding Vandy is some great idea, but couldn't you argue that they would be more valuable to the Big 12 than they are to the SEC? The SEC owns the Nashville area already with Tennessee. The Big 12 has no presence in that area, so even the smaller profile of Vandy would benefit the conference.

My sense is that it would make Vandy all the more irrelevant. Vandy doesn't deliver the Nashville market right now. I think you would have a hard time getting Nashville cable and satellite to buy as Big12 Network. About the only thing Vandy has going for it is the traditional regional games (not really rivalries) and concordant history and nostalgia of the SEC.

They are also the academic jewel and (I assume) NCAA violation-free poster child of the student-athlete that the SEC needs to tout for some reasonable claim that they aren't a semi-pro farm system for the NFL (which they are). Every conference needs ditch diggers (doormats) too and Vandy more or less conceded when they dissolved the AD. They are making bank and get to play elitist academic of the SEC - anything they do on the field/court is just gravy. Unlike virtually every other SEC school, my sense is that their identity as an institution is not tied up in their sports.

 

[Die4Cy]

No offense, but a couple of questions:

1. Why would UK or Vandy want to leave the SEC, a stable and lucrative home, for the unsettled situation in the Big 12?

2. If UK is interested in in a league that values BB, why wouldn't they turn to the ACC first? Clearly, they want to keep expanding too. And no matter how good the B12 is in BB, it will NEVER match the fan intensity of the ACC. With the exception of KU, nobody in the B12 values BB WAAAY above football.

3. What exactly IS the "profile" of an SEC team? How does it compare to the "profile" of a B12 team? Seems like there are lots of variations between both conferences.

4. How many schools can the B12 offer an invite to before it just starts to look desperate (reinforcing the whole "unstable" message)? "Never hurts to ask" doesn't really hold true when you're talking about expanding a conference.

Trust me...as a fan of a team that has done a lot of "courting" lately. :smile:

1. As soon as MU is gone, the Big 12 will no longer have any stability issues. Why don't you guys help us out and get lost already? And the SEC is NOT a significantly more lucrative place to call home. It actually may be less lucrative over the medium term--their contracts are not renewable until 2025--a figurative lifetime in college sports--while the Big 12 gets their crack at big TV money in just 4 years. You are aware that the SEC's network partners have said that they will not re-open negotiations on the TV deal beyond guaranteeing new teams a similar payout, right?

2. The question isn't whether the Big 12 values basketball more than the ACC. It's whether the the Big 12 values basketball more than the SEC. And I think that is unquestionable when one looks at the level of fan support in those arenas league wide.

3. I agree with you that "profiles" for schools vary across a conference, even state to state. But Kentucky's strengths are not the SEC's strengths, particularly in football, and their lack of development in that area over time may indicate they are different in that regard than other SEC schools.

4. How many conferences can Missouri offer themselves to before it just starts to look desperate (reinforcing the whole "unstable" message)? "Never hurts to ask" doesn't really hold true when you're talking about leaving a conference. Last time I checked, Missouri is the only school to have been rejected in this process. Clearly, these things need to be advanced privately, and not in public--something MU learned rather painfully, I think. No one is suggesting this proposed addition is realistic, but then again neither is MU's potential for success in the SEC and that's likely to happen.