***Official St. Louis Cardinals Thread***

[Kaner04]

Gonna get this started since I don’t think anybody’s made one since last year. Interested to hear thoughts on the direction the organization is going in.

They want to focus on getting youth playing time and they’ve kind of took steps toward that but they’ve also haven’t. They still have Matz and Mikolas taking rotation spots (although I think Matz will be in the bullpen). Gray and Contreras were approached to see if they wanted to be traded and they want to stay. Helsley and Fedde have been held onto. Goldy not resigned, Arenado trade rumors are ramping up again. Contreras move to 1B allows Herrera and Pages to be the tandem at C. The hold up that in my opinion needs to happen is the Arenado trade. There’s a snowball effect of that move to get more young guys time. It allows Gorman to get the 600 at bats the organization wants at his natural position, Donavan everyday 2B, Nootbaar in LF (better corner outfielder than CF), mix between Scott/Siani in CF, and Walker everyday at bats in RF, Burleson a split between 1B/DH/OF, Saggese regular at bats. As far as pitchers go, McGreevy needs to be given 150+ innings as a starter (which is why I think Matz will be in the bullpen). We’ll see Quinn Matthews early this year too if he continues to excel in AAA. Tink Hence, health willing, will see time at the end of the year. So they’re still kind of still stuck in neutral of this “reset” with Arenado still on the team and when he moves then I think they’re headed in the direction they want. This year is all about seeing what these young guys have and if it’s something Chain Bloom can build on right away or he has a lot of work to do.

 

[StateThrowdown]

Thanks for starting the thread.

This season will be interesting. I don’t expect them to sniff the playoffs let alone compete for the division, I just want to see consistent improvement throughout the year. That said, I expect pitching to be pretty atrocious. I mean, for gods sake Miles is still in a starting spot. What I’m really hoping to see is good fielding and improved hitting.

A lot of Cardinal fans online are furious at them for doing nothing. Honestly, I don’t really blame the Dewitt’s for holding. For one, there’s absolutely no way a small market team is going to go toe to toe with the Dodgers. That’s and arms race they just can’t win, period. And two, I think people really under estimate just how big of a deal all the uncertainty with the RSN’s is. To bring it back to Iowa State, can you imagine what Jamie would do if the tv powers that be just told him “We’re not sure how much, or if we’ll be paying you”? He’d ratchet down the purse strings something fierce. So no, I don’t blame them for standing pat while they see how it’s all going to shake out.

 

[TomTreebow]

Biggest thing for me this year is Walker. If he can get back on the track he was on his rookie year then I am still bullish on the future with him, Winn, and Wetherholt coming up. Really like those 3 together as Winn and Wetherholt should provide athleticism and defense up the middle in addition to what they can do at the plate. But need a big bat like Walker (or Gorman) to let everything fall into place.

Then I really hope Pallante continues his pace from last year, Liberatore settles in as a solid reliever and we get to see Mathews and Hence at some point. Still a long ways to go on the pitching front but that 5th overall pick in the summer may be able to help there.

 

[throwittoblythe]

Gonna get this started since I don’t think anybody’s made one since last year. Interested to hear thoughts on the direction the organization is going in.

They want to focus on getting youth playing time and they’ve kind of took steps toward that but they’ve also haven’t. They still have Matz and Mikolas taking rotation spots (although I think Matz will be in the bullpen). Gray and Contreras were approached to see if they wanted to be traded and they want to stay. Helsley and Fedde have been held onto. Goldy not resigned, Arenado trade rumors are ramping up again. Contreras move to 1B allows Herrera and Pages to be the tandem at C. The hold up that in my opinion needs to happen is the Arenado trade. There’s a snowball effect of that move to get more young guys time. It allows Gorman to get the 600 at bats the organization wants at his natural position, Donavan everyday 2B, Nootbaar in LF (better corner outfielder than CF), mix between Scott/Siani in CF, and Walker everyday at bats in RF, Burleson a split between 1B/DH/OF, Saggese regular at bats. As far as pitchers go, McGreevy needs to be given 150+ innings as a starter (which is why I think Matz will be in the bullpen). We’ll see Quinn Matthews early this year too if he continues to excel in AAA. Tink Hence, health willing, will see time at the end of the year. So they’re still kind of still stuck in neutral of this “reset” with Arenado still on the team and when he moves then I think they’re headed in the direction they want. This year is all about seeing what these young guys have and if it’s something Chain Bloom can build on right away or he has a lot of work to do.

Never felt like this before in my life: I just don’t care. I came of age during the McGwire years and then experienced the Pujols era. Went to at least one game a year and probably watched 70-80.

MLB makes it too hard to consume their product in Iowa. I used to pay for MLB.TV and a VPN so I could watch. Just too much work so I stopped trying.

Them sucking for the last few years hasn’t helped. Bet I couldn’t name 5 players on the roster.

 

[Kaner04]

Thanks for starting the thread.

This season will be interesting. I don’t expect them to sniff the playoffs let alone compete for the division, I just want to see consistent improvement throughout the year. That said, I expect pitching to be pretty atrocious. I mean, for gods sake Miles is still in a starting spot. What I’m really hoping to see is good fielding and improved hitting.

A lot of Cardinal fans online are furious at them for doing nothing. Honestly, I don’t really blame the Dewitt’s for holding. For one, there’s absolutely no way a small market team is going to go toe to toe with the Dodgers. That’s and arms race they just can’t win, period. And two, I think people really under estimate just how big of a deal all the uncertainty with the RSN’s is. To bring it back to Iowa State, can you imagine what Jamie would do if the tv powers that be just told him “We’re not sure how much, or if we’ll be paying you”? He’d ratchet down the purse strings something fierce. So no, I don’t blame them for standing pat while they see how it’s all going to shake out.

I think some Cardinals fans don’t get what the organization is doing and can’t wrap their mind around the idea of not trying to get to the playoffs. It’s the Cardinals after all, they’re supposed to be trying for the World Series year in and out. But for one time in the last 20 years they’re holding pat, not adding money to the books, and not really going after 90+ wins. So fans are confused and mad at no free agent moves, but the front office has told fans to their faces “we’re cutting payroll, and looking for ways to get young guys playing time”. It’s all a setup to allow Chaim Bloom a clear runway for his tenure as Director of Baseball Operations.

 

[Kaner04]

Never felt like this before in my life: I just don’t care. I came of age during the McGwire years and then experienced the Pujols era. Went to at least one game a year and probably watched 70-80.

MLB makes it too hard to consume their product in Iowa. I used to pay for MLB.TV and a VPN so I could watch. Just too much work so I stopped trying.

Them sucking for the last few years hasn’t helped. Bet I couldn’t name 5 players on the roster.

Well they’re hopefully fixing the too hard to consume problem. Cardinals will be on a streaming service that won’t have blackouts. Fanduel sports network will broadcast their games direct to consumer. Price hasn’t been set yet but I think the Twins is around $20 dollars a month.

 

[Kaner04]

Biggest thing for me this year is Walker. If he can get back on the track he was on his rookie year then I am still bullish on the future with him, Winn, and Wetherholt coming up. Really like those 3 together as Winn and Wetherholt should provide athleticism and defense up the middle in addition to what they can do at the plate. But need a big bat like Walker (or Gorman) to let everything fall into place.

Then I really hope Pallante continues his pace from last year, Liberatore settles in as a solid reliever and we get to see Mathews and Hence at some point. Still a long ways to go on the pitching front but that 5th overall pick in the summer may be able to help there.

There are questions that need to be answered this year and one of them is can Walker get back to his rookie year performance and build from there. His inability to hit anything but a ground ball last year was frustrating. He was really enthused about his offseason and the coming year at the Winter Warmup. He’s a massive human being and theoretically should be a 40+ HR a year guy, but maybe he’s just not that. He’s like Matt Holliday to me. 25-30 HRs, tons of line drives and some get over the fence.

Another is Gorman. He simply can’t strike out at a 40% clip. His aim needs to be Kyle Schwarber lite. 30+ HRs, .330 OBP, walk a little more.

 

[StateThrowdown]

There are questions that need to be answered this year and one of them is can Walker get back to his rookie year performance and build from there. His inability to hit anything but a ground ball last year was frustrating. He was really enthused about his offseason and the coming year at the Winter Warmup. He’s a massive human being and theoretically should be a 40+ HR a year guy, but maybe he’s just not that. He’s like Matt Holliday to me. 25-30 HRs, tons of line drives and some get over the fence.

Another is Gorman. He simply can’t strike out at a 40% clip. His aim needs to be Kyle Schwarber lite. 30+ HRs, .330 OBP, walk a little more.

I feel like I’ve lost complete faith in Walker and Gorman. I hope they prove me wrong.

 

[TClone99]

I think some Cardinals fans don’t get what the organization is doing and can’t wrap their mind around the idea of not trying to get to the playoffs. It’s the Cardinals after all, they’re supposed to be trying for the World Series year in and out. But for one time in the last 20 years they’re holding pat, not adding money to the books, and not really going after 90+ wins. So fans are confused and mad at no free agent moves, but the front office has told fans to their faces “we’re cutting payroll, and looking for ways to get young guys playing time”. It’s all a setup to allow Chaim Bloom a clear runway for his tenure as Director of Baseball Operations.

If you don’t think your team is in a position to compete this year then you need to trade any assets that aren’t going to be around for your next competitive team for prospects that will build the farm system. Holding onto Helsley makes no sense to me. Gray should be traded as well but he has no trade rights so that’s a little trickier. This organization needs more currency moving for award so now’s the time to save money and acquire controllable talent.

 

[StateThrowdown]

If you don’t think your team is in a position to compete this year then you need to trade any assets that aren’t going to be around for your next competitive team for prospects that will build the farm system. Holding onto Helsley makes no sense to me. Gray should be traded as well but he has no trade rights so that’s a little trickier. This organization needs more currency moving for award so now’s the time to save money and acquire controllable talent.

Agree with the bolded. What they’re saying in some of the articles and podcasts is that they weren’t able to get nearly as much for Helsley as they wanted. Sounds like they’re hoping he performs well again this season and they can get more for him near the trade deadline.

 

[matclone]

I don't remember ever walking into a Cardinals season where the goal was not to win games. In that sense I'm pretty disappointed.

 

[throwittoblythe]

I don't remember ever walking into a Cardinals season where the goal was not to win games. In that sense I'm pretty disappointed. I'm not buying the the "we're rebuilding" schtick.

Imagine you run a business that produces a high quality product with strong customer support.

Now imagine you lower the quality of your products (and your costs) but the customer support remains unchanged.

This is how the Dewitt’s view it. It’s a business. Fans still showing up even with a poor product on the field. Why would they bother spending more money on the team?

 

[Kaner04]

I feel like I’ve lost complete faith in Walker and Gorman. I hope they prove me wrong.

It’s definitely a make or break year for Gorman. If he can’t be productive this year there isn’t hope. Walkers still only 22 so he’ll have more chances.

 

[Kaner04]

If you don’t think your team is in a position to compete this year then you need to trade any assets that aren’t going to be around for your next competitive team for prospects that will build the farm system. Holding onto Helsley makes no sense to me. Gray should be traded as well but he has no trade rights so that’s a little trickier. This organization needs more currency moving for award so now’s the time to save money and acquire controllable talent.

I think they went into the offseason wanting to explore trades for everybody. Contreras and Gray both said they’re happy to stay and WANT to stay. Arenado didn’t request a trade but was open to one when Mo approached him. So I think Mozeilak saw it as an opportunity to kind of, in my opinion, give it one more go and see if things click with young guys. So Fedde was retained even though he’d fetch a nice prospect haul, and same with Helsely of course

 

[Kaner04]

Agree with the bolded. What they’re saying in some of the articles and podcasts is that they weren’t able to get nearly as much for Helsley as they wanted. Sounds like they’re hoping he performs well again this season and they can get more for him near the trade deadline.

Well if you see the haul the Brewers got for Devin Williams, it wasn’t very impressive for a relief pitcher as good as him. If you wait til the deadline you’ll get major prospects from a contending team

 

[swiacy]

Saw Walker in Jupiter two years ago. Large human with tools. Imagine he’s had all kinds of hired hitting coaches get into his head since then. Hard enough hitting MLB 100 mph heaters & 93 mph sliders and then trying to adjust approach with some hitting guru chirping in your ear. Hope he can shut all that, relax & mash. Gorman suffers from the same pressure.

 

[throwittoblythe]

Saw Walker in Jupiter two years ago. Large human with tools. Imagine he’s had all kinds of hired hitting coaches get into his head since then. Hard enough hitting MLB 100 mph heaters & 93 mph sliders and then trying to adjust approach with some hitting guru chirping in your ear. Hope he can shut all that, relax & mash. Gorman suffers from the same pressure.

Joe Maddon's book was very enlightening on this topic. He talked a lot about how metrics and business people have taken over the game. FWIW, he was one of the first advanced analytics coaches, but he advocates a balanced approach to data and feel. The data tell you trends on a large scale (over the course of a season or career), but they don't tell you how that player will perform that day. What he says has happened is it's all analytics driven and there's no room for "feel of the game."

So I'm sure there's some truth in what you stated with hitters. Their coaches might say "You mash this guy's fastball, so lay off the soft stuff and wait for the fastball." But if the hitter is a little slow that particular day and the pitcher has his best stuff, the data is telling you the opposite of what you should do.

 

[Kaner04]

Well the Red Sox seemed like the team most interested in Arenado but kept asking the Cardinals to pitch in more money to pay salary. Now they’ve gotten Bregman so who does Arenado go to now

 

[deadeyededric]

What does the Cards farm system look like nowadays? I assume they are still one of the best run franchises in baseball

 

[Kaner04]

What does the Cards farm system look like nowadays? I assume they are still one of the best run franchises in baseball

Eh they’re middle of the pack when it comes to farm system. They always produce pretty good major league guys but haven’t produced a super star in a while. Role player/fine starter bats and backend rotation starters has been it for a while now. Since they’ve been pretty middling the past few years they’ve actually gotten a couple top 10 picks for the first time in 20+ years. Of course in baseball there’s no such thing as a guarantee when it comes to prospects.

They fell pretty far behind in terms of the scouting and developing department and spent this entire offseason hiring a bunch of new coaches the scouting department. Chaim Bloom is taking over for John Mozeilak as President of Baseball Operations after this year. Bloom’s known for building strong farm systems. Because they fell so far behind with development they’ve tried to fix it in free agency and has definitely not worked out well there. Lots of bad contracts given out to older players that don’t perform