Ok what am i missing with our recruiting?

[Clones85']

I would be willing to wager they saw more then tape. They most likely were down in Florida in the fall and/or spring and evaluated him in person, but hey since Rivals hasn't heard of him that is way more important (sarcasm intended).

Nobody cares about rivals. People care about other colleges though. Do you think Rhoads and staff are the only ones that were tipped off to Tyler Brown? Of course not. But they are the only school to offer. That is important. Doesn't mean the kid can't play though

 

[klerme]

I would say its fair to judge a kid RIGHT NOW by what his other offers were and by a respected recruiting website says about a kid....i dont think thats out of line at all. I mean if you want to judge them all as great because the messiah CPR recruited them, and he can do no wrong in your eyes....thats ok too. We just dont all operate that way.

I disagree. Here is the simplest explanation and I am using a Chizik class so that I can't be considered a CPR apologist: In 2007, our recruiting class featured 3 players that have/will be playing in the NFL, including a 1st round and 2nd round draft choice - James Carpenter (2 star), Kelechi Osemele (3 star), and Collin Franklin (2 star). Between the 3, rivals showed 1 total other BCS offer (to Osemele). That same year, Allen Bell, DB, had 6 other BCS offers; Curtiz Mathis, LB, Wallace Franklin, WR, and JJ Bass, RB, had 4 other BCS offers; Joe McMahon, OL, had 3; Randy Kellman had 2.

This happens every year. Knott and Klein have been referenced. Tom Farniok had 0 other BCS offers.

Also, please spend 5 minutes to look at Rivals and see how many recruits we always have by the end of June and how many have multiple BCS offers. This year is on a better pace than most.

 

[Clones85']

I disagree. Here is the simplest explanation and I am using a Chizik class so that I can't be considered a CPR apologist: In 2007, our recruiting class featured 3 players that have/will be playing in the NFL, including a 1st round and 2nd round draft choice - James Carpenter (2 star), Kelechi Osemele (3 star), and Collin Franklin (2 star). Between the 3, rivals showed 1 total other BCS offer (to Osemele). That same year, Allen Bell, DB, had 6 other BCS offers; Curtiz Mathis, LB, Wallace Franklin, WR, and JJ Bass, RB, had 4 other BCS offers; Joe McMahon, OL, had 3; Randy Kellman had 2.

This happens every year. Knott and Klein have been referenced. Tom Farniok had 0 other BCS offers.

Also, please spend 5 minutes to look at Rivals and see how many recruits we always have by the end of June and how many have multiple BCS offers. This year is on a better pace than most.

James Carpenter had zero offers b/c he wasn't going to make grades, not b/c he wasn't good. He never even showed up to Iowa State. Chizik took a flyer on him and it didn't pay out. The kid ended up going to Bama and winning a national title so it's not like people didn't know about him

 

[isulive2train]

Good. We have a couple 3 star guys and a couple guys that didn't have recruiting profiles or rankings until we got their commitment.and those profile rankings don't mean ****.

What were Jake Knott and AJ Klein rated?

There isn't a ranking system for awesomeness.

 

[cyclonebillski]

All of these guys were 2 star recruits. Most will have a shot at the nfl or are already there. I think historically our 2 stars are our best players. I realize that for every successful guy there are 2 that don't pan out but that is some great production from 2 stars over 4 yrs.

Knott future nfl
Klein future nfl
Lenz great production and shot at nfl

Sims nfl player
Van Der Kamp shot at nfl
Aaron Horne big 12 newcomer of the yr last yr
Gary very productive after suspension
Farniok solid and possible nfl
Reeves best cover corner and would be 1st rd if he was taller
Haughton would have been nfl player
Burris solid
Rump solid

 

[mt85]

Nobody cares about rivals. People care about other colleges though. Do you think Rhoads and staff are the only ones that were tipped off to Tyler Brown? Of course not. But they are the only school to offer. That is important. Doesn't mean the kid can't play though

You either trust the people that you hired to do this job or you don't. The only way to evaluate their ability is based on results over time. If Paul Rhoads let other schools offers effect his evaluation then he never would have offered Jake Knott.

It would be nice to have a fan base that welcomed new recruits that have chosen be to all in as Cyclones as opposed to a bunch of whiners that question our coaches based on recruiting sites and offers.

I don't care how many offers a kid has. I care whether our coaches are successful over time. The only way we will know if our coaches are good at evaluating talent is to give them time and see how it plays out. The endless ******* gets really old, and has diminished the quality of this site. It has become a mecca for people that get a payoff from complaining about everything in life.

 

[dualthreat]

I don't really know why recruits sign so early anyway. They must be under a considerable amount of pressure from the coaching staffs'.

If I were a kid who had only 1 offer, but hadn't played my senior year, I think I would wait and see what else came a long before committing anywhere. Besides, its better than pulling what cqulin hulbert did.

 

[dualthreat]

I don't really know why recruits sign so early anyway. They must be under a considerable amount of pressure from the coaching staffs'.

If I were a kid who had only 1 offer, but hadn't played my senior year, I think I would wait and see what else came a long before committing anywhere. Besides, its better than pulling what cqulin hulbert did.

 

[heitclone]

You either trust the people that you hired to do this job or you don't. The only way to evaluate their ability is based on results over time. If Paul Rhoads let other schools offers effect his evaluation then he never would have offered Jake Knott.

It would be nice to have a fan base that welcomed new recruits that have chosen be to all in as Cyclones as opposed to a bunch of whiners that question our coaches based on recruiting sites and offers.

I don't care how many offers a kid has. I care whether our coaches are successful over time. The only way we will know if our coaches are good at evaluating talent is to give them time and see how it plays out. The endless ******* gets really old, and has diminished the quality of this site. It has become a mecca for people that get a payoff from complaining about everything in life.[/QUOTE]

That sounds like the internet to me, I don't think they guys complaining are any worse than the blind faith homers that assume every player that CPR offers is going to be the next Jake Knott.

 

[DeereClone]

The talent level is slowly imoroving IMO. Rhoads has done a good job overall.

In order for us to continue to improve talent, we need to have a few 6-8 win seasons with some big wins, bowl victories, etc.

I like to use Kirk's model at Iowa as one of building a program to a good level. Implement a system, find kids that fit the system, pull of a few upsets, continue to win 6-9 games per year, and slowly upgrade the talent.

Obviously, he may have hit a plateau recently, but you get my point.

 

[Clones85']

You either trust the people that you hired to do this job or you don't. The only way to evaluate their ability is based on results over time. If Paul Rhoads let other schools offers effect his evaluation then he never would have offered Jake Knott.

It would be nice to have a fan base that welcomed new recruits that have chosen be to all in as Cyclones as opposed to a bunch of whiners that question our coaches based on recruiting sites and offers.

I don't care how many offers a kid has. I care whether our coaches are successful over time. The only way we will know if our coaches are good at evaluating talent is to give them time and see how it plays out. The endless ******* gets really old, and has diminished the quality of this site. It has become a mecca for people that get a payoff from complaining about everything in life.

Hmmm. You are at one end of the extreme as well. I love Paul Rhoads. I trust him more than any other football coach we've had at Iowa State. I'm simply saying that people that worry about our recruits lack of offers have a legit reason to worry. Teams that recruit poorly don't win. If you follow college recruiting enough you see that.

We as a fanbase have been saying for the past decade that recruiting rankings don't matter, other offers don't matter, and just to trust the coaches. Well, guess what? recruiting is the #1 most important thing in coaching and it does matter. If you don't have players you don't have a chance. Especially in the Big 12. We have seen that.

Can we as fans do anything about it? No. But come on man, this is a message board. People will be question all kinds of things and worry about things they shouldn't worry about. It shouldn't come as a surprise.

 

[Clones85']

I don't really know why recruits sign so early anyway. They must be under a considerable amount of pressure from the coaching staffs'.

If I were a kid who had only 1 offer, but hadn't played my senior year, I think I would wait and see what else came a long before committing anywhere. Besides, its better than pulling what cqulin hulbert did.

The kids don't sign early. They won't sign until Feb

 

[Rural]

I am also surprised by the non-rated guys this early in the recruiting season. There must be something about these guys the coaches are seeing that recruiting gurus and other coaches are not. If our coaches are correct, I would expect some of these lower or non-ranked guys to suddenly be more desirable to other teams this Fall.

The highlighted is why threads like this exist. Biggest scam since faith-healers.

 

[mt85]

Hmmm. You are at one end of the extreme as well. I love Paul Rhoads. I trust him more than any other football coach we've had at Iowa State. I'm simply saying that people that worry about our recruits lack of offers have a legit reason to worry. Teams that recruit poorly don't win. If you follow college recruiting enough you see that.

We as a fanbase have been saying for the past decade that recruiting rankings don't matter, other offers don't matter, and just to trust the coaches. Well, guess what? recruiting is the #1 most important thing in coaching and it does matter. If you don't have players you don't have a chance. Especially in the Big 12. We have seen that.

Can we as fans do anything about it? No. But come on man, this is a message board. People will be question all kinds of things and worry about things they shouldn't worry about. It shouldn't come as a surprise.

Hows that paying off for ya? Did you get a rush out of one more complaint?

 

[BigLame]

We have more guys committed now than any time in the last 4 years. Okay, three 3-stars, one 2-star, and 2 non-rateds. Other programs may come prodding and trying to poach, the rating goes up. More than likely this is a result of the kid having a very good (or better) senior season. No one tries to poach but the latter happens, the nice rating may go up too. Just keep in mind CPR has a plan, and these recruits look to have some measureables the staff has identified. Last year's class was the largest by far, in particular the players' height. The lbs can be added as they enter the programs S&C. The DB & RB are 5'10", & the rest are 6'2" or taller. The JUCO TE has more size that one would expect for a player to play the position at, & that is expected of a JUCO player - more mature & (hopefully) ready to help out immediately on the field.

Rhoads, the Burnhams, & the rest of the staff have not been ones to mince words, and they say, again, that this season's team will be the most athletic one they have yet to put on the field for a season, and I believe it. Will they be able to make the football plays & execute as whole? That is what remains to be seen. I have really enjoyed keeping tabs on how Rhoads' recruiting classes have shaken out. It appears they are well-executed and thought-out plans, not the ramshackle mess it appeared to be (and was) under McCarney. I think Chizik was good at implementing recruiting plans, but where he lacked was coaching - practices (fundamentals) and executing game plans and managing games. So we do not have a slew of 4-stars by the end of June. Sorry to those that were expecting that. However, there is a lot of time for this class to fill out, and I have a feeling it will have more surprises than we have had in quite a while.

 

[heitclone]

All of these guys were 2 star recruits. Most will have a shot at the nfl or are already there. I think historically our 2 stars are our best players. I realize that for every successful guy there are 2 that don't pan out but that is some great production from 2 stars over 4 yrs.

Knott future nfl
Klein future nfl
Lenz great production and shot at nfl

Sims nfl player
Van Der Kamp shot at nfl
Aaron Horne big 12 newcomer of the yr last yr
Gary very productive after suspension
Farniok solid and possible nfl
Reeves best cover corner and would be 1st rd if he was taller
Haughton would have been nfl player
Burris solid
Rump solid

I agree, we've gotten great production out of 2* guys but we've also seen that there is a limit to what kind of team we can have built on guys like this. If we want to get over the 6-6ish hump, talent has to upgraded. I think this is an example of just how much more difficult it is to build a football program vs basketball. Obviously having more schollies to fill makes a difference but there are other factors as well. Freddie was able to get some serious momentum going after 1 NCAA appearance, that may have Cyclone fans spoiled and expecting CPR to make the same kind of progress but its not that simple.

 

[Clones85']

Hows that paying off for ya?

How's what paying off for me? I'm not the one worrying. I'm simply saying that others shouldn't jump on the OP for worrying about our recruits.

 

[Rabbuk]

Hows that paying off for ya? Did you get a rush out of one more complaint?

Paul?

 

[Tre4ISU]

He didn't start on that team. Darks did. Reynolds did until he broke his leg. Hamilton did who I wasn't a huge fan of but he has produced more than anyone we have now not named Lenz. Seriously what WR of ours this year has shown to be any better than Darks was going into that year? Hamilton? They haven't. Going into that year we thought Darius Darks was going to break every ISU WR record there was.

Arob would start over White. White is the guy as of right now
KO starts over anyone. Lamaak starts. Haughton starts. Stephens starts.
Arnaud starts?
Lyle would be our best DE this year
Sims and Washington are a push. That's coming directly from the mouth of a defensive coach
Leonard starts
Kennard Banks probably doesn't start over Reeves
Collin Franklin starts

So some guys would start from 2009. Some from this year. It's a push. Like I said. Talent isn't that different in the 1st group. It's the talent on the 2nd and 3rd teams that is knight and day.

WR-This is just my opinion but the talent is much better now than then. We can look at offers if you want. Harris, West, Bundrage, Ecby, West (the big one) all had solid offers.

You took one of the Dlineman and Lyle would be close with Maggitt IMO. Kennard Banks wouldn't crack the two deeps on this roster, IMO. Watson, Richardson and Lynn are all going to be better and those guys are young.

My argument kind of sucks because a lot of the guys i have mentioned haven't even had the chance to prove themselves yet but they will.

 

[acgclone]

I get why some people are worried. We have 6 recruits that have 2 BCS offers between them, according to Rivals. Iowas's recruits may not have a lot more stars but way more offers that do matter unlike stars. When you recruit near the bottom of the conference about .500 is the best you can expect even if you have a very good coach lik CPR.

I know we'll never finish in the top 3 in recruiting, but we at least need to get near the middle if we expect better than 6-7 wins.

History has shown us that ISU is simply not capable of being in the middle of the conference form a recruiting standpoint which is what I worry about.

We have the best possoble coach for ISU and he can't even land a middle of he pack recruiting class after some huge upsets and decent momentum. The bottom line is that it's tough as hell (next to impossible) to recruit Ames unfortunately