Realignment Megathread (All The Moves)

[FinalFourCy]

Wazzu and Oregon State attendance went UP. Fans are more engaged when their teams are playing peers in competitive games.

That’s disingenuous. They didn’t go up. Both down from their 2023 marks.

Regardless, it’s very early, and not comparable to the situation being alluded to.

Would UNI have more or less fans attending games right now if invited to Big 12 thirty years ago?

 

[FinalFourCy]

The P2 isn't authoring solutions for the unfair competitive model in college sports. They like it unfair and want to keep it unfair. No irony there.

Levine has taken advantage of an unfair competitive model in MLB without ever moving to change it, but is now working to change the unfair competitive model in college sports. Lots of irony there.

They are actively lobbying against the solution. Both hypothetical and ironic

Meanwhile, Levine has no previous material impact on college athletics. It’s not ironic, and far more a neutral arbitrator than P2

 

[Al_4_State]

That’s disingenuous. They didn’t go up. Both down from their 2023 marks.

Regardless, it’s very early, and not comparable to the situation being alluded to.

Would UNI have more or less fans attending games right now if invited to Big 12 thirty years ago?

Or maybe the better example would be if the rest of the major FCS programs banded together and told UNI they had to go DII.

Instead of hosting SDSU or SIU in football or Drake in hoops, they were hosting Upper Iowa and Winona State. What's the attendance look like then? I'm sure the folks who own bars downtown Cedar Falls would be thrilled. There'd be no effect whatsover.

 

[FinalFourCy]

Or maybe the better example would be if the rest of the major FCS programs banded together and told UNI they had to go DII.

Instead of hosting SDSU or SIU in football or Drake in hoops, they were hosting Upper Iowa and Winona State. What's the attendance look like then? I'm sure the folks who own bars downtown Cedar Falls would be thrilled. There'd be no effect whatsover.

On one hand, when you’re at the bottom, you can’t really fall.

If UNI no longer had football, regardless of whether one thinks that’s likely, it would negatively impact Cedar Falls

So it’s just a question of how much relegation is needed for large losses in fan spending. Given how little fan engagement occurs at schools already not at highest level, one can assume it’s is a big blow. Arguably more when it comes from formal relegation, provoking the feelings of losing out, rather than when never having belonged

If further pushed down, keeping TJ is unlikely. It’s a cascading effect. Playing in level between FCS and P2 would be a minor draw, with an upside in fan engagement similar to American and Mountain West programs, but likely less due to the loss factor

 

[Kinch]

The loss of no football games in Iowa City in 2020 was devastating. It has been reported that the Big 10’s decision was reported to cost $110 million in Johnson County. (Not incuding the $50 million welfare check the squawks got). Here is an anecdotal story at what was supposed to be the beginning of the season.

Local businesses feeling the effects of no Iowa football games

Hawkeye football isn’t scheduled to take place this fall, and local businesses are feeling the financial effects. On Aug. 11, The Big Ten Conference confirmed what sports fans across the country had feared for months. Fall athletics, including football, would be postponed because of COVID-19...

dailyiowan.com

 

[bphill4isu]

Did you even read the article?

Comparing Pac12 TV revenue from 12 teams and a game inventory of 54 conference games vs. a 2 team conference playing 2 conference games- against each other!!

The reality, the demise of the Pac12 was a financial win for 10 teams!

No, it was a financial net gain for only four former Pac 12 members USC, and UCLA (full share) Oregon and Washington (half share ending this year). Everyone else in that league was a net neutral or fell a bit in total media revenue. It was survival for Stanford, Cal, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, and Colorado. In fact, Stanford and Cal do not receive full shares until year 10 of their membership and are giving up 67% of their media contract for the first seven years.

 

[isucy86]

Another message board genius post.

OK enlightened one. What from that article made it worth writing (and linking)?

Pretty funny some Cyclone are crying-a-river for Oregon State & Washington State. But couple things:

1. If those two schools getting left-behind was such a bad thing, why wasn't there an uproar within those two states to tie both state schools together in realignment? Or at least do what California legislators did and make UCLA pay Cal. Sure it was more of a symbolic gesture, but at to least it looked like they cared!
2. So what was WSU & OSU reaction? They go and blow-up the Mountain West Conference. I don't hear anyone lamenting what's happening to the MWC.

If Iowa State has loyal fans, we'll be just fine whether there is a P2, P4 or whatever the future holds.

 

[1UNI2ISU]

I'm talking about breaking away and creating a separate division that excludes a bunch of programs that have always played at the highest level.

I'd have to imagine there are a lot of businesses in Corvallis, OR and Pullman, WA that would view it differently than you.

I totally get what you're saying. I just really struggle with forcing conferences to include teams or changing the law to make sure athletic departments get to hang at the level they're at when everything below the power level has been dealing with the same thing for years and nobody gave a **** until the right laundry was impacted.

 

[Gonzo]

They are actively lobbying against the solution. Both hypothetical and ironic

Meanwhile, Levine has no previous material impact on college athletics. It’s not ironic, and far more a neutral arbitrator than P2

 

[FinalFourCy]

I totally get what you're saying. I just really struggle with forcing conferences to include teams or changing the law to make sure athletic departments get to hang at the level they're at when everything below the power level has been dealing with the same thing for years and nobody gave a **** until the right laundry was impacted.

It’s not forcing conferences to include teams. It’s locking in status quo. Huge win for P2, although it does limit their ability, or freedom, in their words, to further hurt others

Status quo does eliminate the dream of promotion, but in reality that was shut anyway for G level and below.

Previous wrongs or not caring isn’t a good reason to be against the bill.

I’m not a fan of the bill as I think PE backed solutions and employment better for M level, but let’s be accurate on what it’s doing

 

[Kinch]

OK enlightened one. What from that article made it worth writing (and linking)?

Pretty funny some Cyclone are crying-a-river for Oregon State & Washington State. But couple things:

1. If those two schools getting left-behind was such a bad thing, why wasn't there an uproar within those two states to tie both state schools together in realignment? Or at least do what California legislators did and make UCLA pay Cal. Sure it was more of a symbolic gesture, but at to least it looked like they cared!
2. So what was WSU & OSU reaction? They go and blow-up the Mountain West Conference. I don't hear anyone lamenting what's happening to the MWC.

If Iowa State has loyal fans, we'll be just fine whether there is a P2, P4 or whatever the future holds.

Loyal Iowa State fans weren’t exactly thrilled that we lost $20 million more for the PACs demise on top of OuT and then found out that money basically went into the pockets of the Big 10s TV partners. Your post was not a very smart take IMHO. I would be 1000 times more concerned with what Greg and Tony are doing than what OSU did.

 

[FinalFourCy]

OK enlightened one. What from that article made it worth writing (and linking)?

Pretty funny some Cyclone are crying-a-river for Oregon State & Washington State. But couple things:

1. If those two schools getting left-behind was such a bad thing, why wasn't there an uproar within those two states to tie both state schools together in realignment? Or at least do what California legislators did and make UCLA pay Cal. Sure it was more of a symbolic gesture, but at to least it looked like they cared!
2. So what was WSU & OSU reaction? They go and blow-up the Mountain West Conference. I don't hear anyone lamenting what's happening to the MWC.

If Iowa State has loyal fans, we'll be just fine whether there is a P2, P4 or whatever the future holds.

That’s a tremendous amount of sand in your mouth

 

[1SEIACLONE]

OK enlightened one. What from that article made it worth writing (and linking)?

Pretty funny some Cyclone are crying-a-river for Oregon State & Washington State. But couple things:

1. If those two schools getting left-behind was such a bad thing, why wasn't there an uproar within those two states to tie both state schools together in realignment? Or at least do what California legislators did and make UCLA pay Cal. Sure it was more of a symbolic gesture, but at to least it looked like they cared!
2. So what was WSU & OSU reaction? They go and blow-up the Mountain West Conference. I don't hear anyone lamenting what's happening to the MWC.

If Iowa State has loyal fans, we'll be just fine whether there is a P2, P4 or whatever the future holds.

ISU has a very loyal fan base, but like any fan base, the bigger the game and the bigger the team they are playing, the higher the ticket prices and the larger the crowd. To even suggest that any school could drop down and keep its attendance at what it was before they dropped is silly.

 

[FinalFourCy]

ISU has a very loyal fan base, but like any fan base, the bigger the game and the bigger the team they are playing, the higher the ticket prices and the larger the crowd. To even suggest that any school could drop down and keep its attendance at what it was before they dropped is silly.

It’s cope

 

[Kinch]

OK enlightened one. What from that article made it worth writing (and linking)?

Pretty funny some Cyclone are crying-a-river for Oregon State & Washington State. But couple things:

1. If those two schools getting left-behind was such a bad thing, why wasn't there an uproar within those two states to tie both state schools together in realignment? Or at least do what California legislators did and make UCLA pay Cal. Sure it was more of a symbolic gesture, but at to least it looked like they cared!
2. So what was WSU & OSU reaction? They go and blow-up the Mountain West Conference. I don't hear anyone lamenting what's happening to the MWC.

If Iowa State has loyal fans, we'll be just fine whether there is a P2, P4 or whatever the future holds.

You are right in this sense. Making UCLA Pay a half share over a three year period is an empty, symbolic gesture.

 

[isucy86]

No, it was a financial net gain for only four former Pac 12 members USC, and UCLA (full share) Oregon and Washington (half share ending this year). Everyone else in that league was a net neutral or fell a bit in total media revenue. It was survival for Stanford, Cal, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, and Colorado. In fact, Stanford and Cal do not receive full shares until year 10 of their membership and are giving up 67% of their media contract for the first seven years.

View attachment 171546
View attachment 171547

Check out individual school report cards from Knight Commission.

EVERY Pac 12 school that joined Big12 had higher media rights/tournament monies as a Big12 member vs. their last year in the Pac 12.

• ASU +$14.8M
• UA +$6.3M
• UU +$6.1M
• CU +$7.9M

And that doesn't include ticket, donor revenues that bumped up going from Pac12 to Big12

Info isn't out their on revenues for Stanford. But yes Cal dropped $6.3M in TV/Tournament money. But they also saw ticket, donor revenue offset the loss of TV revenue. Plus they saw a huge infusion of institution support.

 

[1SEIACLONE]

Check out individual school report cards from Knight Commission.

EVERY Pac 12 school that joined Big12 had higher media rights/tournament monies as a Big12 member vs. their last year in the Pac 12.

• ASU +$14.8M
• UA +$6.3M
• UU +$6.1M
• CU +$7.9M

And that doesn't include ticket, donor revenues that bumped up going from Pac12 to Big12

Info isn't out their on revenues for Stanford. But yes Cal dropped $6.3M in TV/Tournament money. But they also saw ticket, donor revenue offset the loss of TV revenue. Plus they saw a huge infusion of institution support.

That doesn't surprise me, the Pac 12 had a horrible media deal, and for years had been the last conference dolling out dollars to their member schools. Just overall a poorly run conference, stuck in the past, with lots of schools playing football that even their own fans bases would not show up and support.

 

[Kinch]

Check out individual school report cards from Knight Commission.

EVERY Pac 12 school that joined Big12 had higher media rights/tournament monies as a Big12 member vs. their last year in the Pac 12.

• ASU +$14.8M
• UA +$6.3M
• UU +$6.1M
• CU +$7.9M

And that doesn't include ticket, donor revenues that bumped up going from Pac12 to Big12

Info isn't out their on revenues for Stanford. But yes Cal dropped $6.3M in TV/Tournament money. But they also saw ticket, donor revenue offset the loss of TV revenue. Plus they saw a huge infusion of institution support.

Now include the increased transportation costs for each school.

 

[isucy86]

ISU has a very loyal fan base, but like any fan base, the bigger the game and the bigger the team they are playing, the higher the ticket prices and the larger the crowd. To even suggest that any school could drop down and keep its attendance at what it was before they dropped is silly.

So you're saying you won't support Iowa State if it doesn't play Iowa or Texas or Oklahoma? Did our ticket prices drop when OU & UT left the conference.

The Cyclone's schedule will still include current Big 12 teams. If P2 becomes the reality, then a number of ACC schools will also become schools Iowa State plays.

If football attendance drops, not the end of the world. We'll still have 50k loyal fans in JT. And Jamie (and every other Athlectic Director in the Big12/ACC) will adjust our budget to reflect the new revenue level. It's not like more money means more profit to give back to the ISU General Fund. Iowa State Athletics will be just fine.

 

[1SEIACLONE]

So you're saying you won't support Iowa State if it doesn't play Iowa or Texas or Oklahoma? Did our ticket prices drop when OU & UT left the conference.

The Cyclone's schedule will still include current Big 12 teams. If P2 becomes the reality, then a number of ACC schools will also become schools Iowa State plays.

If football attendance drops, not the end of the world. We'll still have 50k loyal fans in JT. And Jamie (and every other Athlectic Director in the Big12/ACC) will adjust our budget to reflect the new revenue level. It's not like more money means more profit to give back to the ISU General Fund. Iowa State Athletics will be just fine.

That is not what I said, but if you think people are going to line up to watch MAC level and MW level schools then you are crazy. Yes, it's going to hurt if attendance levels drop, it was not all that long ago when ISU was averaging in the 40s for football each game and getting to 50K was a dream. This idea that playing Utah State is going to have people clamoring for tickets when they are used to playing larger schools is found only in your head.