Possible Decommitment

[Pat]

I thought Fred recommended CSP.

He said that after the fact. There may have even been some truth to it, but

True, but the string of serious candidates was decided by the school, and that list of candidates showed that the university was not willing to pay for a big (or even medium sized) name. Therefore, there were no "big names" sans Hornacek ever seriously mentioned.

I agree 100% with you on that it was the proper time to bring in a heavy hitter. The program's state was at a perfect spot to bring in a big hire. The university made it clear that it wasn't going to happen.

At the time I was a bit disappointed they didn't go for a big name. The university gambled with a cheap hire and it appears they may lose the gamble.

Gregg Marshall was a serious candidate - he interviewed - and was both expensive and a big name. I don’t think Hornacek was ever interested; that was a weird one. As I see it, the biggest limitation at that time was that we were looking for a coach in June instead of March.

I am a little curious about which big dollar coaches anyone thinks we could get, though, regardless of whether we fire a coach one year after making the tournament.

 

[MeowingCows]

True, but the string of serious candidates was decided by the school, and that list of candidates showed that the university was not willing to pay for a big (or even medium sized) name. Therefore, there were no "big names" sans Hornacek ever seriously mentioned.

I agree 100% with you on that it was the proper time to bring in a heavy hitter. The program's state was at a perfect spot to bring in a big hire. The university made it clear that it wasn't going to happen.

At the time I was a bit disappointed they didn't go for a big name. The university gambled with a cheap hire and it appears they may lose the gamble.

Personally, I'm okay to let Hornacek walk considering how his NBA time went, but you never know what can happen. However, I don't see something like Marshall ever happening, as he's been brought up around here a few times. He's already making a ton of money at WSU and has a good thing going on.

And this all is my problem with canning Prohm. I don't think we're in a place right now to get someone better, this seems like about the worst possible time to do this sort of thing. It looks bad on us to can Prohm given his track record, and even the down year isn't a big deal -- we aren't viewed as a program that can rebound year after year after losing large chunks of the roster. It's a matter of taking the hit for sure now, or taking the risk that it'll improve next season (and if not, taking basically the same hit then). I'm genuinely not sure what you do here when every option sucks.

 

[Sigmapolis]

A couple of you have mentioned Gregg Marshall. He ain't coming to Ames. He's turned down a LOT of opportunities at similar levels or above. He likes his situation at Wichita and is one of the top 10 paid coaches in the NCAA.

I like Forbes a lot, who is another guy mentioned. But I also agree with most of these posts that Prohm isn't going anywhere soon outside of the "get out before being sent out" strategy- (McDermott, Alford).

Forbes' name was batted around before we hired Hoiberg.

Fun thing from that era -- before McD went to Creighton, he had just brought Nick Nurse on staff away from the Iowa Energy. Nurse just won an NBA title.

Marshall makes $3.5 million at WSU and Prohm makes $2.375 million.

Coming up with that extra $1.125 million would not be simple.

 

[simply1]

Personally, I'm okay to let Hornacek walk considering how his NBA time went, but you never know what can happen. However, I don't see something like Marshall ever happening, as he's been brought up around here a few times. He's already making a ton of money at WSU and has a good thing going on.

And this all is my problem with canning Prohm. I don't think we're in a place right now to get someone better, this seems like about the worst possible time to do this sort of thing. It looks bad on us to can Prohm given his track record, and even the down year isn't a big deal -- we aren't viewed as a program that can rebound year after year after losing large chunks of the roster. It's a matter of taking the hit for sure now, or taking the risk that it'll improve next season (and if not, taking basically the same hit then). I'm genuinely not sure what you do here when every option sucks.

A Juwan Howard type with a solid assistant. Too early for niang though

 

[herbicide]

Personally, I'm okay to let Hornacek walk considering how his NBA time went, but you never know what can happen. However, I don't see something like Marshall ever happening, as he's been brought up around here a few times. He's already making a ton of money at WSU and has a good thing going on.

And this all is my problem with canning Prohm. I don't think we're in a place right now to get someone better, this seems like about the worst possible time to do this sort of thing. It looks bad on us to can Prohm given his track record, and even the down year isn't a big deal -- we aren't viewed as a program that can rebound year after year after losing large chunks of the roster. It's a matter of taking the hit for sure now, or taking the risk that it'll improve next season (and if not, taking basically the same hit then). I'm genuinely not sure what you do here when every option sucks.

100%. Pollard is certainly in a pickle right now. If Prohm doesn't right the ship, it will probably take another Orr type move (back up multiple Brinks trucks) to get a big hire.

I'm guessing we'll have a good idea by the end of this season; if Prohm manages to get 6-7 conference wins (NCAA hopes are a pipe dream with this squad) I'd say hold on. On the other hand, if we only win a few more games and have a bottom finish in B12, it may be best cut the losses and move at end of season before the damage gets worse. Yet that would go against the culture Pollard has created here.

The thing a "big hire" would get here is credibility (time) to allow time for a rebuild. An unproven name isn't going to get the same luxury.

 

[isufbcurt]

Forbes' name was batted around before we hired Hoiberg.

Fun thing from that era -- before McD went to Creighton, he had just brought Nick Nurse on staff away from the Iowa Energy. Nurse just won an NBA title.

Marshall makes $3.5 million at WSU and Prohm makes $2.375 million.

Coming up with that extra $1.125 million would not be simple.

I mean ISU has all these Big donors who like to throw their knowledge around so maybe they can come up with it.

 

[herbicide]

Forbes' name was batted around before we hired Hoiberg.

Fun thing from that era -- before McD went to Creighton, he had just brought Nick Nurse on staff away from the Iowa Energy. Nurse just won an NBA title.

Marshall makes $3.5 million at WSU and Prohm makes $2.375 million.

Coming up with that extra $1.125 million would not be simple.

I've been told by people in the know that $ is not an issue anymore for coach salary decisions.

 

[herbicide]

Forbes' name was batted around before we hired Hoiberg.

Fun thing from that era -- before McD went to Creighton, he had just brought Nick Nurse on staff away from the Iowa Energy. Nurse just won an NBA title.

Marshall makes $3.5 million at WSU and Prohm makes $2.375 million.

Coming up with that extra $1.125 million would not be simple.

Well, I might want to back up a little. I was told that "losing a coach due to $ is no longer a concern."

That's a bit different when you start factoring in buyouts.

 

[Cyched]

I've been told by people in the know that $ is not an issue anymore for coach salary decisions.

Weren’t the donors ready to give Fred a much larger salary when he left for Chicago? But Fred said not to bother, and even then they would’ve wanted more of a commitment from him.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Weren’t the donors ready to give Fred a much larger salary when he left for Chicago? But Fred said not to bother, and even then they would’ve wanted more of a commitment from him.

CW basically reported this at the time --

ISU: "Fred, if $$$ is the issue, we can fix that. We just want to know you are committed to Iowa State and do not want to go through this NBA thing every year."

Fred: "Don't bother. It's not about the $$$. It's about being an NBA coach."

 

[FinalFourCy]

Which is why we should about it AFTER or at least during NEXT season. We're over a year away from a coaching change even being a possibility.

Which is why we shouldn’t discuss it? Why’s that?

Being fired in March 2021 is possible. That’s just 14 months away, so ripe for discussion on a message board imo.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Which is why we shouldn’t discuss it? Why’s that?

Being fired in March 2020 is possible. That’s just 14 months away, so ripe for discussion on a message board imo.

You can have at it, but those 14 months are going to provide us a lot of data that could change everything -- in either direction. The available pool of recruits and potential replacements, if it comes to that, will change greatly, too.

 

[isutrevman]

Which is why we shouldn’t discuss it? Why’s that?

Being fired in March 2020 is possible. That’s just 14 months away, so ripe for discussion on a message board imo.

I think its stupid to discuss it over a full season away when we have no idea what next year's team will look like.

Should we be discussing Campbell's job security and coaching candidates for football right now, with the assumption that we'll miss bowl games the next two years?

 

[herbicide]

You can have at it, but those 14 months are going to provide us a lot of data that could change everything -- in either direction. The available pool of recruits and potential replacements, if it comes to that, will change greatly, too.

This is the most likely play, unless something drastic happens (positive or negative) in the rest of the season.

If the rest of the season is at the Iowa-FAMU level of play, and we see only 1-3 more wins, the hand might be forced.

If the ship is righted and we see even a NIT type season this year, he'll be safe until at least 2022.

 

[FinalFourCy]

You can have at it, but those 14 months are going to provide us a lot of data that could change everything -- in either direction. The available pool of recruits and potential replacements, if it comes to that, will change greatly, too.

Right, and fan sentiment can pivot accordingly.
There’s no need to hold back now. Any damage done by message board discussions, is a pimple compared to what’s on the court right now.

 

[MeowingCows]

100%. Pollard is certainly in a pickle right now. If Prohm doesn't right the ship, it will probably take another Orr type move (back up multiple Brinks trucks) to get a big hire.

I'm guessing we'll have a good idea by the end of this season; if Prohm manages to get 6-7 conference wins (NCAA hopes are a pipe dream with this squad) I'd say hold on. On the other hand, if we only win a few more games and have a bottom finish in B12, it may be best cut the losses and move at end of season before the damage gets worse. Yet that would go against the culture Pollard has created here.

The thing a "big hire" would get here is credibility (time) to allow time for a rebuild. An unproven name isn't going to get the same luxury.

I can see us getting in the 6+ range too, possibly even near .500. if Haliburton stays healthy and gets some help from Nixon or Bolton, I can totally see it happening. Particularly Bolton -- he is a good player with a useful skill of creating his own drives and shots that this team needs. He just needs to focus on working to the inside and not shooting deep. Haliburton likes to give the ball up to others and spread it around before forcing his own work, but he's shooting well from deep. He and Haliburton are good compliments of each other... if they keep working together.

There is potential on this roster, but it really is struggling to come together...and the coaching staff are the ones who need to fix it.

 

[Sigmapolis]

I can see us getting in the 6+ range too, possibly even near .500. if Haliburton stays healthy and gets some help from Nixon or Bolton, I can totally see it happening. Particularly Bolton -- he is a good player with a useful skill of creating his own drives and shots that this team needs. He just needs to focus on working to the inside and not shooting deep. Haliburton likes to give the ball up to others and spread it around before forcing his own work, but he's shooting well from deep. He and Haliburton are good compliments of each other... if they keep working together.

There is potential on this roster, but it really is struggling to come together...and the coaching staff are the ones who need to fix it.

Haliburton is an absolute stud. He's the only complete player on this roster.

Bolton and Nixon are useful in certain situations but limited/flawed in essentially opposite ways. The good news is, Nixon's limitations on offense but strength of defense covers up for the opposite of Bolton (and vice versa). You can work with that.

Jacobson, Young, and Conditt are all effective big men with different emphases, though Conditt is emerging as clearly the best of the three of them.

The other guys... sorry, but they are not Big 12 players right now.

So that equals six guys... That is not enough? What is the problem?

The problem emerges --

All the guys above are either a 1, 2, or a 5.

The guys we have playing 3 and 4 are not suited for that in the modern game, and they either are not producing much on offense playing those positions and/or they are getting hosed on defense while doing it. We are trying to shoehorn the six above into awkward lineups and/or not playing a style that would really bring out the strengths that we have.

This is why I say there is talent there, but nothing fits together. Having Horton-Tucker back, in particular, would have changed everything...

Haliburton
Bolton
Nixon
Horton-Tucker
Conditt

...that lineup is not winning the Big 12, but I would take its chances to make it to 9-9 in the conference and the NCAA tournament way more than our current.

 

[herbicide]

Haliburton is an absolute stud. He's the only complete player on this roster.

Bolton and Nixon are useful in certain situations but limited/flawed in essentially opposite ways. The good news is, Nixon's limitations on offense but strength of defense covers up for the opposite of Bolton (and vice versa). You can work with that.

Jacobson, Young, and Conditt are all effective big men with different emphases, though Conditt is emerging as clearly the best of the three of them.

The other guys... sorry, but they are not Big 12 players right now.

So that equals six guys... That is not enough? What is the problem?

The problem emerges --

All the guys above are either a 1, 2, or a 5.

The guys we have playing 3 and 4 are not suited for that in the modern game, and they either are not producing much on offense playing those positions and/or they are getting hosed on defense while doing it.

This is why I say there is talent there, but nothing fits together. Having Horton-Tucker back, in particular, would have changed everything...

Haliburton
Bolton
Nixon
Horton-Tucker
Conditt

...that lineup is not winning the Big 12, but I would take its chances to make it to 9-9 in the conference and the NCAA tournament way more than our current.

Griffin is the missing piece here. His lack of development has hurt the most IMO.

 

[Sigmapolis]

Griffin is the missing piece here. His lack of development has hurt the most IMO.

Lewis and Griffin both.

 

[FinalFourCy]

I think its stupid to discuss it over a full season away when we have no idea what next year's team will look like.

Should we be discussing Campbell's job security and coaching candidates for football right now, with the assumption that we'll miss bowl games the next two years?

To say we have no idea what next year’s team will look like (how they’ll do) is false. If you have no idea, that’s a you thing, and I’ll bet you $100k we don’t win the Big 12.

That is a very bad leap you made to CMC in December 2021, the two aren’t very analogous. but other than your bad rational, I wouldn’t hesitate to discuss it. If CMC loses to a FAMU type at home, misses a bowl, gets crushed again by Iowa, and the roster looks for a repeat in 2021, there will appropriately be talk.