Prohm Defenders

[ISUChippewa]

I think anyone who has followed or read my posts during basketball season knows that I had been a big and passionate defender of Prohm, but there are reasons why I used the past tense a few words ago.

I want him to succeed, as that would mean our program is succeeding, but it just isn't happening and we've been trending downward for a couple of years now (I know, I know; Captain Obvious here. I jumped off the bandwagon after the FAMU debacle last season). Way too much roster turnover, whether it's early departures to the pros or expected producers transferring out.

That being written, I grew up going to college basketball games at Hilton, so ISU basketball is in my blood. The coaches and players will always have my support, and I'll always make the effort to watch them on TV whenever possible. I'll worry about potential coaching changes at the end of the season.

 

[CyCal]

His coaching abilities are clearly lacking. He brings way more negatives than positives to the table. He was handed an excellent program by the previous coach and ran it into the ground. He compares more closely to McDermott than our better coaches like Hoiberg, Floyd, and Eustachy.

I don't think that is entirely unfair. I was actually thinking about McDermott as the closest comp in my memory. I think Prohm has more positives than many people on here give him credit for. Such as his ability to find under the radar talent, bring good athletes to Ames, he is a strong ambassador for the school and program, and he has kept the team pretty scandal free which isn't nothing.

Is it enough? Probably not. You didn't actually mention any negatives, but I think the fact that his team's typically can't defend very well, struggle to score when they aren't hitting outside shots, and seem to lack consistent effort and energy at times, outweighs the positives that I mentioned.

Unless he can string together a few strong seasons I think his time here is likely limited, but as I said before I doubt he will go anywhere during this season, and I think it's probably better than 50-50 that he will be back next year just because of finances and I'm OK with that. People on here may not think so now, but we could certainly do worse than Prohm, and I would argue that two of our last three coaches WERE in fact worse (here) than he has been.

 

[Tpups21]

Maybe landing Hunter Sallis can buy Prohm a couple more years.

 

[CyCal]

I see a lot more facts than pitchforks in this thread. Do you really think this is about the loss to Iowa? That was expected all week. It’s more about the loss to South Dakota State. And Florida A&M. And Milwaukee. And a trend towards a 3rd terrible conference record in 4 years. But sure, let’s talk pluses and minuses. What are his pluses that translate into wins? Let’s talk about this post.

Yes, I do really think that this is about the loss to Iowa because it was started immediately after and everyone jumped in with piss and vinegar while still hot under the collar. I guess I haven't seen a whole lot of facts out there compared to just blind rage and people taking any cheap shot they can think of, so agree to disagree there.

To be clear, I think the minuses outweigh the pluses as well. I think he is a good recruiter with an eye for talent, I think he has brought some of the best players in school history into the program over the last five years, and I think he is a good ambassador for the school. As I've said multiple times I think his Xs and Os need work, I think he is too slow in identifying a team's strengths and weaknesses and what lineups work best together, and I don't think he is overly creative in his overall approaches or philosophies.

I guess I'm just saying lets try to keep the gloves up a little bit. We are THREE games into a season that we all knew was going to be a tough one for ISU. Some of the team's problems are self inflicted (we only have two returning players with more than two years in the program) and some of them are not (lots of preseason injuries, and a health issue that kept a guy who likely would have been our best player out for the year).

 

[Cyclone560]

I stand somewhat similarly to CyCal, there are obviously negatives, but I think there are definite positives as well.

We are in a tough spot roster wise due to turnover and that can be hard to stabilize, but I think Prohm can do it (I think this current freshman class has a lot to be excited about in terms of long term potential and is much more long term focused than short term). Obviously roster management ultimately falls on Prohm to be better, but id much rather be in the situation we are in because of early pro departures than for other reasons / simply not be getting talent into the program.

Maybe im too set in the status quo, but I do think Iowa State is a tough job in the sense you need the right fit. Reality is we haven't had many great coaches in the past and I'd rather bet on a somewhat known commodity in Prohm than moving on to another mid-major and hoping they pan out. Look at our coaching history, Eustachy only had two good years. Everyone ***** on McDermott, but look where he is now! It clearly didn't work for him in Ames, but that's part of the point even looking in hind sight that was a really good hire and it ended up being a disaster. Fred was obviously great but I think theres a very real possibility that he would have gotten himself into a very similar situation as Prohm right now with the way things were going at the end of his tenure and hes struggling at Nebraska right now too (obviously its very early there, but there also haven't been any definitive results pointing to success unless you look at recruiting, but thats also what some people think is part of the problem with Prohm right now in regards to aiming too high there).

Final point: I've seen recent talk about pointing to Iowa and saying "See that's how we should do it, 4 year guys, Iowa kids, etc." I find that kind of hilarious considering ISU has been the definitively better program up until about last year. Sometimes you get lucky, ISU got there with 4 year studs like Georges, Monte, Matt and Naz, Iowa is doing it with Garza and Bohannon, Weiskamp etc. The problem is its hard to find those guys. Back in 2018 I was seriously asking if Iowa was going to Fire Fran and I thought it would have been justified. 2 years later and now hes suddenly the model of how to build a program? They have a great team and he has done a great job in that sense, no doubt, but thats how fast some of this stuff can turn.

 

[Tornado man]

As I've said multiple times I think his Xs and Os need work, I think he is too slow in identifying a team's strengths and weaknesses and what lineups work best together, and I don't think he is overly creative in his overall approaches or philosophies.

I find this type of analysis quite confusing - just wondering: where did you play? Where have you coached?

 

[Liam4Cy]

Lighten up, Francis. We've got a ton of new players who because of COVID have been unable to build any chemistry. Veteran teams have a huge advantage this year.

Yes, it's really as simple as that.

Was COVID and experience an issue the past three years?..

2018: 4-14 (1 player on a NBA roster & #56 recruiting class)
2019: 9-9 ( 2 players on a NBA roster with a future lottery pick & #28 recruiting class)
2020: 5-13 (with a NBA lottery pick & #56 recruiting class)

 

[CyCal]

I find this type of analysis quite confusing - just wondering: where did you play? Where have you coached?

Hahaha. That's a fair point, I played mostly at the Lied but also a fair few games in State Gym. I've only coached my own video game teams so I certainly wouldn't be doing a better job if that's what you're asking.

As far as the Xs and Os and finding team chemistry that's really just my impression. It just doesn't seem like our team has been able to find its strength and then play to that strength consistently or find a way to hide its weaknesses. I put that on the Xs and Os. I'd welcome you're thoughts if you see it differently.

 

[madguy30]

Hahaha. That's a fair point, I played mostly at the Lead but also a fair few games in State Gym. I've only coached my own video game teams so I certainly wouldn't be doing a better job if that's what you're asking.

As far as the Xs and Os and finding team chemistry that's really just my impression. It just doesn't seem like our team has been able to find its strength and then play to that strength consistently or find a way to hide its weaknesses. I put that on the Xs and Os. I'd welcome you're thoughts if you see it differently.

It's easy to scrutinize the team you watch the closest but it seems like every other even average team I watch plays with so much more intent than what I see from ISU.

Even last night, they came back a bit but it was more like 'hey, I'm actually open so I'll shoot' from Iowa's bad D than ISU really working their way into the game methodically. It was the same thing vs. SDSU when they got back into it late.

 

[Macloney]

You placed a bet against the Cyclones? Sorry, your opinion about coaching is nothing, you POS.

Apparently, all the degenerates think it's super normal and acceptable to bet against a team you say you cheer for as evidenced by all the "dumb" ratings I received for questioning them on it.

Our fans have gone from being the worst group of socially awkward nerds to just embarrassing to be associated with.

 

[cycloneworld]

Yes, I do really think that this is about the loss to Iowa because it was started immediately after and everyone jumped in with piss and vinegar while still hot under the collar. I guess I haven't seen a whole lot of facts out there compared to just blind rage and people taking any cheap shot they can think of, so agree to disagree there.

To be clear, I think the minuses outweigh the pluses as well. I think he is a good recruiter with an eye for talent, I think he has brought some of the best players in school history into the program over the last five years, and I think he is a good ambassador for the school. As I've said multiple times I think his Xs and Os need work, I think he is too slow in identifying a team's strengths and weaknesses and what lineups work best together, and I don't think he is overly creative in his overall approaches or philosophies.

I guess I'm just saying lets try to keep the gloves up a little bit. We are THREE games into a season that we all knew was going to be a tough one for ISU. Some of the team's problems are self inflicted (we only have two returning players with more than two years in the program) and some of them are not (lots of preseason injuries, and a health issue that kept a guy who likely would have been our best player out for the year).

I think that’s fair and a good, rational post. You are right. NOTHING is happening in season and likely not even after the year. But I think we all see the writing on the wall. Things don’t magically turn around after Year 6.

To me, Prohm is done at Iowa State. I hope he proves me wrong but I’ve seen enough to think he won’t. He’ll probably be given this season and next to try.

 

[cycloneworld]

Apparently, all the degenerates think it's super normal and acceptable to bet against a team you say you cheer for as evidenced by all the "dumb" ratings I received for questioning them on it.

Our fans have gone from being the worst group of socially awkward nerds to just embarrassing to be associated with.

ISU fans have more visibility into their team than most pro sports bettors. If you see a crazy line line Iowa -12, why not bet it?? That’s smart.

Betting with your head and not with your heart doesn’t make you a bad fan.

 

[CyCal]

I think that’s fair and a good, rational post. You are right. NOTHING is happening in season and likely not even after the year. But I think we all see the writing on the wall. Things don’t magically turn around after Year 6.

To me, Prohm is done at Iowa State. I hope he proves me wrong but I’ve seen enough to think he won’t. He’ll probably be given this season and next to try.

See, I just have some trouble with that because I'm going to be cheering for him and his teams for the next few months and as you say, likely for a little more than a year even if things don't get better. I prefer to take more of a "Well, he needs to make a play here and start turning things around," approach. I guess I just don't get any joy out of being the first to correctly predict that a guy is going to be fired. Especially a guy I respect as a person. It's Jamie's job to figure out when we need a fresh start, and I happen to think Jamie is good at his job.

 

[cycloneworld]

See, I just have some trouble with that because I'm going to be cheering for him and his teams for the next few months and as you say, likely for a little more than a year even if things don't get better. I prefer to take more of a "Well, he needs to make a play here and start turning things around," approach. I guess I just don't get any joy out of being the first to correctly predict that a guy is going to be fired. Especially a guy I respect as a person. It's Jamie's job to figure out when we need a fresh start, and I happen to think Jamie is good at his job.

I’ll be watching and cheering too. I will never root against ISU or a team/coach. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I will be.

 

[CyCal]

I’ll be watching and cheering too. I will never root against ISU or a team/coach. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t think I will be.

For sure. Don't get me wrong. I see you're point of view, and in a way I suspect you're right. I'm just saying I personally try to keep a more optimistic mindset. I find it helps me enjoy sports more. I'm not trying to say I'll be cheering any louder than you.

 

[SECyclone]

Pretty much were we are at. Nothing is gonna change this season. Maybe next year either lol.

 

[Gunnerclone]

Apparently, all the degenerates think it's super normal and acceptable to bet against a team you say you cheer for as evidenced by all the "dumb" ratings I received for questioning them on it.

Our fans have gone from being the worst group of socially awkward nerds to just embarrassing to be associated with.

Definitely losing some identity as the fan base grows and football has gotten better.

 

[Beyerball]

Iowa has a great chance of winning the national championship next year. All the Jokes we made of Fran over the years, he put together a national contender.

Fran struck once in a generation gold with Garza...

 

[Beyerball]

Devries would be. Lot cheaper than Otz too

Devries would have no business being coach at isu...at least right now..When he wins the MVC and gets to ncaa then he can jump..Until then no.

 

[Macloney]

ISU fans have more visibility into their team than most pro sports bettors. If you see a crazy line line Iowa -12, why not bet it?? That’s smart.

Betting with your head and not with your heart doesn’t make you a bad fan.

I feel that cheering against your team, even for money, makes you a bad fan. Just my opinion.

And it's okay if we disagree about it.