Quarterback Situation

Not really sure what to add here. On one hand, I'm always a believer in trusting in the coaches. If Mangino is half the coach most of the people on here expect him to be then you have to believe that right now Rohach is the best option. If not, then he wouldn't have came out of spring ball listed as #1. I've seen some people speculate that maybe there is something more to the depth chart listing... Like maybe the coaches are trying to send a message. I think that's stupid. The only message they are trying to send is who is the most deserving of the starting spot at this point in time. The coaches see these guys 100x more than fans do. To suggest it should be Richardson and not Rohach when the coaches currently have it the other way around is kind of ridiculous.

Now on the other hand, part of me has always thought Lanning would be the most intriguing option. We kind of know what Rohach and Richardson are going to provide. Average quarterback play is probably the best you can expect out of them, and I think that's a fair thing to say. Neither one of them is going to light it up. Lanning's running ability and strong arm could provide a different dimension to the offense. Rohach and Richardson can run, but they aren't big enough to handle the abuse. Lanning should be able to run and deliver the blow. That style could be a nice mix when combined with the quick burst style RB's in Nealy and Wimberley.
 
Not really sure what to add here. On one hand, I'm always a believer in trusting in the coaches. If Mangino is half the coach most of the people on here expect him to be then you have to believe that right now Rohach is the best option. If not, then he wouldn't have came out of spring ball listed as #1. I've seen some people speculate that maybe there is something more to the depth chart listing... Like maybe the coaches are trying to send a message. I think that's stupid. The only message they are trying to send is who is the most deserving of the starting spot at this point in time. The coaches see these guys 100x more than fans do. To suggest it should be Richardson and not Rohach when the coaches currently have it the other way around is kind of ridiculous.

Now on the other hand, part of me has always thought Lanning would be the most intriguing option. We kind of know what Rohach and Richardson are going to provide. Average quarterback play is probably the best you can expect out of them, and I think that's a fair thing to say. Neither one of them is going to light it up. Lanning's running ability and strong arm could provide a different dimension to the offense. Rohach and Richardson can run, but they aren't big enough to handle the abuse. Lanning should be able to run and deliver the blow. That style could be a nice mix when combined with the quick burst style RB's in Nealy and Wimberley.

I don't see these guys in the film room, in practice, or other things...all I have is game footage (and of course we all can speculate was Sam too banged up, was the line the problem, etc). BUT, I do know that Mangino is a great coach and the system we are running is his and he will know what will work best....and that may mean a guy like Lanning emerges as he "gets it" better than the other two....or, Grant may...we just don't know. And, variables change...the line may be better/worse....if worse, then quick decisions are better than progressions, etc. I DO know it appears we have a stacked receiving group and we need the ball in their hands.
 
Actually, I don't get this equation. At the end of 2012, Sam played a good game against Kansas, but they were god awful. He did what he needed to do, but a good game against Kansas does not make one a good QB. Against WVU, yes the wind was bad, but at the end of the day 13/31 accuracy just doesn't cut it. WVU also had a pretty bad defense. Remember, this is the WVU team that gave up 70 to Baylor that year. He does a good job not throwing INTs and not fumbling, but it's about the same ability as Barnett. I think it is a stretch to call him an above average runner. I don't think his running ability is any better than Jantz or Barnett.




I totally agree that his ankle injury impacted his ability to play QB in 2013. While being fully aware of this constraint, I just didn't see anything last year to indicate he will be a good QB.



A lot of QBs would look good with a good OC, a good OL, a running game, and confidence. I have no doubt Sam is one of those QBs. If we have this, I have no doubt any of our QBs will have success. Also, I understand the issues the offense had and the poor environment Sam was in, but I can only go by what happened on the field. From what I have seen, I would be surprised if he turned out to be good. I would be happy to be wrong, and it's far from impossible from happening, but I'm not expecting it.

What I am saying is that it all starts with the OL in any offense. People say, well hell, any QB can beat WV or KS....the other part of the equation here is that the OL gave our QB's TIME to throw in those games (KS a WHOLE lot of time due to their DL not getting any footing on the frozen tundra and hence no pressure). A QB, any QB, should throw the ball all around the lot when you have 5-6 seconds in the pocket to throw and wait for a guy to get open. Against the tougher teams on our schedule, including UNI, our OL broke completely down on more occasions than not, and SR had to run for his life...he had no other choice unless you are all ok with him laying down and taking a sack, which he didn't do. In all those tougher games, (OU, K State, OSU) our OL also did not produce any holes for our RB's to run in. When you are consistently in 2nd and 3rd Down and 7-8-12 yards, the defense knows you are not going to attempt a run (because you haven't run effectively all day) they Blitz all day long and your offense becomes one dimensional. The OL last year could not consistently pass protect or open running lanes. A good running game is a QB's best friend (see Arnaud-ARob years). If you can run the ball consistently, then you keep the defense guessing at to what is coming next, then add up tempo, keep the opposing DL gasping for air and the snowball effect occurs and most QB's get on a roll in that situation. We never got to that point last year, in any game I can remember, but that is what good Big 12 offenses do to opposing defenses.

I'm not sure what the OL coaches teach now, but when I was playing 20 years ago, our coaches wanted their guys to block for 4 seconds straight without breaking down. If any QB is given that time consistently, they can set their feet, scan the field and many times read their progressions to varying extents, depending on the play call. When your line only gives you 0-2 seconds, you haven't even set your feet yet in the pocket (because there is NO pocket), your eyes come down instead of scanning the field and basically are running for your life at that point. Again, with a consistent running game, it gives the QB so many more options to call all kinds of plays, it opens the playbook. I laugh when hearing that SR doesn't scan the field or pick out his 2nd or 3rd receiver....that's hysterical because last year, he didn't have time to pick out his first option on many plays.

So, the equation, if you will, is getting time from the OL for the QB to set up in the pocket, which takes at least 3 seconds, preferably 4 so that QB can actually do his job. Anything less than 3 seconds is disaster for any QB, unless it is a quick hit play like a slant or bubble screen. It is also about the OL getting the Running game going, neither of which occurred last year with the exception of 2-3 games against weaker teams. Now if the QB has that 4 second amount of time and is missing his throws, then it's on the QB, plain and simple. The thing about SR is that to me, he has proven in 2012 that he is very accurate, when HEALTHY, an excellent runner and knew WHEN to take off. So my point is, I know he can do it because I saw him do it. He did it in his first appearance on the road at KS, in horrible windy weather vs. WV he kept the chains moving in that game in 30 MPH winds. 13/31 is pretty damn good in those conditions. He made good decisions and did not turn the ball over much.

The challenge for him this year is to regain TRUST/CONFIDENCE in his OL and to keep his eyes downfield and not down/flush and run, because last year, he was a sitting duck. He got KILLED because of his ankle injury, which limits your running and throwing ability, so for SR throw last year out the window as he was injured in the FIRST game vs, UNI. I know the OL was injured but it was the worst year of OL play I have seen at ISU since I began watching in 1987. I am confident they will be better and the playcalling will be much better. But the bottom line, is, we need much better OL play and if we get that, the rest will follow. Calling out the QB's when they were set up for murder last year, is not fair to that position group, IMO. I would say the same for the Running Backs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stormin
IMO, it is pretty obvious that Rohach is #1 going into the fall. Rohach showed a lot of moxie in leading the Clones to a come from behind victory in OT @ West Virginia. That was a great win and he made some great plays. Give him some credit as credit is due.

As far as the ISU program is concerned, even though last year was not good record wise, we still have enthusiasm. The Mangino hire was a good one. And the people he brought in with him will help immensely. There is a plan. The stadium expansion and other facility improvements are impressing recruits and creating a buzz of excitement. For those saying that our recruiting is suffering, they really have no idea of what is going on. We are in on some very good recruits. All in all, we are improving, despite last year's record. Those saying otherwise have no idea how bad things have been in the past.
 
What I am saying is that it all starts with the OL in any offense. People say, well hell, any QB can beat WV or KS....the other part of the equation here is that the OL gave our QB's TIME to throw in those games (KS a WHOLE lot of time due to their DL not getting any footing on the frozen tundra and hence no pressure). A QB, any QB, should throw the ball all around the lot when you have 5-6 seconds in the pocket to throw and wait for a guy to get open. Against the tougher teams on our schedule, including UNI, our OL broke completely down on more occasions than not, and SR had to run for his life...he had no other choice unless you are all ok with him laying down and taking a sack, which he didn't do. In all those tougher games, (OU, K State, OSU) our OL also did not produce any holes for our RB's to run in. When you are consistently in 2nd and 3rd Down and 7-8-12 yards, the defense knows you are not going to attempt a run (because you haven't run effectively all day) they Blitz all day long and your offense becomes one dimensional. The OL last year could not consistently pass protect or open running lanes. A good running game is a QB's best friend (see Arnaud-ARob years). If you can run the ball consistently, then you keep the defense guessing at to what is coming next, then add up tempo, keep the opposing DL gasping for air and the snowball effect occurs and most QB's get on a roll in that situation. We never got to that point last year, in any game I can remember, but that is what good Big 12 offenses do to opposing defenses.

I'm not sure what the OL coaches teach now, but when I was playing 20 years ago, our coaches wanted their guys to block for 4 seconds straight without breaking down. If any QB is given that time consistently, they can set their feet, scan the field and many times read their progressions to varying extents, depending on the play call. When your line only gives you 0-2 seconds, you haven't even set your feet yet in the pocket (because there is NO pocket), your eyes come down instead of scanning the field and basically are running for your life at that point. Again, with a consistent running game, it gives the QB so many more options to call all kinds of plays, it opens the playbook. I laugh when hearing that SR doesn't scan the field or pick out his 2nd or 3rd receiver....that's hysterical because last year, he didn't have time to pick out his first option on many plays.

So, the equation, if you will, is getting time from the OL for the QB to set up in the pocket, which takes at least 3 seconds, preferably 4 so that QB can actually do his job. Anything less than 3 seconds is disaster for any QB, unless it is a quick hit play like a slant or bubble screen. It is also about the OL getting the Running game going, neither of which occurred last year with the exception of 2-3 games against weaker teams. Now if the QB has that 4 second amount of time and is missing his throws, then it's on the QB, plain and simple. The thing about SR is that to me, he has proven in 2012 that he is very accurate, when HEALTHY, an excellent runner and knew WHEN to take off. So my point is, I know he can do it because I saw him do it. He did it in his first appearance on the road at KS, in horrible windy weather vs. WV he kept the chains moving in that game in 30 MPH winds. 13/31 is pretty damn good in those conditions. He made good decisions and did not turn the ball over much.

The challenge for him this year is to regain TRUST/CONFIDENCE in his OL and to keep his eyes downfield and not down/flush and run, because last year, he was a sitting duck. He got KILLED because of his ankle injury, which limits your running and throwing ability, so for SR throw last year out the window as he was injured in the FIRST game vs, UNI. I know the OL was injured but it was the worst year of OL play I have seen at ISU since I began watching in 1987. I am confident they will be better and the playcalling will be much better. But the bottom line, is, we need much better OL play and if we get that, the rest will follow. Calling out the QB's when they were set up for murder last year, is not fair to that position group, IMO. I would say the same for the Running Backs.

This thread is entertaining to read, but WOW, it sure seems to spell out DOOM for the upcoming season. When there isn't any sense of consensus from an adoring fan base as to whom should be the starting QB coming out of spring practices, it really is concerning. Candidly, none of the QBs looked very good in the spring game. We all know it. Apparently, no QBs emerged as the definite selection from the Spring practices or Mangino would have named...his guy...his leader.

Mangino's offenses call for quick decision making, short possession passing that open up the run game and down field shots. None of these 3 QBs scream Mangino templates to me (and for that matter, neither does Hodge or DLC). I suppose SR is the closest, but if his confidence is riddled (as stated here) then he is suspect too. Lots of speculation on Lanning. No doubt he has a great build and a huge arm, but a 50% completion guy from high school and the need for quick reads of the defense - he just doesn't sound like a Mangino guy.

Ugh, I feel a 2-10 coming...
 
IMO, it is pretty obvious that Rohach is #1 going into the fall. Rohach showed a lot of moxie in leading the Clones to a come from behind victory in OT @ West Virginia. That was a great win and he made some great plays. Give him some credit as credit is due.

Yeah, those four turnovers he forced in the second half sure were impressive. That strip he had with a few minutes left to set up the tieing TD was especially impressive. That string of consecutive 3-outs to start the game also really impressed me. As did his interception thrown from the 6 yard line.

I'm not trying to rag on Rohach here. I'm just pointing out that it is preposterous to put everything on the QB when it was really West Virginia completely disintegrating in the second half that allowed us to come back and win it in overtime, not heroics by our quarterback. If anyone deserves the credit for that win it is our defense for staying with it after going down 31-7.
 
Last edited:
24/27, 250 yards, 4 TD's, 40 rushing yards and a rushing TD. Those were SR's numbers from the KU game in 2012. That shows promise. I don't care if the opponent was a high school team. And if GR or JL beat him out, more power to them. I just think the ingredients are right for a QB to be able to step up and play top half of the conference level at the QB position. We haven't seen that in a long time.
 
This thread is entertaining to read, but WOW, it sure seems to spell out DOOM for the upcoming season. When there isn't any sense of consensus from an adoring fan base as to whom should be the starting QB coming out of spring practices, it really is concerning. Candidly, none of the QBs looked very good in the spring game. We all know it. Apparently, no QBs emerged as the definite selection from the Spring practices or Mangino would have named...his guy...his leader.

Mangino's offenses call for quick decision making, short possession passing that open up the run game and down field shots. None of these 3 QBs scream Mangino templates to me (and for that matter, neither does Hodge or DLC). I suppose SR is the closest, but if his confidence is riddled (as stated here) then he is suspect too. Lots of speculation on Lanning. No doubt he has a great build and a huge arm, but a 50% completion guy from high school and the need for quick reads of the defense - he just doesn't sound like a Mangino guy.

Ugh, I feel a 2-10 coming...

I am more optimistic than what maybe my thread portrayed. Last year and this year are a WHOLE different mindset with a capable OC at the helm. When I say that, our record may or may not be much better, but I am pretty confident our offense will possess the ball longer than last year, sustain more drives and we have a very good kicker in Netten who, in a razor thin margin of error game (and we have many of those on the schedule that we COULD win), then I think it sets up for an exciting season. The magic question will be if we score more points and how we produce in the red zone?

Our OL will be healthier, have more experience and depth, and MUCH better coaching/attitude. I don't know who MM will pick for QB, and I will only trust what comes from MM and CPR here, and I think they are playing it close to the vest for competitive reasons. They may already know who is 1-2-3 but I don't expect them to share it with us anytime soon so as to not tip off NDSU. That is a critical game for our program and year. A game we should win, but a lot of NEW moving parts on Defense need to gel quickly. I am taking a wait and see attitude and am already stoked about the season starting. The schedule is definitely top half loaded, so be patient, I think we will finish the year strong and if we can beat NDSU and upset K State or Iowa, the sky is the limit!
 
Yeah, those four turnovers he forced in the second half sure were impressive. That strip he had with a few minutes left to set up the tieing TD was especially impressive. That string of consecutive 3-outs to start the game also really impressed me. As did his interception thrown from the 6 yard line.

I'm not trying to rag on Rohach here. I'm just pointing out that it is preposterous to put everything on the QB when it was really West Virginia completely disintegrating in the second half that allowed us to come back and win it in overtime, not heroics by our quarterback. If anyone deserves the credit for that win it is our defense for staying with it after going down 31-7.

Sounds like ragging.

Even though we got the ball we still needed to score. And Rohach led our offense to those scores to tie it up. It was a combination of heroics by our defense and our offense, including the play of our QB, that led to that win.

We don't score, we lose, despite those takeaways. And while you rag on Rohach, why not rag on Cole Netten for missing a FG and getting a chip shot 28 yarder blocked. And don't forget Wimberly's fumble which led to a Mountaineer TD as well.

The thing you are missing is that despite not playing well earlier in the game, Rohach did come back and overcame those mistakes and led us to victory. That shows moxie.
 
24/27, 250 yards, 4 TD's, 40 rushing yards and a rushing TD. Those were SR's numbers from the KU game in 2012. That shows promise. I don't care if the opponent was a high school team. And if GR or JL beat him out, more power to them. I just think the ingredients are right for a QB to be able to step up and play top half of the conference level at the QB position. We haven't seen that in a long time.
Can't believe people are still using that game as a reason for Sam to start
 
Can't believe people are still using that game as a reason for Sam to start

You don't put up a stat line like that without having an underlying talent level. It's really not that complicated.

Plus, I wasn't making the case he should start. I'm making the case that the talent level is there.
 
Last edited:
Things aren't rosy here but sky isn't falling either.

Even with a non-existent o-line, an injured starting QB, a defense that gave up way too many yards, and an incompetent offensive coordinator last year, we won 3 games and were 2 plays from winning 5 games (Texas and TCU)

As Rhoads always says, things are never as good or as bad as they seem.
 
Pretty sure a lot of posters on here could throw for 150 yards on that Kansas team.

Our starting QB that game sure was laying a Big Egg while he was playing. So I really don't understand the rationale behind saying that "anyone" could have done it. That was NOT what was happening while Steele Jantz was playing.
 
Can't believe people are still using that game as a reason for Sam to start

Has more to do with what he is capable of when Healthy AND has Time to throw. Lot better debut than many other QB's we've trotted out there! Also played very well vs. WV on a crappy day. Has nothing to do with whether he starts this year, just what he is capable of, but too many knee jerk "blame the QB's types" on here want to blame the QB, not matter how bad the OL is. Crazy.
 
This thread is entertaining to read, but WOW, it sure seems to spell out DOOM for the upcoming season. When there isn't any sense of consensus from an adoring fan base as to whom should be the starting QB coming out of spring practices, it really is concerning. Candidly, none of the QBs looked very good in the spring game. We all know it. Apparently, no QBs emerged as the definite selection from the Spring practices or Mangino would have named...his guy...his leader.

Mangino's offenses call for quick decision making, short possession passing that open up the run game and down field shots. None of these 3 QBs scream Mangino templates to me (and for that matter, neither does Hodge or DLC). I suppose SR is the closest, but if his confidence is riddled (as stated here) then he is suspect too. Lots of speculation on Lanning. No doubt he has a great build and a huge arm, but a 50% completion guy from high school and the need for quick reads of the defense - he just doesn't sound like a Mangino guy.

Ugh, I feel a 2-10 coming...

I agree with what DDcy is saying. With a good OL and running game any of these guys would look a lot better. It is the coaches job to figure out who gives them the best shot at winning. With a new QB coach and OC it may take a little time. Really don't know why everyone gets so freaked out or predicts utter doom based on the limited information that is actually available to fans.
 
I remember Mangino's comments he made when hired. "We are not starting from scratch." "We need a remodeling job."

We have some talent and Mangino knows how to use it.
 

Latest posts

Help Support Us

Become a patron